SermonIndex Audio Sermons
Image Map
Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : "Some of us will rise with the first resurrection" - Art Katz

Print Thread (PDF)

Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 )

Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3707


Revelation 19:7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.

Who chose His wife and made her ready before the foundation of the world?

Ephesians 1:3-5 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

A perfect and chaste wife, made the Lambs Bride by His working in us.

Ephesians 5:22-28 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing. Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

We are the bride of Christ and He has made us this way by His loving us and giving himself for us. Just like a husband should by God's wishes.

Much more that just, "should be": Strong's Greek Dictionary
5600. o
Search for G5600 in KJVSL
w o o es ace; e ay; etc.
the subjunctive of 1510; (may, might, can, could, would, should, must, etc.; also with 1487 and its comparative, as well as with other particles) be:--+ appear, are, (may, might, should) be, X have, is, + pass the flower of her age, should stand, were.

Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

In Christ: Phillip


 2009/3/28 1:28Profile

Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3707



"""You are pulling verses telling us the obvious of what HE has done - I am only trying to balance your comments between Scripture with our "co-operative relationship" by giving the Scriptures stating our part of this Two-Sided Relationship."""

This is the churches or the Brides big problem, it is not two sided, it is only one sided when it comes to The Body of Christ, It is all of Him and none of us, even though we think it is part of us, as it says the less I become the greater He becomes, and the closer I come to the new creature in Christ the Father wants in His house.

In Christ: Phillip


 2009/3/28 1:34Profile


I'm sorry Brother, but I cannot see a One-sided marital relationship in His Word - from Genesis to Revelation, I just can't see it.
I see "if you will - I will"
I see "if you don't - I won't"
I see "I work and you work out".

Rather than go around again - I'll repost this and if you'd comment on this particular post directly, maybe we could come to the balance.

Thank you!


I stressed that it is HIS working "through" us - but HE needs our co-operation because we are not a robot-bride.

I only stressed dependence on a "communion" with HIM.

Where we don't walk after what we 'think' we should be "doing" - but using HIM as our Example - looking Up to hear The Good Sheperd and Follow His lead by His Strength because we Love Him.

[b]Eph 5:22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.

Eph 5:32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

From the beginning in Deut 6 - His Two Commandments are to Love Him with all that we are and others - as He did/does. There was only One Covenent - that of Love bringing Grace.

Joh 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love. [/b]

Joh 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Joh 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

1Jn 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

1Jn 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

1Jn 2:5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.

1Jn 2:6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

1Jn 2:28 And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.

1Jn 3:3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

1Jn 3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and [b]do[/b] those things that are pleasing in his sight.

1Jn 3:24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

1Jn 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.

1Jn 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

2Jn 1:6 And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.

Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

Rev 19:7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come,

[i]and his wife hath made herself ready. [/i]

A "wife" who "Loves" her Husband does not "do nothing" but she "listens to & for and depends on her Husband's Voice" [Jn 10], submits and seeks in every way to please Him - in any way He asks or directs, by His strength, to any guidance, direction, command or unction that HE Speaks or has Spoken in His Word. That's Love!

 2009/3/28 2:00

Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA


Hi everyone,

"The balance would be the proper tension between your Scripture posts and those Scriptures you leave out."

I think this is important.

I think it is possible to make heresy out of true or even sound doctrine. As I understand it, the word translated heresy does not signify 'false doctrine'. According to Strong's Greek Dictionary, the word translated heresy in Galatians 5:20 is:

From G138; properly a choice, that is, (specifically) a party or (abstractly) disunion. (“heresy” is the Greek word itself.): - heresy [which is the Greekord itself], sect.

The language of the Bible comes to us in its entirety without lengthy 'what if' and 'if then' questions and explanations.

Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2009/3/28 7:53Profile

 Re: maybe the answer's in here?

[color=CC6633]Mat 25:14 For the kingdom of heaven is as a man travelling into a far country, who called his own servants, and delivered unto them his goods.
Mat 25:15 And unto one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one; to every man according to his several ability; and straightway took his journey.
Mat 25:16 Then he that had received the five talents went and traded with the same, and made them other five talents.
Mat 25:17 And likewise he that had received two, he also gained other two.
Mat 25:18 But he that had received one went and digged in the earth, and hid his lord's money.
Mat 25:19 After a long time the lord of those servants cometh, and reckoneth with them.
Mat 25:20 And so he that had received five talents came and brought other five talents, saying, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me five talents: behold, I have gained beside them five talents more.
Mat 25:21 His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.
Mat 25:22 He also that had received two talents came and said, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me two talents: behold, I have gained two other talents beside them.
Mat 25:23 His lord said unto him, Well done, good and faithful servant; thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.
Mat 25:24 Then he which had received the one talent came and said, Lord, I knew thee that thou art an hard man, reaping where thou hast not sown, and gathering where thou hast not strawed:
Mat 25:25 And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, there thou hast that is thine.
Mat 25:26 His lord answered and said unto him, Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed:
Mat 25:27 Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and then at my coming I should have received mine own with usury.
Mat 25:28 Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents.
Mat 25:29 For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.
Mat 25:30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Mat 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
Mat 25:32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
Mat 25:33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
Mat 25:34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
Mat 25:35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
Mat 25:36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
Mat 25:37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
Mat 25:38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
Mat 25:39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
Mat 25:40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
Mat 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
Mat 25:42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
Mat 25:43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
Mat 25:44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
Mat 25:45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
Mat 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal. [/color]

 2009/3/30 21:20

Joined: 2007/1/30
Posts: 926


Looking again at Rev. 20:5-6, regeneration is now. This is why the first resurrection has already taken place for believers, and is how they are ruling with Christ. "The rest of the dead" (the damned) will not be raised until the judgment following Christ's return. [Rev. 20:5]

Lest we confuse the second sentence of the verse as having to do with these damned ones, non-believers cannot have any part in the first resurrection, for "Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years." [Rev. 20:6]

Even now Christ sits on the Throne of David beside the Father (Heb 1:3, Acts 15:14-17) ([url=]this article is good[/url]) and we reign as kings and priests with Him through faith.

