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 Ben from Wisconsin

you asked me:

Quote:
are you saying that we (as people in human form) are unable to identify any type of sin?



no.

and then you asked me :
Quote:
This could mean in ourselves or in other people?



ah, now we venture into new territory, and allow me to pose two questions to you:

are you without sin?

and I don;t ask that with any hidden agenda or intentions, or to shame you.

and I ask you who said this in Scripture?

Quote:
And I said: "Woe is me! For I am lost; for I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips.



not only who said this, but why did he say this?

you wrote this in another post and another thread. I dont bring it up to shame you (God forbid) but to illuminate what I mean:

Quote:
I can tell you from personal experience, that I have been called out as being "self-righteous", "pious", "holier than thou", and outright arrogant.



Perhaps these are true, but after sharing the Gospel with my sister this past week, it hit me. Those that are not saved, are offended by the Gospel. This may sound elementary, but if God has opened our eyes to something that he has not opened someone else's eyes to, they may feel as if we are arrogant.



let me ask you this, to some, yes, the Gospel might be offensive, but consider this, maybe its not the Gospel that's offensive to those who are desperately in need of peace, shalom, wholeness, rightouness imparted by the atoning Blood of the Messiah, but could it be, its the human messenger in all his or her own flaws, that is the one thats offensive?

Not the Message of life and life to the fullest, everlasting, cleansed of sin by our Beautiful Jesus...not the Message, but could it be the human messenger, that is sometimes offensive?

and Ben, my Wisconsin brother(greatest state in the Union)there are no human words that can convince an overburdened sinner to drink of the Living Waters. All I can do is give you my own testimony, and no man's words saved me. I was saved by the God the Holy Ghost in a house trailer,just Him and me, when I was crushed by God, and brought into the Arms of Jesus.

Furthermore I state again, there is NOTHING we can do to make ourselves holy ENOUGH, our righteousness is imparted, its imputed, its supernatural, it's the Blood of Jesus. Does that mean we go out and live like the devil? God forbid, but I am simply tired of all this finger pointing and verbiage designed to make a schematic of "us" and "them".
and I am simply tired of all this trafficking in "get out of hell free" cards."Accept Jesus so you won't go to hell".

Hell? look around you, what do you think this old earth is? at least parts of it,worldy systems, greed, hunger,war, misery, sickness, murder, its hellish in it's own rights.
Even if God sent me to hell, I would count it gain at having loved and served Jesus while in this human tent, because He told me, in His Own Words, that He is "gentle and lowly in heart", and I love Him, and I will try my best to do like Him, "gentle and lowly in heart"....or "poor in spirit".

The Message is just fine, its some of the messengers that need some real reflection and recalibration in the Ministry of the Holy Spirit, and that don;t exclude myself.

God Bless you, and I know where one small taste of Heaven is on earth, the Driftless Region of Wisconsin!! God bless you Ben, neil

 2009/4/15 20:48
ccchhhrrriiisss
Member



Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4499


 Re:

Hi fuehrerbe21...

Quote:

fuehrerbe21 wrote:
Quote:
What I say originally stands, I'm just happy those babies are alive, and to those who feel called to denounce sin, fingers a pointing, cheeks quavering at this sin or that sin, or pronounce this one a "true" Christian OR NOT, tread very carefully, you're playing with Fire, the Fire of God, and He doesnt have much patience with hypocrites. (I'm not talking to you Ginny) There is nothing ANY of us can do to be HOLY ENOUGH, despite what various holiness preachers may tell you. God can see right thru ALL of us, right thru the religious pride, the posturing, the posing, the churchly venacular, the religiousity, all of it. Point a finger, you play with Fire, consider the case of Ted Haggard and tremble with fear, fore God will expose all hypocrisy.



I've been trying to stay out of this thread, but this has prompted me to ask a question. I am asking this objectively, and have no hidden intentions.

Based on what you are saying in this quote, are you saying that we (as people in human form) are unable to identify any type of sin? This could mean in ourselves or in other people?

I am not putting words into your mouth, I just want to know if this is what you are saying.


I understand what you are saying...and I think that I understand what Neil is trying to say too. There is a difference between pointing out sin...and pointing out sin in someone's life. And, of course, both of these are different from judging whether a person is a believer or not.

