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 Re:

Quote:
I have a question for you and would like an honest answer. Are you a Roman Catholic? And do you attend a Catholic Monastery?

:-P I don't think she is Earendel, whatever denomination it is, I bet the standards are as high as the moon. Been there done that.

Now on to more serious matters. Did God sin when He divorced Israel? Everyone is saying that divorce is an abomination unto God, is God an abomination? God forbid. Consider;
Quote:
Jeremiah 3:8 And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also.

 2009/3/20 10:08









 Re:

Eze 9:4 And Jehovah said to him, Go through in the midst of the city, in the midst of Jerusalem, and set a mark on the foreheads of the men who are groaning and are mourning because of all the abominations that are done in her midst.

This is the remnant. This is the people that God spared, the rest were killed. Does that Scripture have modern day application? Yes, I believe that it does. The Spirit of God never changes. Injustice is intolerable, it grieves the Spirit. The state of the people always lies heavy upon the heart of God's people.

In Ezekiel chapter nine there are men with battle-axes, one has an inkhorn and he puts a mark upon God's people, His remnant. And the criteria for the mark? A grieving spirit over the Godless state. In Revelation, there is another group of people who have God's mark on their heads, these are the people who too were grieved and understood the state of things. These are the people who refused to conform to the world and take the worlds mark, thus leaving room on their forehead for God's mark. Nothing has changed.

So, the notion of being tired of hearing about the state of the church is not a notion of love for the church. Its a selfish notion, a self-centered notion. "Better the smite of a friend than the kiss of an enemy."..........Frank

 2009/3/20 10:37
Earendel
Member



Joined: 2009/3/17
Posts: 308
Central Alberta, Canada

 Re:

Quote:

DeepThinker wrote:
Quote:
I have a question for you and would like an honest answer. Are you a Roman Catholic? And do you attend a Catholic Monastery?

:-P I don't think she is Earendel, whatever denomination it is, I bet the standards are as high as the moon. Been there done that.

Now on to more serious matters. Did God sin when He divorced Israel? Everyone is saying that divorce is an abomination unto God, is God an abomination? God forbid. Consider;
Quote:
Jeremiah 3:8 And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also.




The R/C church is apostate concerning the gospel of Jesus Christ for many reasons, teaching damnible heresies.

Regardless of the R/C's posting on this board, Divorce is wrong, and is a sin period. Having said that, divorce is not the unforgivable sin, even for some of those who have remarried ( I say some because I don't think all have repented). My first wife divorced me after a very rocky marriage and married another, making it impossible for there to ever be any reconciliation...that was in 1995. I have forgiven her, and I hope that she and her husband finds repentance and salvation. So, is she to divorce the one to whom she has been married for almost 15 years and live single? NO, she is to repent of her sins, and walk with God and sin no more.

I am remarried for almost 7 years now, we have 4 children as well, she has one child from a previous marriage, as do I, and we have 2 together. We own a home and a business together.

I have returned to the Lord, and have made repentance before Him; I have given Him my heart in love forever. I have received Him, and He has received me. I have a very powerful testimony as to how the Lord brought me back to Him.

...I did not seek Him out, He sought me out in a very profound and supernatural way. I posted my testimony here:
http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=27966&forum=45&3

There are some who would say my repentance is not true, because I will not leave the woman to whom I am married. They would have me believe it is right before God to abandon my wife and children and leave them fatherless and my wife a single mother, ...making this sin worse then the first. I cannot abandon them, and I believe I have the Holy Spirit on this.

I can attest to the fact that the Holy Spirit has returned to me, whom I know, and he has placed is seal upon me. If you have ever been baptised in the Holy Spirit, you know what it is that I am talking about. God cannot abide in sin, and if He has not forgiven me, the Holy Spirit would not have returned to me, but He has.

So I will stand on the testimony which the Holy Spirit has given concerning my repentance and forgiveness of my sins.

Since my return to the Lord, my wife and my children have accepted Jesus into their lives and attend church with me at the local pentecostal church.


_________________
David

 2009/3/20 11:31Profile
Miccah
Member



Joined: 2007/9/13
Posts: 1752
Wisconsin

 Re:

DeepThinker wrote:

Quote:



Did God sin when He divorced Israel?




Context my friend. Read the entire chapter. The Lord is calling for His people to come back to Him which have already turned from Him. He is allowing those who do not want to be His, to depart from Him forever. Those that would turn back to Him, would not be divorced from Him for eternity. Never to be in His presence.

Context context context.

