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Earendel
Member



Joined: 2009/3/17
Posts: 308
Central Alberta, Canada

 Re:

PRAISE BREAK...
Let's Love Him who called us out of this world...
Love HIM with me...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HfiacfoxSwc&feature=related


Oh Lord we cry out!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qVtLFm0AbyE

How He Loves Us!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JoC1ec-lYps




_________________
David

 2009/3/19 1:27Profile
wind_blows
Member



Joined: 2009/1/4
Posts: 353


 Re:

Hey

So I have read this thread all the way through and I am feeling utterly confused. This topic of marriage and remarriage has been on my heart for along time now and its one that really cuts deeply. As a young girl it really effected me when my dad walked out on my mom. I watched her life become a shambles as she searched for understanding.I saw the hurt in her eyes and the expression on her face.SO much sadness, so much pain. I watched my dad walk away and even though he has kind of stayed in touch(I hear from him once year) things have never been the same since that time. My mother lost her husband and I lost my dad. And sadly that is what happens in most cases of divorce it effects everyone. It leaves scars. It hurts deeply and even little ones know that when a divorce happens its just not right, deep down inside they know that something is happening that was not meant to happen and it stays with you.

As far as remarrying goes after a divorce I don't know right now what the answer is. I am seeking to know Gods heart in all of this. This is a painful topic for me and maybe it is for others to. Maybe there are those of us with deep hurts and past stories that make up who and what each of us is now, perhaps there is room to step back for a time and to pray for one another instead of hurling accusations and names at each other. I will be praying for all of you tonight...

Just a thought and prayer
your little sis in Him
Elizabeth



 2009/3/19 1:56Profile
Miccah
Member



Joined: 2007/9/13
Posts: 1752
Wisconsin

 Re

Edit* Post removed by me.


_________________
Christiaan

 2009/3/19 3:11Profile
Lysa
Member



Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3396
This world is not my home anymore.

 Re: Divorce and Remarriage

Quote:
wind_blows wrote:
As far as remarrying goes after a divorce I don't know right now what the answer is. I am seeking to know Gods heart in all of this. This is a painful topic for me and maybe it is for others to. Maybe there are those of us with deep hurts and past stories that make up who and what each of us is now, perhaps there is room to step back for a time and to pray for one another instead of hurling accusations and names at each other. I will be praying for all of you tonight...

Just a thought and prayer
your little sis in Him
Elizabeth


To Elizabeth and all,

I'm sorry if I've helped contribute to your confusion. I hold to the New Covenant that says it's not by anything I have not done or done that makes me worthy in His eyes, it's by Him willingly pouring out His blood and His resurrection alone that makes me worthy!! Romans 7.24-8.1

Now this is just my own personal assumptions and they could be wrong! But I think some people's (not necessary those on SI, but one's I've dealt with personally); I believe they are driven to be against certain so-called sins because of fear. 1. Fear that if they've lived like this or with this, so should everyone else too; but more importantly if you're forgiven, why have they lived like that for so long? 2. Fear that if they agree that God does indeed forgive certain sins, then the floodgates will open and GOD HELP US ALL!! (I'm sure there are more but these are off the top of my heart.)

Quote:
BillPro wrote:
It says in James 2:10, "for whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one [point], he is guilty of all." By this standard we are all guilty of breaking every commandment, which means we will go to hell because of the wretched sinful person we are.



Amen Bill! They are fine but we are not! They are pure, we are not. They are holy, we surely can't be being divorced and all! By the Bible I have, that makes them having no need of a physican! I stand by what I said before, [i]God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble[/i] (James 4.6), whether the humble are murderers, adulters, or divorced. God does indeed give grace to the humble.

I have tried to be faithful to the Word of God as I understand it and stay by the stuff and provoke to love for those who are in need of a physican. The greatest of these is Charity, so I will trust God - through the Holy Spirit - to work in another person's life and tell them that they are wrong and can't marry. I am willing to stand before God and let HIM tell me that I was wrong for loving too much and therefore I can't get in. When I hear it from HIS voice, I will believe it, not from any man or woman's.