The article that Greg included speaks for itself. This world is in a state where sins that were once embarrassing are just not embarrassing anymore.

My wife is from Mexico, but she was raised in an area that had the highest teen pregnancy rate in the nation. The Rio Grande Valley of the Texas/Mexico border has an unbelievably high pregnancy rate. I asked my wife why this is. She told me that the biggest factor as she understands it is the welfare society. The border region of Texas is extremely poor. Yet the people do not worry about paying for their children. They don't worry about feeding their babies. They don't worry about having a place for their babies to live. Why? The government pays for it all.

My wife said that the culture of the Rio Grande Valley also is conducive for pregnancies. Most children belong to large families (my wife has nine siblings). If a teenage girl becomes pregnant, the grandmother is always there to help take care of the baby. The teenage girl can continue being a "teenager." Even if the family is unable or unwilling to help, the government in the Valley provides day care centers for every high school. In other words, the responsibility of motherhood is not there like one would expect.

To its credit, the Rio Grande Valley is heavily against abortion. This is due to its Cathoic roots. However, the high schools are also filled with young people who have a Catholic culture but pay little attention to all of the definitions of what "sin" might be. While the Catholic Church teaches against premarital sex, theft and drugs, the message is not resonating with the kids. The people who live around my wife's parents have teens as young as 12 years old who are pregnant. My in-law's 10 yr old neighbor was killed from a bad drug deal. My in-law's home has been burglarized four times in the past three years -- and they had their burro stolen last year!

That being said, I think that we should be careful when we point out such things. There are some sins that are abundantly clear. We can say that they are sin -- but we should always say so with a broken heart that is filled with God's love. Jesus ate and drank with "sinners." We should have such a compassion for those who are lost, those who are fallen and those who are even self-righteous that we are willing to risk our Christian "holiness status" enough to reach out to those who are hurting. We should not apologize for what the Gospel calls "sin." However, we should not point out sin unless we have true, heart broken passion for those who might or might not be caught in sin.

We can preach against abortion. We can preach against premarital sex. But we should preach in such a way that those who are guilty are won over by the love of God.


_________________
Christopher

 2009/4/15 21:03Profile
wind_blows
Member



Joined: 2009/1/4
Posts: 353


 Re: Dear sister Ginny

Dear Nathan4Jesus

Edit: I felt I should change what I posted.Just felt like my other post may have been to emotionally written. So this post has been edited. I have decided to delete much of what I first posted and instead just want to ask what would you say as a Christian to a young sixteen year old girl who is sleeping with her seventeen year old boyfriend and professes to love the Lord? How would you point her to Jesus and share with her,her need to repent if you never speak to her about the sin she is in???????

You are right we are all sinners, but that does not mean we don't help each other to walk in the Lord. Hebrews 3:13 but exhort one another daily, while it is called “Today,” lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.
We can not exhort one another daily if we are not even willing to invest in one another lives and speak honestly so that we will not be deceived.
I know you are older then I am so thoughtfully and respectfully I will tell you that I disagree with most of what you have shared here today.

Your little sis in Him

Edit: I just wanted to come back on and say that I in no way am saying that I am not a sinner. I am so thankful for the people, loving and caring people God has put in my life who are willing to tell me like it is. I know that I will not always see things in my life that others walking with the Lord might see, self can deceive, the heart is deceitful, so I am so glad that their are others in the body who are willing to share with me. Sometimes it is painful and hard to hear truth and yet it has been these people, who love the Lord that have challenged me the most to seek Jesus, to lay down my life and die to sin!

 2009/4/15 21:52Profile









 Dear "Wind Blows"

(why some people dont use their names, I can never understand, so I'll call you Lil Sis, okay?)
Lil Sis, you wrote:

Quote:
Please don't misunderstand me, I am not trying to be flippant with you about what you wrote but it just breaks my heart to read this stuff.



Well, I'm sorry I broke your heart, didnt mean to. (if you can discern a little sarcasm, I beg your forgiveness, its a character flaw me and Jesus are working on)

First off, how old are you? Secondly, this friend thats having sex with her boy friend, are you three in the same Church?.....in the youth group there?

the reason I ask this is that you asked me this question:

Quote:
Tell me please what would you say as a Christian to a young girl who is sleeping with her seventeen year old boyfriend and professes to love the Lord?



