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 Re:

Quote:
If you are looking to proof-text your questions and answers, I can do that as well... but that would be taking the Word of the Lord out of context.

:-P Excellent slap stick, I love it!

 2009/3/20 22:55









 Re:

Quote:
I see others, who have remarried, and whom God has blessed, giving grace to cover the ongoing sin of adultery. (Yes, it is adultery. Christ makes that very clear in stating that anyone who married a divorced person is committing adultery. You can argue all you want, but that is what Jesus Christ said multiple times.) God's mercy and grace is defiantly sufficient to cover their sin.

What are you on about? "Giving grace to cover the ongoing sin of adultery"? What ever happened to forgiveness?

Christ certainly spoke of these things, but Jesus was born UNDER the law. Of course He would speak like He spoke. But Paul speaks in Romans chapter 7 that we are free from the law. We are not under that dominion. And he went on further to say that he upheld the law, because the law did one thing it drove us to Christ. Because by trying to obey it produces all manner of sin in me therefore I need Christ to save me from it. The conclusion is to die. Sin is no longer (at least it should be) a constant. All that the law is is dead to us. We don't live under it and it does not dictate our lives.

Is the law sin? God forbid, how would I know not to steal if the commandment hadn't said, "Thou shalt not steal? Therefore the law is holy and good because it told me that I had sinned. So the law is good for the rebellious and disobedient. Since the topic is about divorce and remarriage, it is here we MUST take into consideration if the parties involved are indeed being rebellious or disobedient. And if so, then the law will certainly tell them (that is if the conscience will be pricked) and condemn their actions. If someone is crying out for mercy and God allows the divorce to proceed for the betterments of the one crying out to Him, then who are we to question God?

God has done some things in the Word that are questionable and even goes against commandments contained in the law for the sake of certain individuals. I like this God, don't you? He thinks outside the box.

 2009/3/20 23:24
Miccah
Member



Joined: 2007/9/13
Posts: 1752
Wisconsin

 Re:

Quote:

DeepThinker wrote:
Quote:
If you are looking to proof-text your questions and answers, I can do that as well... but that would be taking the Word of the Lord out of context.

:-P Excellent slap stick, I love it!




Thanks brother. Humor IS good. :-)


_________________
Christiaan

 2009/3/20 23:30Profile
Miccah
Member



Joined: 2007/9/13
Posts: 1752
Wisconsin

 Re:

utilizer001 wrote:

Quote:



I look at my mother, and see her on her 4th husband. My blood father was her first, and the man I knew as dad was her third. Through my eyes I would seek her and her third husband to be reconciled. But this isn't what scripture teaches.




Brother. This hits close to home for me as well. My mother has been through 2 divorces and is engaged to be married a 4th time (she was widowed with the third). My father has been divorced 3 times and is engaged to be married a 4th time. My parents were divorced when I was 5 years old. I have known nothing but divorce throughout my entire childhood and the beginning of my adult life because of my parents choices.

At this point in our lives, our parents have taken to us as marriage councilors. My wife and I have had to literally plead with her parents not to get a divorce and act as their councilors as well. My wife and I have ministered to those seeking divorces, and have lost some friends in the process of pleading with them to work out their marriage. Some of these folks are professing Christians. So much more I could share...

So folks, if you think that those of us who do not agree and support divorce/remarriage have no idea what the divorced/remarriage crowd goes through, please know that we have our stories as well. We are not removed from the issues at hand and are not speaking from some kind of high horse. We are not some type of legalist on the issue, regardless of the Pharisee accusations thrown around about us. But we are brothers and sisters in Christ that do worry about others salvation.


_________________
Christiaan

 2009/3/20 23:52Profile









 Re: being open

Quote:
So folks, if you think that those of us who do not agree and support divorce/remarriage have no idea what the divorced/remarriage crowd goes through, please know that we have our stories as well. We are not removed from the issues at hand and are not speaking from some kind of high horse. We are not some type of legalist on the issue, regardless of the Pharisee accusations thrown around about us. But we are brothers and sisters in Christ that do worry about others salvation.

That was excellent brother. I am glad that you opened up yourself on this issue.

When we use the bible only without attaching some practical understanding to it, it comes across as condemnation, and rightly so, "for the letter killeth, but the Spirit giveth life".

Whenever we hear a sermon we always hear an experience regarding the sermon. We go through these trials and difficulties so that later on down the road we can incorporate them into whatever the LORD would have us use them for. We've heard people say, "You don't understand what I am going through", but we come back with, "Oh yes I do" and begin to explain to them their previous plight and how you endured and how you found the remedy. When it touches home, tears are dried up, hope is renewed and the feeling of joy returns that I can make it.

