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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Adam's sin...our guilt?

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 Re:

[color=000000]

Quote:
I leave you with this simple question:If you can see your way clear to understand if you are born again that, by faith, you carry about in you the same Nature Jesus possessed. What does that make you?

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Dead to sin, self and the world, and alive unto God!

You mean to say there is no divinity in you?[/color]

 2009/5/11 9:33









 Re: Adam;s sin ... our guilt?

Hi Intense,

Quote:
You mean to say there is no divinity in you?

Intersting question!

I thought you might be hoping I'd say simply (in reply to your question) 'a son of God', but since I wasn't sure what you'd take from that, I didn't. I also rejected 'born again' as a possible reply. Now, I'm glad of both rejections, because I wouldn't say that being a 'son of God' confers 'divinity' into me. As Peter explains, we, who believe, have been made partakers of the divine nature. 2 Pet 1:4. That's why I've previously quoted the verses about the 'one Spirit' (into which we have been made to drink, for instance).

Do you consider 'holy', and 'divine' interchangeably in your thinking? (The difference between those two is vital.) Please could you clarify this for me? Thanks!

 2009/5/11 9:51









 Re:

[color=000000]

Quote:
Alive-to-God wrote: Hi Intense,
Quote:
You mean to say there is no divinity in you?

Interesting question! I thought you might be hoping I'd say simply (in reply to your question) 'a son of God', but since I wasn't sure what you'd take from that, I didn't. I also rejected 'born again' as a possible reply. Now, I'm glad of both rejections, because I wouldn't say that being a 'son of God' confers 'divinity' into me. As Peter explains, we, who believe, have been made partakers of the divine nature. 2 Pet 1:4.

But isn't Peter in that verse declaring that we do possess divinity? What is the Nature of God if not a divine Nature? In this I am endeavoring to strike a similarity between us and Jesus before His Transfiguration.
Quote:
That's why I've previously quoted the verses about the 'one Spirit' (into which we have been made to drink, for instance).


Yes and lets not overlook the part where we have been "made" to drink of it, as it pertains to: "filling up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church" Colossians 1:24 (KJV)

I am not trying to trip you up to destabilize you but to offer a perspective that will more fully sustain our faith and that by seeing our privilege in the Father not unlike Jesus viewed His, who "for the JOY [and vision] set before Him endured the cross". Our cross is, our flesh, the avenue to the world. We take it up every day, don't we?

Having said that: You are, in your present thinking, denying that the Nature of God within you, as being a divine Nature, the same Nature as Jesus had when He was born. His reception of it being of the physical while ours by faith however, it is no less vitally the Father's. Now, we can see that the Nature of the Father was imputed to Him, was also the Father's Character or did He learn it? Here: "And the child grew, and waxed strong in spirit, filled with wisdom: and the *grace of God was upon him." Luke 2:40 (KJV)

* Note: It says "grace of God was UPON Him" and not the Holy Ghost. Anything that was of the Father was IN Him or would be in Him in time, thirty years of it. During this 30 year time frame Jesus learned obedience that when He needed to obey, He could and would. [In this we might even see that Mary no doubt, had a very significant role to play in His life as His Mother, her being seen now as, a type a "Church" whose responsibility it is to groom for service those "chosen" of God.] That time came when He would be equipped to function in mimistry by the Baptism, power, of the Holy Ghost..
Quote:
Do you consider 'holy', and 'divine' interchangeably in your thinking? (The difference between those two is vital.) Please could you clarify this for me? Thanks!

No I don't. There were too many "holy " men of old who were not divine however, divinity functioned FROM them as the Spirit of God moved upon them. Don't you find it interesting that these men of renown, Prophets of old, were never indwelt of the Holy Ghost? God was with them and UPON them however, His Nature was never in them. Can you begin to see that, by the indwelling we have, something greater that might come from us when we learn to obey God. Jesus said as much. With JOY and Vision we will walk as He walked. He said so. (John 17)[/color]

 2009/5/11 10:57
clintstone
Member



Joined: 2008/4/20
Posts: 201
tulsa,ok.

 Re:

JESUS NEVER BECAME SIN [ ANETHEMA ] noone speaking by the HOLY GHOST can call Jesus accursed [ anethema , in the greek ]. if JESUS BECAME SIN ,, as we did HE would have seen corruption , and HE WOULD HAVE BEEN ACCURSED [ anethema ] . All of E . W . KENYONS DISCIPLES - kenneth hagin and copeland teach this but the BIBLE SAYS something quite different . JESUS BECAME A SIN OFFERING < HE NEVER BECAME SIN . Jesus did take the penalty of sin away from us by THE BREAKING OF HIS BODY AND THE SHEDDING OF HIS BLOOD ,, not by going to hell and certainly not by dying spiritually .