Just what you've done to date, call her on her sin, if she doesn't listen, thats why I asked you if you three belong to the same Church and youth group.

IF you do, now its time to follow what Scripture has to say, bring in two or three from the Church and that would include an older sister in the Lord,presumably the youth group leader and speak with her again, pray with her, sit with her, and HIM, the boyfriend, and testify and discuss this sin, and God willing, If the Holy Spirit convicts them of this sin, good. Failing that, then its time to bring the couple, the youth leader, and the pastor of the Church to counsel them. You stay out of that meeting. If they dont submit to the leadership that God has entrusted to the pastor, and the youth leader, what does Scripture say to do?

BUT, if you're all just three lone wolfs, and belong to different churches, or those two aint churched, you have done what the Lord has led you to do, and that is to lovingly (I pray, rather than hectoring) point out "that this is NOT God's best for you girlfriend"...after that, what do want to happen? Do you think by YOUR human will you're gonna bully or manipulate her into a course of righteousness?

No, you won't, so let God deal with her, I think He's more than able, don't you think? Of course you can use that love for your wayward friend by really doubling down on your intercessory prayer time, and watching miracles happen on your knees.

Now here's where the fine line between following Jesus and just being a unloving busybody lays. you wrote:
Quote:
I will keep praying for her, and sharing truth with her, but I will not support her sinful, selfish behavior and pretend that it does not matter.



Then don't, either walk away, or love her as she is, without agenda. But here's a problem, you wrote:
Quote:
I would pray and hope that there would be brothers and sisters around me that when they see sin in my life that I am either ignoring or don't see would call me on it



amen, but there comes a point, when people "call" one another on sin, that borders on "religious" abuse and manipulation, I use the word "religious" very deliberately, because there have been countless number of souls that have been wounded or hurt by either well-meaning or not so well meaning folks wrapped up in "religion", who "call" them on their sin, and that calling becomes a hectoring or badgering, its not exhortation anymore, Exhorting is POINTING someone in the right direction, not pushing them.

Point in case, how did Jesus deal with the adulterous woman brought to him to be stoned?

"Go and sin no more", but two things were never written, did she go on sinning? God knows, and what was Jesus writting in the sand? God knows,but I have a feeling it was a list of her accusers hidden secret sins.

Its God the Holy Ghost that convicts one of sin, not you, or me. What do you think the whole plank and splinter parable is about? We might be used by the Spirit to point the errant sinner in the right direction, but its God that takes them by the hand, understand?

I will say to you what I said before, I AM JOYOUS those babies are alive and so is God because He loves them! I don't care whether you or anybody on this forum agrees with me, coz I am not here to please man, I'm here to please God, not man, and I know that God loves LIFE, He doesnt care whether these lil souls come from the Ward and June Cleever family (TV show) or from a 16 year old little alone black girl in the South Bronx.

and I still find it the depth of hypocrisy to becry a rise in live babies being born out of wedlock, which is a sin of ignorance, while we still have abortion on demand, which is an intentional sin, and murder at that.

If you agree with me on what I posted, fine, if you disagree, fine......and in closing, my tone might be strident, but its not hateful, or mean.

God love you Lil Sis....be brave, go by your God given name, mine is neil, shalom.

 2009/4/15 23:28









 oh Lil Sis

I spent an hour going over your post, PREVIOUS post, and writing to you in as loving and Godly manner I could, praying, putting heart and soul behind what I had to say, and you (wisely) had second thoughts about your first post, and that is cool, because you learned a neat lesson, which is one that I learned thru bitter tears and recrimination, before you hit the "submit" button, "should I do it Jesus?"...lol

no worries, in Jesus love, neil

 2009/4/15 23:33
wind_blows
Member



Joined: 2009/1/4
Posts: 353


 Re: oh Lil Sis

Hey Neil

Thanks for answering my question. Sorry to have cause you to spend an hour over my deleted post.
If I may share some with you from your post?Some of what you wrote has a tendency to sound as if anyone who calls the sin of premarital relationships as judging, you paint a picture that is not entirely accurate or fair. Instead of lumping many together and painting the picture with such broad strokes you might think about clarifying that there are some who speak in a judgmental ways but that does not change the fact that we are told to lovingly in a Christlike manner point one another toward Jesus and at times that may require us to admonish one another for the sin we are in.(It is painful, but at times very good for us:-) You also come across as equating that anyone who speaks against the sin of fornication some how does not love or care just as deeply for the unborn child that may result. Please understand that one can deeply love these unborn children, be against abortion, and still love the moms and dads enough to share truth with them. May I ask you do you think that those others here that have spoken against the sin of fornication do not rejoice with you that these children are alive??? I believe that they do. I will close by saying this, I do agree that the heart in which we speak to one another does matter just as much if not more then what we might say, and as in all things that we do, we should be diligent and in prayer that we speak only what the Lord has for us and do not walk outside of that heart or attitude.