If we just throw scriptures around without any experience or understanding, one can only assume that one is legalistic and cruel having no mercy whatsoever. But now that you have revealed yourself brother, this changes things. And I am thankful that you did. To me, your a real person that's been there, who cares and understands, longsuffering, not willing that anyone would get a divorce.

 2009/3/21 8:29
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7471
Mississippi

 Re:

Quote:
I have a question for you and would like an honest answer. Are you a Roman Catholic? And do you attend a Catholic Monastery?



No. Never have been and don't have any traceable ancestors who have been. And I do not study Catholic literature.

ginnyrose


_________________
Sandra Miller

 2009/3/21 14:02Profile
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7471
Mississippi

 Re:

Earendel,

You profess to know the LORD. If one knows Him you will know you are a work in progress "being changed from Glory to glory..." If the Holy Spirit were to convict you that you are indeed living in adultery and that you need to removed yourself from that situation, would you?

ginnyrose


_________________
Sandra Miller

 2009/3/21 14:13Profile
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7471
Mississippi

 Re:

Frankly, I am very cautious of any preacher who works to make me feel good, who would not challenge me to a closer walk with the LORD, who is too timid to challenge sin on a person's life. In this regard, Washer is passionate about holiness without which no man will see the LORD. Simple as that. Are we passionate about being holy? Sometimes? How about ALL the time?

ginnyrose


_________________
Sandra Miller

 2009/3/21 14:18Profile
Earendel
Member



Joined: 2009/3/17
Posts: 308
Central Alberta, Canada

 Re:

Quote:

ginnyrose wrote:
Earendel,

You profess to know the LORD. If one knows Him you will know you are a work in progress "being changed from Glory to glory..." If the Holy Spirit were to convict you that you are indeed living in adultery and that you need to removed yourself from that situation, would you?

ginnyrose



I not only profess to know Him, I profess that He knows me. Does He know you? ...and how do you know that He knows you? What is your answer to this?

I have already dealt with this issue in my life regarding my marriage and my present state; I have had deep conviction from the Lord that I am not to abandon my wife and kids. She can leave me, but I am not allowed to leave her. And if she leaves me, I am to be single before the Lord for the remainder of my life. You have your interpretation of the scripture, and I truly don't think that you understand or know the Spirit of the Lord in all things.

Have you ever had the Lord appear to you? Has His Holy presence ever enveloped you? He has to me, time and time again. Even now as I write His Spirit is upon me. In my younger years, I have seen the Lord face to face in a dream (The love in His eyes when He looked at me were so intense and so beautiful, and the glory around him melted my spirit within me, and His glory caught me up.

Again, as a young man, on an evening before I went to sleep for the night, I fell into a trance, and the Lord appeared to me in a vision in the form of bright light, above the brightness of the sun, the same way that He did with the Apostle Paul. The Glory around His presence lifted me off my feet and knocked me backward...I tried to speak to Him, but my tongue was frozen to the roof of my mouth and I could not. I just lay there stunned and curled up in a ball. He moved in to where I was, and He told me that I was renowned before Him...This experience left me visibly shaken to the core.

A few months ago, I had contemplated leaving my wife after a disagreement, in fact I had left. She had not accepted that I became a Christian. On the night that I left, I prophesied and told her that she was going to get a visitation that evening; I did not know what the Lord was going to do.

My wife was not a Christian yet, so I kind of felt that I was justified in leaving. I knew the scriptures about living with an unbelieving spouse, that I could leave but have to remain single, and I was prepared to do that. I came under such great conviction when I left that night of terrible wrong and sin before the Lord. That night, I went to turn around and head back home after conviction fell upon me. When I did, I made it to the nearest city center (about 80 miles from home) and the Turbo broke on my car and it left me stranded in the city that night.

My wife started to pray to the Lord that night (the night I was stranded in the city), and she told the Lord in prayer that it was time that she gets her life right with Him, and made a decision to go to church. At the very moment that she said the word “time” in her prayer to the Lord, a 100 year old Seth Thomas mantle clock started ticking by itself. It has sat up on top of the Armoire in our bedroom and hadn’t been wound up for about 8 months. It is a 7 day clock and never ticks past 6 or 7 days before you have to rewind it again. It ran for twelve days straight without being rewound, and stopped on the 6th hour. 12 is the number representing the rule of God, and 6 is the number of man - The Rule of God over man.

Since this visitation where the Lord appeared to her, she has come to church with me and has given her heart to God. She was baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus, before the congregation of saints, about 3 months ago now.

About my personal calling, I do not know what the Lord is calling me to do yet (I have my convictions about it, but don’t want to share it right now). He has appeared to me in visions concerning world events, one of which has come to pass; the other is yet to come. I will tell you this though, if the second vision comes to pass, we are in for the summer/fall of hell.