The end of the 1000 years will coincide with the beginning of the tribulation, when Satan is loosed for a season from the chain which prevents him from launching unified world persecution against the Church, i.e. Great Tribulation. ([url=]This article as well[/url])

This means that the Millennium is 1000 years in the way that Christ really is a Lamb. The Millennium is figurative language; it really means something but not literally a thousand 24-hour periods.

The scripture does this in other places, too. "The Day of the Lord", "in that Day", and Daniel's "70 weeks," each represent an epoch, but not the literal amount they are termed with.

I recommend this sermon:


 2009/4/1 14:50Profile

Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 1196
North Central Florida


Thank you for your post, it seems much clearer to me now.

white stone


 2009/4/1 18:00Profile


Hi Michael [waving]

You probably know that I believe in the Pre-Millenial Return of Christ at the end of the tribulation and why I couldn't answer earilier.
You probably figured I'm not Reformed theology neither, but I want you to know that I'm an official member of a PCA and they love me just the same - as we're supposed to. :-) Amen!

 2009/4/1 18:44

Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3707


Davids Throne is earthly, The Throne of God is Heavenly, where Jesus now sits, "sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;" this is not David's Throne on earth which Christ will claim and make it His Own, when He returns with His Body the Church the resurrected saints of His catching away to the Father's House, and They and their Lord will rule and reign on the earthly throne of David, which Jesus will make His own and rule and reign for 1000 years over this earth, then the second resurrection and second death. The rule from David's throne will be the earthly Israel, not the Heavenly Church the Body of Christ His own brothers and sisters by Birth of His Father's Seed, Incorruptable, His Body The birthed son's of God, The Bride Grooms wife, The Church, not the divorced wife of God, Israel, God's chosen people, son's of Israel, earthly remarried wife of God to the Father in the millennium, with Christ as their King on David's earthly throne.

Gaebelein's Annoted Bible, from Heb 1

The vast universe is the work of His hands and Jesus Christ Himself as very God is "the effulgence of all of the God Heads glory and the expression of His substance." He makes the invisible God visible. He is the perfect impress of God; God is fully revealed in His person who came from glory and dwelt among men. Furthermore, He is upholding all things by the Word of His power.

And He who was all this, and is all this, became man, appeared on earth, assuming manhood, to accomplish the work which He alone could do. By Himself He made purification of sins. The Son of God alone did this and none was with Him. What a blessed, sure, eternally secure foundation of our salvation! The passage shows the personal and perfect competency of the Son of God to effect this mighty work. It was done on the cross, in the death in which He glorified God and which has glorified Him forever. And therefore He arose from the dead and "sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high." It is significant that nothing is said in the text of His resurrection, in the sense as it is spoken of in other scriptures, that God raised Him from the dead and gave Him glory (1Pe 1:21). Nor is it said that He was told to sit down, but He sat down and took Himself the exalted place at the right hand of God. It is presented in this way because His character as Son is here in view. The place He has taken at the right hand of the Majesty on high is only proper and possible for a divine person. The fact that He took this place and sat down attests the perfection, the completeness and acceptation of the work He undertook and finished on the cross. He is now on the throne of God. David's throne and His own throne He will receive when as the First-Begotten He returns from the glory. Such is the Messiah, the Christ, promised to Israel; He is God, the creator and upholder of all things, the heir of all things, come down from heaven, in whom God spoke on earth and is still speaking from heaven, who made purification of sins and has gone back to heaven.

Constituted now heir of all things, destined according to God's eternal decrees to be head of all things, He, as the glorified Man, has "become so much better than the angels, as He hath by inheritance a name more excellent than they." The contrast between Him and angels is now made. The Epistle being addressed to Hebrews explains this comparison and contrast on Christ with angels. In the estimation of a Hebrew, next to Jehovah Himself, angels were looked upon as the highest and holiest beings. Then furthermore the law was given through angels (Ac 7:53; Ga 3:19), and other angelic ministrations had been prominent in Israel's history, so that these beings occupied a high place in the Jewish mind. But Christ, the man Christ Jesus, has become so much better than the angels; He is above the angels. His name is above every other name. He is on the right hand of the Majesty on high in the form and likeness of Man. As the Only-Begotten He is the creator of angels. In incarnation He was made a little lower than the angels, and now having finished the work for which He became man, He has received by inheritance that highest position and a more excellent name than angels. Into this wonderful place He takes His own people for whom He suffered and died. In Him all believers are above the angels. Angels are but servants, never said to occupy a throne, for they cannot reign. But Christ will have a throne on earth, David's throne which Jesus makes His own and His redeemed shall reign with Him for 1000 years.

In Christ: Phillip


 2009/4/2 14:30Profile

Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA



"...and we reign as kings and priests with Him through faith."

I don't think this is exactly so yet: 1 Co 4:8, Luke 19:11 and onward.

Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2009/4/3 4:57Profile

Promoting Genuine Biblical Revival.
Affiliate Disclosure | Privacy Policy