As you said Neil if you don't agree with me that is fine. No worries:-) Its all good:-)

Your little sis in Him

 2009/4/16 1:44Profile









 ahhh, Lil Sis

I think you may be misinterpeting or distorting what I was saying.

There is a very pronounced tendency within the evangelical church in north america to "cherry pick" which sins they denounce, and which sins they either ignore or give short shrift to.

For instance below, Chris brought up the roman institution effect on Mexico, well, as the Lord is my witness that roman institution is FULL of sin. In fact its very existence, underlines the depravity of most institutions that hide under the cloak of "religion", it's very existence is apostasy of the worst kind.

Many here, spent many hours, testifying to the sin-soaked nature of Todd bentley's "ministry", and true to God's nature, Todd was exposed, but at the same time, I dont see anybody calling out those some of those hideous apostate open air preachers, one in particular who started his antics on this very forum, I know he has been expelled, but the heart-breaking displeasure to watch his religious pride-soaked ramblings last night, deeply disturbing as this very young man, is lining up to be the next Jed Smock. Nobody calls him out on his sin, as he spews his "doctrine" amongst vulnerable college kids, and brings reproach to Jesus and the Grace and Majesty of the Gospel. I could do that, but for what purpose, God's going to deal with him, my prayer is that God gently steer him in the way he should go, instead of just exposing him in utter humiliation and ruin.

In the period of Oct 2002, until the first bombs started falling in Iraq in March 2003, and even to this very day, nobody has called out President Bush for the sin of lying to the American people, for embroiling us in an illegal, immoral unwinnable war in Iraq that was based on "intelligence" that anybody who had any real knowledge of the region KNEW was a lie, said war costing 4,000 American lives, and only God knows, how many innocent Iraqi's perished, not to mention the 2 trillion dollars sucked down the black hole of the military-industrial complex.

Its easier to have endless arguments over Bible versions, or the all too familiar "divorce/remarriage" argument, rather than call out a leader in his sin, or the same gaggle of well heeled executives that keep the weapons pipeline full for an empire gone mad, and then wonder why, we are in a financial depression, and the result that many good decent middle class families stand on the brink of ruin. When a believer would make that call, he or she would be accused of posting "political" threads, or get quoted Romans 13 ad infinitum. But today, many here pin this depression on President Obama, or call him the "anti-christ", bent on making America a "socialist nation", when in fact it was the previous President that engendered this terrible crisis, took us from surplus's, to a deficit that is mind boggling.

Many blame the "media", or the "culture" for our current woes, and the sin that birthed these woes, instant gratification, over-consumption, lust for the quick profit, the fleshly reliance on our many "horses and chariots" to enforce our will on the world, while we neglect the least of the least within our every own country, if you call out that sin also, what are called? a "liberal". Well read the Major Prophets in the Bible and they consistently prophesy against such sin. Were Isaiah, Jeremiah, and Ezekial "liberals"?

I think not.

...and what do we have today?, a religious institution being hijacked and co-opted by an empire, and heaven forbid, you should call out such sin and rank hypocrisy. The Early Church was growing strong in the Lord, until the roman empire expropriated it, and made the whole once beautiful Ekkelsia into the whore of babylon, the holy roman empire, and those dogs and child molestering "priests" who engage in popery, mary worship and other such blasmphemous superstitutions and lies from the pit of hell, that calls itself the roman catholic "church". I shudder to think what this nation, God have mercy on us, will come up with as the official imperial "church", or how many will die that don't submit to this apostasy.

That's the sin that concerns me MOST of all.

Lil Sis, dont worry about responding to this post, I have a feeling many others will refute me.