But I do leave this discussion with this unanswered question (You know, Miccah said he was leaving the discussion on page two and he came back, (or do I need to reread that again?) [huge grin]; anyway I get come back too, if need be; in love of course!! LOL).... Here's the question...

[b][i]Is Christ a respecter of persons or is He not. Acts 10:34 Yes or no?[/b][/i]

I've noticed that no one on the other side of this discussion has answered this! I challenge any one who cannot answer this question with a resounding "NO, He is no respecter of persons" that you are preaching a false gospel and it will be of none effect.


_________________
Lisa

 2009/3/19 8:13Profile
wind_blows
Member



Joined: 2009/1/4
Posts: 353


 Re:

To Lysa and whomever

after a long night and much prayer I just wanted to come back and say one last thing. For me personally I believe that there is no blanket answer to apply here in this situation of divorce and remarriage. I believe that only with walking with brothers and sister daily in Him that we are going to really see where there heart is and know what their fruit is, in order to discern if they belong to Him. Only in living and caring for each other daily will we really know them by their fruit. For my dad his divorce and subsequent remarriages of two other women is sin, something he still has not repented of.He sadly is very selfish man who is unwilling to see the truth. I can say this because I know him. For others like murrcolr they have sought out the Lord and walked in His will daily loving Him and their spouses, been faithful and the fruit they produce reveals that, then I believe God honors those marriages. Perhaps its not a one size fits all kind of answer but it is what I am seeing at this time.


Please understand that when I said there was pain and past stories and that maybe we could all take a step back for a time and pray for each other I was speaking of both sides of this. I think that divorce hurts but I know with out a doubt that Jesus blood covers and heals. Not everyone is being judgmental or a pharisee some of us are seeking to know and understand what the Lords heart is, some of us are growing, perhaps we should all learn to choose are words more carefully instead of responding in the moment was all I meant to say.

So anyhow, I just wanted to share what the Lord put on my heart before I leave. I have also decided that I am going to leave this thread and SI forum. This is a wonderful site with great teachings, and a lot of wonderful people but its not the place for me I have come to realize. So thanks for listening and letting me share.


your little sis in Him
Elizabeth

 2009/3/19 9:38Profile
murrcolr
Member



Joined: 2007/4/25
Posts: 1529
Scotland, UK

 Re:

Quote:
murrcolr wrote:
Guys/Girls

What will you do if the man who God choses to led the next Move of God is married to divorcee?


Quote:
HomeFree89 on 2009/3/16 15:02
Question whether or not God really picked the man and wonder whether or not it is truly a move of God



Quote:
But I do not see anyone saying that you are condemned or not saved because of your divorce.



Maybe you don't but I ask what that person means when he said “Question whether or not God really picked the man and wonder whether or not it is truly a move of God“

They don't think that God could use a man married to a divorcee to be the leader of the next Move of God because of what they have been taught and they have been taught that anyone married to divorcee lives in sin even though that person has turned to Christ and has been regenerated by Gods spirit.

There are some that would even go as far to say that they must divorce there current partner and go and be reconciled with there first partner. They just don’t seem to see how twisted that is, the very thing they claim to be standing against is the thing they teach to do.

Quote:
Miccah wrote:

This whole post truly sickens me. I have never seen so many "Christians" justify their sinful actions then I have in this one thread.



We are not trying to justify our sin but point out to you, how great God is. That he can take the mess that we get in because of sin and turn it around, he can take the pain, the hurt, the bitterness and unforgiveness out the heart of the child that has seen there Father or Mother leave, he can also do that same for the spouse.

But he can also change the man or the woman that walked out on the family. He could do such a work in his life that he could make him the leader of a Move of God. But there are some that believe that God could not do such a thing. Because of the teaching they have been taught.