Read Jeremiah 4:1-2


_________________
Christiaan

 2009/3/20 11:31Profile









 Yet Again---to brother David, "Earendel"

to my brother in the Lord,

I entitled this post "yet again", because in my years on this forum, the "divorce/remarriage" conundrum rears its ugly pharrisaical head YET AGAIN, with an ever changing cast of characters pronouncing SIN, upon the heads of God fearing, born-again followers of Jesus who remarry, they heap scorn, heap burdens upon others without even really knowing the situation of the individual. The individual heart of a person, and what Jesus the Holy Ghost speaks into this heart.

I am with you brother. My unbelieveing ex-wife divorced me after I began to follow Jesus, and re-married another man. For his sake, she went thru the roman catechism. I said nothing, when she served my pastor, my mentor with the divorce papers, I had to lie down on the floor of his office and weep, and then we talked, and we prayed, and we decided, I would not contest this divorce or cause any upset, to her, or to our son.

Now, praise be to God, she has fled romanism and went back into a Full Gospel, Bible believing Church, and the man she married is a fine man, and to this very day, we three are strong friends, as my son lives under their roof, and his son from another woman, who died, is very very dear to my heart, I love the lad...both young men, and my ex-wife and her husband, with agape love, that only the Holy Spirit can fill me with.

and for those who say, she should divorce him, I say "get behind me satan!" for those who adjudge them as sinners, I say "woe to you pharisee's, you white washed tombs, who heap burdens on men's back, you couldnt even bear!"

I have stayed single, because I am trusting in the Lord. If He brings me a mate, a good God honoring woman, Praise His Name. If He doesn't, Praise His Name! God is sovereign and He loves us. Jesus sees my loneliness, longing for a mate, who is a partner, a friend, a best friend, a helpmate, a lover, and if He deems it that I meet such a lovely woman, sweet in spirit,God honoring, then it will be so.

I could write so much more, about those who itch for the chance to rebuke others, oh, these rebukers know the letter of the law, they know not the Spirit of Grace...and they can now argue and refute me, as that is their wont, but I will say no more, except to say to you David, may God bless, protect and love the family He has gifted you with. In Jesus Name, I pray, shalom, neil

 2009/3/20 15:26









 Re:

Quote:
So, the notion of being tired of hearing about the state of the church is not a notion of love for the church. Its a selfish notion, a self-centered notion. "Better the smite of a friend than the kiss of an enemy."..........Frank

I am soooooooo glad that the Word of God does not end with you. If avoiding negativity makes me selfish, then I am glad I am selfish.

Miccah, not everything has to be in context. You can preach on one sentence, one verse and open a whole world of deep truths. "Context Context Context", who says??

***********************************************
Second post:

About six months ago my Sister and her Husband were having some major troubles. He stepped out on her multiple times. She called me one night bawling her head off, saying "What am I going to do?" and because of this pain, she was drinking at the time, which for her is her relief valve. So she continued her grief and kept asking me if divorce was the best thing. I kept on telling her that divorce was not the best option, that she was able to endure this and to turn the tide in her marriage. All the time that I was talking to her, I can hear her husband crying in the back ground saying, "forgive me, I'll change, give me a chance, I am sorry". And this went on and on. I was able to get her husband on the phone and gave him a sore rebuke. She kept on telling me that divorce is the only way and that he will only do it again. Finally after being hounded, I said the D word. I told her, if you are so dead on in doing it, then all I can say is that you'll have to do what you think is right.

Now you have to understand my Sister. When she gets a little tipsy, all that she said would have been forgotten, in this case it was a good thing. Today, she and her husband are always together. He has changed considerably. They are doing things together and he is doing things around the house that you couldn't get him to do before. They are on the computer together. They have found the secret of being open and not holding back secrets. Their marriage is a work in progress and the LORD is in there somewhere helping them along. His escapades were frequent, every day it was awful, the pain that he put my Sister through. She had every right to divorce him, but one thing that kept her fighting for him, was the fact that she loved him. I told her, "Sis, I know that you love him, you just can't understand why he did what he did". The feeling of rejection and saying, "What is wrong with my body that he should seek out another?". These are thoughts that go through a woman's mind.

Every situation is different and before anyone raises a hand of condemnation against anyone who has gone to the brink of divorce, consider your own lives carefully, because just as much as you speak condemnation towards another, you will find yourselves in the divorce courts. I say this with fear because I have seen those that have hurled stones at those that have divorced and they themselves are divorced today.

 2009/3/20 16:58
HeartSong
Member



Joined: 2006/9/13
Posts: 3156


 Re:

[b]Mark 6:18[/b]

For John had said unto Herod,
It is not lawful for thee to have thy brother's wife.