But as I said before, if you agree with me, fine, if you don't, fine. Man's condemnation doesnt faze me at all. I aim to please God, and to serve Jesus, period.

neil

 2009/4/16 9:34
broclint
Member



Joined: 2006/8/1
Posts: 370
West Monroe, LA

 Re:

I have read this whole thread, and am more than a little shocked that no one has come back to rebuke you Neil for your rude, uncalled for, pharisaic comments, "the pot calling the kettle black". I have read many of your comments on many other threads and have restrained myself from commenting, but this one crosses the line big time.

First of all, your comments were totally out of line since all Greg did was post an article. You have your baggage and have let it all hang out... that is your privilege/shame, but to judge a brother and try to read his heart and make "prophesies" regarding his demise, and call it of the Holy Spirit is just plain disgusting. For all your repeated WORDS of 'sweet spirit' and 'humility' your whitewashed robe of pride is shining out from under it.

Quote:
“the river of hypocrisy runs so deep thru this website, that if a saved sinner looking for any mercy, any blessing, would soon be swamped and drowned by it.”




And so you are in the unique position to judge us all???

Matthew 7:3-5 ( NKJV )
And why do you look at the speck in your brother’s eye, but do not consider the plank in your own eye?
Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me remove the speck from your eye’; and look, a plank is in your own eye?
Hypocrite! First remove the plank from your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.

If they ("the saved sinner an oxymoron") are looking for mercy it is most easily and readily found. The truth will set you free. Jesus spoke truth, and the 8th chapter of John was not the only place He spoke it. He spoke it to the rich young ruler, who walked away sorrowfully because he didn’t receive compromise, nor did those would be followers that wanted the Lord to make some concessions for them so they could "follow Him". He spoke it to the woman at the well, gently no doubt, but certainly without compromise. He spoke it to the Syro-Phonecian woman in a manner that would have no doubt offended enough to get a number of responses on this forum for political incorrectness … and of course He spoke it to those who had seen and seen and seen and still refused to believe, and told them in no uncertain terms what would be the result of their stubbornness.





Quote:
“You see, thats the trouble with many of you on this forum, you are so locked in your "holiness" and your doctrines of work related salvation, that anybody that doesnt, or hasnt fit YOUR idea of the Love and Mercy of Jesus, that would adjudge such, as the lost, as objects of scorn, you have gone so far away from the Ministry of Jesus Who saved and cleanses souls such as mine. and God willing those lovers of mine. Jesus is the Loving Father, the older brother I never had that could have said to me" Neil there's a better way, Follow me"......and finally I opend my heart to Him. Am I perfect? Lord no! Sanctfication is an ongoing process, despite what some of these harsh, works oriented preachers you have plastered all this site, might say.”



And who fits your template? And if they don't they are hypocrites, Pharisees, bigots, etc. "harsh" again, the pot calling the kettle black... what hypocrisy!

By the way, this is Greg's website, and who (oh sorry I forgot) are you to come on here tell him what he should put on his own website. Like anyone here is going to try to tell you what to put on yours? It is a privilege to write on these forums, not a right!

The theology that you have displayed in this thread, and victim-ology sounds like something off of Oprah, certainly not from the New Testament. Paul wrote to Rome, Corinth, et al, to slaves and masters who were both brothers and sisters in the same church at the same time with the same responsibility.. please, spare us the liberal lectures... we all have ancestors and there is not a people in America that does not have someone in their background that was a victim of someone... some of mine are on a reservation... so what has that got to do with my own responsibility in the here and now, or any one of us... sounds like Eve blaming the devil, Adam blaming Eve, and in the end both of them blaming God... "each man shall bear his own burden".

Quote:
Let me be very frank with you Greg as the Holy Spirit leds me , and in the love I can muster in this cracked clay vessel. You have been overtaken with religious pride and I see nothing of the Pure Sweet Merciful Grace and Love of the Lord Jesus Christ in your words, and your witness. You are a young man who God gifted with a powerful internet minstry and your judgements and slander, read discerment give witness to this. You probably want to make me "anonymous" now, as you have so many you dared challenge anything you post, but search your heart, Ask God the Holy Ghost if what I say is true.



Read your words here sir... please! If you have slept on these words and have awakened with them still in your heart, I suggest prayer... your "slander, read discernment" is most certainly skewed. Since when can you read a man's heart, and I assure you I cannot read yours, but I most certainly can read your words... by which we are either condemned or justified.