In the world I was a business executive; I left a job that paid me 180k a year, because I could not in good conscience before the Lord be there as a Christian. The business owners had corrupt business practices, and were immoral men…and I left by the hand of the Lord.

In dealing with you, I can tell you that I am not a novice, and I am very knowledgeable in the scriptures. There is nothing that I won’t do for the Lord.

If the Lord commands me to leave my wife and children, I would do it without hesitation (because it is before the Lord). But He has not done this; in fact, I am to remain in the position that He has called me back to Him; this is where my conviction lies. This may change as time goes on, where the Lord will remove me for His purposes, the Lord knows.

I can tell you that my life is consecrated before Him, not with words, but with my heart and with my spirit. Not religiously as those who do not know Him, who say long and repetitious prayers and think they will be heard because of it, but of relationship and truth in the inward parts in the heart. (and there is a BIG difference) Learn this.

But this I will say to you – that the Lord will have mercy on whom He will have mercy, for His mercy is far greater than His judgment, and His forgiveness is far greater than His condemnation. Learn this too.

What more can I tell you? I am born from above, and this is my destiny. I have seen Him in His glory and He has seized the reigns of my heart. My heart yearns for Him far greater than anything in this life. He is far more to be desired, and more beautiful to my soul then anything you can imagine.

In prayer one time, I saw angels and men standing before the Throne of God worshipping Him; it was the most beautiful thing I have ever seen in my life; (the looks on their faces as they loved and worshipped Him) I was so touched by the sight, I wept bitterly after seeing it. His beauty is magnificent, and His majesty is His Crown, … He clothes Himself in beauty and all I want to do is to worship Him in the beauty of holiness, and complete and utter consecration before Him. The more I worship Him, the more I am transformed into His image. With all of my heart, with all of my strength, with my entire mind, and at the very core of my being, all I want to do, is to do what is right and holy before Him.

It can be very easy to be caught up in the letter of the law, but yet miss out on intimacy before the Lord. We all need to repent before God of our sins this is absolutley true. It's a road that we must stay on.

Don't be so caught up in the letter of the law that you miss out serving God in the Spirit. We can never be truly holy enough for God, but He accepts us just as we are as repented sinners that have been washed of our sins. We all really need to rely on Jesus to take way our sins. I used to attend a church that was very legalistic and wouldn't even allow a person to wear a wedding ring, because there is a scripture about wearing gold for ornament. Some also believe that a woman is not allowed to teach a man (says so in the bible, so what are you doing teaching me...don't you know it is a sin?). Some people believe that women have to wear a hat in church and are to be silent...says so in the bible (Paul said it)(I call the churches that make women wear hats the hatterites)Some believe that it is not permitted to eat pork, and that you must keep the sabbath on saturday only. They have sabbath school and not sunday school. Some believe that Jesus is the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit (I call them Jesus only)

There is so much confusion out there.

So where does this leave us?

Serve God in the Spirit, and He the Spirit of truth will lead us into all truth concerning everything that we need to know and observe.

So what does this say?

Know the Holy Spirit! Seek Him! ...and if you are not baptised with the Holy Spirit, you need to seek this out. Do you have any of the gifts of the Holy Spirit? Do you know that witness of the Holy Spirit? What does His presence feel like?


_________________
David

 2009/3/21 17:59Profile









 Re:

Quote:
Have you ever had the Lord appear to you? Has His Holy presence ever enveloped you? He has to me, time and time again. Even now as I write His Spirit is upon me. In my younger years, I have seen the Lord face to face in a dream (The love in His eyes when He looked at me were so intense and so beautiful, and the glory around him melted my spirit within me, and His glory caught me up.

Okay, were getting off topic. But what has this got to do with anything? Does the LORD appearing before you make Ginnyrose or any of us any less significant? Let not these experiences make you more than what you are.....in Christ like the rest of us. Maybe your a finger to point the way, but is the liver that is not seen worthless? Maybe Ginnyrose is the liver in the body of Christ to filter out the garbage, all she sees is bad stuff and she works with it to cleanse the body of impurities. She doesn't see visions or dreams, but she has a joy that where she is at is where the LORD put her and she is happy to be there and people are drawn by her meek and mild spirit. You have supernatural experiences, but she may have had been down the road with terrible trials that will stable her walk and cause her to stable others in Jesus name. But each of you is not any less than the other, each one is doing the masters job. You don't say to the liver, "Hey liver, have you seen visions like I have and had the LORD melt your heart?" The liver responds, "No, but I've seen a Christian that almost lost all hope, but after travailing and casting out this impurity that just wouldn't go, at the last, it was purged". To me, after hearing that, I would give up any vision to be placed in that position to be used of God. To see one Christian Brother or Sister be revived is worth more than anything.

 2009/3/21 19:22





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