_________________
Clint Demoret

 2009/5/11 18:10Profile
clintstone
Member



Joined: 2008/4/20
Posts: 201
tulsa,ok.

 Re:

I know that we are baptised into the death of Jesus , this baptism happens when we are baptised into Jesus , correct ? Yes . So since we are baptised into Jesus and in HIS death , Jesus death is not the same as our because we already are dead SPIRITUALLY before we are baptised into HIM .. this death that Jesus bore , HE BORE IT EVERY DAY ,and culminated on the crossed, and HE finished this death , on the cross . the death jesus bore was not spiritual death, in hell,, and he had to become as us in this manner. because we were this way ,, .. If this was the case why would we need to be Baptised into the same thing we already were ? . Romans Chapter 6 :3- 11 is speaking of the cross we carry daily , unitied with Him because it is a babtism of dying to sin , not a DYING IN SIN . Jesus did not die IN SIN .He died to it every day by denying His flesh and Himself and lived to God as father and He as Son , This is gospel good news . God Bless all who read this post . hope it causes you to think , about this faulse doctrine of Christ bacoming as we ,, A SINNER


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Clint Demoret

 2009/5/11 18:41Profile









 Re:

Two great "true to scripture" posts, Clintstone

 2009/5/11 19:29
clintstone
Member



Joined: 2008/4/20
Posts: 201
tulsa,ok.

 Re:

I do not like it much , that many in the faith , get divided , by leaning to thier own thinking . I have heard it said that philthiness of flesh is against ourselves , and that philthiness of soul is against others , and that philthiness of spirit is believing a lie is the truth, and vice versa. If we would keep things simple , BY FEARING GOD , then God BY HIS WORD , JESUS ] will make us wise . Everywhere that division happens in the Body of Christ is because of heresy . I have a vision and that vision is Christ . I am so glad that the rock has opened for me and that the water gushes out like a river in high places. The sinking sand sinks and it is sad that the peoples are like the ocean that is bound by the sand . I for one fear God to much to ever , misrepresent Jesus by saying more than what scripture and nature say of Him . thank you for agreeing with my last 2 posts ,. God Bless you richly , Clint


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Clint Demoret

 2009/5/11 20:12Profile
ceedub
Member



Joined: 2009/5/1
Posts: 215
Canada

 Re:

I already brought up Bunyan and Pilgrim's Progress, specifically the part about the dusty room that needed to be swept. The choking dust and the water that was sprinkled.

Is there any connection between this story and the verse in Romans 7 that speaks of the strength of sin being the law?

Can the gospel's power over sin be shown from many different angles, ie the effects of forgiveness, not being under the law, empowering of the Spirit etc.?

And if there's no interest I've a few questions about angels and pinheads I'd like to throw out there.

 2009/5/11 23:35Profile









 Re: Adam's sin...our guilt?

Quote:

ceedub wrote:
I'm brand new here but this looks like a great place to discuss. I'm curious if there's any others out there who have a problem as I do with the extent that some (even many commentators that I really admire) take the doctrine of original sin to. By that, I understand that there is a far reaching effect that includes death, the sin nature and imminent condemnation but for the grace of God. But too many passages indicate that God doesn't pass guilt until we ourselves sin.

I understand and agree with Cov't headship, but not to the degree that we are held guilty for the same crimes committed by the head. ie: Germans under Hitler were judged with many consequences that their leader brought them under, yet no one would hold them individually guilty for the same crimes.

I'm speaking on Romans 5:12 -21 in the near future and was wondering if there were any thoughts on this widely disputed topic?




This thread was your initiation Brother.

GOD BLESS YOU AND WELCOME!

:-)

 2009/5/11 23:45
ceedub
Member



Joined: 2009/5/1
Posts: 215
Canada

 Re:

Thanks. As I've said before, I can't say enough good about this site and all it has here. Most impressed with the many people on it that share their knowledge and wisdom.

But it's a real question.

I guess it's something I think on more as I get older, that being what sanctification really is. It seems as though Bunyan nails it (man I love that book) by showing a room full of dust from frantic sweeping that brings about the opposite effect the original efforts intended.

I don't think it's a coincidence that it was the older men that left first when Christ asked them to throw the first stone. I think we're always becoming more aware of our sin as we grow older.(it seems even Paul and Peter may have seen it the same way).

How has the gospel affected you? What parts and in what way? In real terms that make sense?

Col 2:14 Eph 2:15 ?

What say the threaders?

 2009/5/11 23:56Profile





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