Quote:
Shame on you! The LORD rebuke you. Hear me, I will give prophesy now, if you keep this up, not the ministry, but your own hidden fleshly ways, then you and this ministry will go onto the rocks of ruin and error, and woe, if you drag anyone down with you. I have much to repent for, always will, till the day I see Jesus, but brother Greg, repent.



That is a most audacious statement. "The LORD rebuke you" is reserved for demons, not brothers, and as for your prophesy, I believe you need to check out where this one came from... and perhaps, perhaps you may find it in your heart to do as you have advised since you have attacked a brother beloved by many of us here, who is providing a service that has been a blessing to millions. The question you asked regarding a very simple and informative post on the news thread "why did you post this?" could and should be asked you. Why, oh why did you post what you have, here and in many other places where a civil discussion has been interrupted by the spilling of your guts and self-righteous rebukes?

Clint




_________________
Clint Thornton

 2009/4/16 10:14Profile
White_Stone
Member



Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 1196
North Central Florida

 Re:

Speaking to Neil,

Quote:
we are in a financial depression, and the result that many good decent middle class families stand on the brink of ruin.



You paint your picture with a broad brush. If people had not fallen in the 'debt' trap they would not be on the brink of ruin. This goes for ALL people, the bankers and the business owners, the corporations and the governments. Investing in 'debt' was a profitable business for a while but those debtors are just as much slaves as the Negro race you speak of constantly. The children and grandchildren (the future generations) in this Country are slaves to the debt the Government is running up. Your own son is in that group but you do not express concern for that. . . I find this odd.

What is with this hatred you have for President Bush? Did not President Johnson entangle us in Viet Nahm - at what price? In my view, no one is in a position of power without God putting him there. I pray God's will be done.

While President Bush was in office, my husband and I were struggling with our lives and could not devote time to study his actions. Actually, for all our lives we have looked to Government as a necessary cost of civilization. Someone has to be the boss to get things done and as in the old saying, 'The Boss isn't always right but he's always the Boss.'

Several posts back you lift up the black worshipers on the Nimitz. Falling on their faces and crying. And the 'big black women' running up and down the aisles of the Church your mother took you to visit. Personally, I do not see this as meek, humble, orderly behavior. It seems like attention seeking chaos. By their fruits ye shall know them. It is easy for a impressionable youth to mistake this for exhibiting faith but you are now a grown man and should see it for what it most often is, simply exhibiting self. From your description of the worshipers, alone, the truth of the matter is shown. You saw their physical bodies and recorded that for posterity - not their fruits.

Your story of your first love read more like a screen play and I feel the details were uncalled for here. The most offensive line was to say how much money you threw on the table when you left the restaurant. In my whole life I have never had $100 to throw away for a lunch. Actually, I have never wanted to have a $100 lunch. Why did you feel it necessary to give such a detail? Did that put more value on the fact you were trying to put across?

BroClint made his points clearly, I hope you can see them.

By the way, Egypt made your people slaves, why is it that I only hear you harping on the slavery that was in America? The same slave trade that populated America served the whole civilized world at the same time. America did not hold the only franchise. My ancestors were slaves in Ireland and Germany to the Land Owners (haven't you seen Braveheart?) life was no less painful there. Let's live in the HERE and NOW and give thanks for the Word that was preserved and passed on to all of us.

Trying to speak as softly as I should but feel it necessary to say something,
white stone (you know my name)




_________________
Janice

 2009/4/16 11:13Profile
wind_blows
Member



Joined: 2009/1/4
Posts: 353


 Re: ahhh, Lil Sis

Hey Neil

I had to come back one last time, spent some time in prayer and then I read your post here this morning. I just thought I should respond to a few things.

First off you wrote: I think you may be misinterpeting or distorting what I was saying.
*********
Neil through out this entire thread you have contently described people on this forum as being judgmental(even Greg) for speaking against the sin of fornication. Did you ever stop to think that perhaps people were commenting on the sin of fornication because it was the one mentioned in the article. Put up an article on lying and I will share truth about that as well. Put up one on pride and we can share truth from Gods word on that. Just because you do not agree with the article does not change the fact that fornication is sin and that it does go on even amongst so called believers and for the most part is ignored.