 2009/3/20 17:13Profile









 Re:

Deepthinker...what a strange notion to even suggest that the word of God would end with me ?? What has avoiding negativity got to do with anything, there is nothing negative about God or the people that He uses to remind the church about ts state. Perhaps a little deep thinking is required :).......Frank

 2009/3/20 17:52
Miccah
Member



Joined: 2007/9/13
Posts: 1752
Wisconsin

 Re:

DeepThinker wrote:

Quote:


Miccah, not everything has to be in context. You can preach on one sentence, one verse and open a whole world of deep truths. "Context Context Context", who says??




I'm sorry Deepthinker, I thought that you asked a Biblical question about God and divorce. I was trying to give you a Biblical answer for your question. If you are looking to proof-text your questions and answers, I can do that as well... but that would be taking the Word of the Lord out of context.

[url=http://jmm.aaa.net.au/articles/14435.htm]Proof-texting[/url]


_________________
Christiaan

 2009/3/20 21:52Profile
utilizer001
Member



Joined: 2008/2/15
Posts: 83
Oregon

 Re:

I am always saddened by how many can not read and understand what is in black and white before them.

For those looking for context, I provide this.

Mat 5:31 It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement:
Mat 5:32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.
Mat 5:33 Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths:
Mat 5:34 But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne:
Mat 5:35 Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King.

In verses 31 and 32, Christ is openly rebuking divorce. But so many seem to overlook how verse 32 is structured.

Mat 5:32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.

Somehow people make the words between the comma's mean more than the subject of the statement. If we use the grammar skills we should have learned in grade school, we should note that Christ is saying "That if you put your wife away, you cause her to be an adulteress. Unless she is already an adulteress." The exception clause comes from an inability to understand grammar and punctuation.

I myself had to spend hours praying to God asking Him if I was reading this correctly, as so many pastors have preached the exception clause in my ears. Every place I read through the Word, this heresy of a "clause" (more a excuse to continue on in sin) was put down in light of scripture.

If we look later in Matthew,
Mat 19:3 The Pharisees also came unto him, tempting him, and saying unto him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife for every cause?
Mat 19:4 And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made [them] at the beginning made them male and female,
Mat 19:5 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?
Mat 19:6 Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.
Mat 19:7 They say unto him, Why did Moses then command to give a writing of divorcement, and to put her away?
Mat 19:8 He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so.
Mat 19:9 And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except [it be] for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.

Note a key comment by Christ: Mat 19:8 He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so.

Also note the same commas in Mat 19:9 that are present in Mat 5:32.

Now, I will not say that God does not have grace and mercy upon His children. I can't say that all who are remarried should divorce, and seek their spouse that they made a vow to God to remain married to until death, but I can say that God does work in many different ways.

I look at my mother, and see her on her 4th husband. My blood father was her first, and the man I knew as dad was her third. Through my eyes I would seek her and her third husband to be reconciled. But this isn't what scripture teaches.

I see others, who have remarried, and whom God has blessed, giving grace to cover the ongoing sin of adultery. (Yes, it is adultery. Christ makes that very clear in stating that anyone who married a divorced person is committing adultery. You can argue all you want, but that is what Jesus Christ said multiple times.) God's mercy and grace is defiantly sufficient to cover their sin.

And I know of a couple, a man and a woman who divorced their spouses to "marry" each other, got saved after their adulterous relationship was enforced by man made laws, who woke up in the middle of the night, turned to each other and said, "This is wrong, and we need to make it right with our real spouses." The divorced in the eyes of the world, and remarried their respective spouses, and both couple are a burning light for God.

And finally, when my wife left me for a man she had known for 13 days, I turned to seek God's will. His will for me is to seek my wife's salvation. I love her more than anyone in this world, and as an adulteress, who has turned her back on the faith of Christ, she will burn in hell if she does not repent and be saved. This is not an easy burden to bear. But Christ gives strength to complete the order He's given me. If those of you who are divorced hate your spouse so much as to stop seeking their salvation and praying for them, in spite of the fact that they are the one person God called you to lay your life down for, and joined you together commanding you not to divide this joining asunder, then you are guilty of the sin of murder, as Christ himself said.

For those of you seeking that God would save your prodigal spouse, restore your marriage, heal your family, and return both parents to any children that may be involved, I let you know this, you are not alone. There are hundreds of thousands of us out here praying for your marriage and family, as we pray for our own. God does work miracles, He does restore the years that the locust has eaten, and He has restored many marriages through out the years. And if you've ever listened to Bill McLeod talk about the Canadian revival of the 70's, marriages were restored both by bringing singles back to their divorced spouses, and by breaking up non-covenant marriages. The same is true of the Lancaster revival of '51. There is a pattern of God doing things that just do not fit our limited theology or definitions of what He must do.

God bless you all,
Jason Smith
Standing in faith for the healing of his marriage, the salvation of his wife, and the working of the impossible by God the Father in the name of His Son, Christ Jesus.


_________________
Jason Smith

 2009/3/20 22:11Profile





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