Second you wrote:Many here, spent many hours, testifying to the sin-soaked nature of Todd bentley's "ministry", and true to God's nature, Todd was exposed, but at the same time, I dont see anybody calling out those some of those hideous apostate open air preachers, one in particular who started his antics on this very forum, I know he has been expelled, but the heart-breaking displeasure to watch his religious pride-soaked ramblings last night, deeply disturbing as this very young man, is lining up to be the next Jed Smock. Nobody calls him out on his sin, as he spews his "doctrine" amongst vulnerable college kids, and brings reproach to Jesus and the Grace and Majesty of the Gospel. I could do that, but for what purpose, God's going to deal with him, my prayer is that God gently steer him in the way he should go, instead of just exposing him in utter humiliation and ruin.
********
Neil I will be honest, I don't know what you are talking about here so I can not comment concerning these people. I will leave that to those as you said who might know.

Third you wrote this:In the period of Oct 2002, until the first bombs started falling in Iraq in March 2003, and even to this very day, nobody has called out President Bush for the sin of lying to the American people, for embroiling us in an illegal, immoral unwinnable war in Iraq that was based on "intelligence" that anybody who had any real knowledge of the region KNEW was a lie, said war costing 4,000 American lives, and only God knows, how many innocent Iraqi's perished, not to mention the 2 trillion dollars sucked down the black hole of the military-industrial complex.
Its easier to have endless arguments over Bible versions, or the all too familiar "divorce/remarriage" argument, rather than call out a leader in his sin, or the same gaggle of well heeled executives that keep the weapons pipeline full for an empire gone mad, and then wonder why, we are in a financial depression, and the result that many good decent middle class families stand on the brink of ruin. When a believer would make that call, he or she would be accused of posting "political" threads, or get quoted Romans 13 ad infinitum. But today, many here pin this depression on President Obama, or call him the "anti-christ", bent on making America a "socialist nation", when in fact it was the previous President that engendered this terrible crisis, took us from surplus's, to a deficit that is mind boggling.
Many blame the "media", or the "culture" for our current woes, and the sin that birthed these woes, instant gratification, over-consumption, lust for the quick profit, the fleshly reliance on our many "horses and chariots" to enforce our will on the world, while we neglect the least of the least within our every own country, if you call out that sin also, what are called? a "liberal". Well read the Major Prophets in the Bible and they consistently prophesy against such sin. Were Isaiah, Jeremiah, and Ezekial "liberals"?
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Neil all I can say to this entire part is that your speaking about worldly stuff. I don't get involved in worldly stuff like this if I can help it. This is not my home, my home is in heaven with my Lord and Savior. From what I do know about both presidents let me just say this, it is interesting to me that you seem to be fully against one and fully support the other. You seem fine speaking out against Bush for the war, that is your right. Are you willing to speak out against Obama for his pushing of abortion?(You do not have to answer that just some thing to think about for you)

Last you wrote: ...and what do we have today?, a religious institution being hijacked and co-opted by an empire, and heaven forbid, you should call out such sin and rank hypocrisy.
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Neil here you are calling the institution sin and rank hypocrisy. You say many churches are filled with judgmental hypocrites that choose sin to be against. All I and some others are saying that it is filled with fornication to. Why is it alright for you to call out others for their sin of hypocrisy and yet you condemn others for sharing truth concerning fornication. Seems as if you are also picking and choosing which sin to speak about. As far as I can read sin is sin and God hates it all. Fornication and hypocrisy. We should strive to die to it all don't you think??

Just one last thought, you wrote: Lil Sis, dont worry about responding to this post, I have a feeling many others will refute me.But as I said before, if you agree with me, fine, if you don't, fine. Man's condemnation doesnt faze me at all. I aim to please God, and to serve Jesus, period.
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Neil if you don't mind me saying it almost seems like you looking for a fight, like maybe you have been since you first posted to this thread? That may not be your heart at all but that is how you come across. I will close by saying I think you owe Greg a public apology for your first post but that is between you and God and Greg.

Have a great day Neil:-)
you little sis

Edit:wanted to make clear that I really don't favor either political party at all. I only reference the two presidents actions on the different situations to show you Neil that perhaps you to have a habit of choosing which sins you speak out against. While you were against Bush and the war I have not heard you speak out against president obama for his pushing the abortion legislation. (Again this is just something that you might think about) Personally I am praying for both men:-)

 2009/4/16 11:14Profile





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