Quote:
Yes we do brother. We are some of them as well. And it is because of the love AND the fear of the Lord that many here council against divorce.



Then if you undersatnd it so much then why have you taken offense and then proceed to scold me with your words and then you think that in some way that your words will bring conviction on me.

As for me I do not feel one little drop of conviction, It only made me come up with another question why did you react so strongly to a man who would share what he was like, and what God did for that man and then say it sickens you.

Here in a nutshell is what I believe the law has a purpose and that purpose is to bring us to Christ. Gal 3:24 Once we have come to Christ we have no need for the law as we have begun a new life in the spirit. Gal 3:25 Are we to be like the Galatians who started in the spirit but then tried to be perfected by going back to the law. Gal 3:3-5 We have begun in the spirit and should be perfected by the spirit and should allow the spirit to do that work in us.

Gal 3: 22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.


_________________
Colin Murray

 2009/3/19 12:55Profile
Miccah
Member



Joined: 2007/9/13
Posts: 1752
Wisconsin

 Re:

murrcolr wrote:

Quote:




Then if you undersatnd it so much then why have you taken offense and then proceed to scold me with your words and then you think that in some way that your words will bring conviction on me.


As for me I do not feel one little drop of conviction, It only made me come up with another question why did you react so strongly to a man who would share what he was like, and what God did for that man and then say it sickens you.




Yea, sometimes I can be a bonehead and not explain myself as well as I should. I pray in the future that I can convey what my heart truly says through the writen words on this website accuratly.


Regardless of the situation on right or wrong about divorce and re-mariage, I want to take this time to appologize and ask for forgiveness for my harsh tone. I intended to stay out of this conversation and then went back on my own words. That was wrong.

I wanted to convey my disgust for justification of sin, and it came off as condemning all. That was not my intent and I appologize for not being able to convey it clearly.

So ask for forgiveness for my faults. I am not perfect and am continually being molded by the Lord. I have a long way to go, but I am excited for the journey! :-)

1 Peter 3:8-22



_________________
Christiaan

 2009/3/19 13:23Profile
Earendel
Member



Joined: 2009/3/17
Posts: 308
Central Alberta, Canada

 Re:

Quote:

DeepThinker wrote:
Ok, lets open this up a bit. Let me tell you a story, a true story.

A Christian couple were having problems. The woman decided to divorce her husband. There was no infidelity on his part, she wanted a divorce. The church sided with the woman that this was the best course of action. There was no room for reconciliation she wanted it out. So she divorced him.

Question: Can he remarry?



When any divorce is obtained on non-biblical grounds, and one of the parties remarries, that person has committed adultery since God never recognized the divorce as legitimate (Matthew 5:32; Mark 10:11). Since the remarried partner has “committed adultery,” the marriage bond in now broken and the remaining partner is free to remarry.

...I give my judgment, as one that hath obtained mercy of the Lord to be faithful. 1 Corinthians 7:25

Do you not know that we shall judge angels? How much more, things that pertain to this life? 1 Corinthians 6:3


I want to give my judgment concerning this, not as one who stands ready to condemn others, but as one who has obtained mercy from the Lord Jesus; so I will speak. I do this, not to speak out of place, or to speak out of line, but to do this to build up the body of Christ in edification, and comfort of the Holy Spirit. Ephesians 4:12

I do this to share good judgment, and mercies that I have obtained from the Lord Jesus Christ.

I am going to base the judgment that these two are Christians (Born again I presume, and not some other religion or cult)


My judgment:

Based on what you have shared here, and without further information, it is not permitted that either of these two should seek a divorce. But you have stated that the woman has divorced her husband, which, according to scripture frees the man from bondage to her.

My first response here is reconciliation if possible, before remarriage. Better still, stay single and love God...but not eveyone will be able to do that.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

If a husband and wife are already in the body of Christ, and have been sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, they should seek God for repentance and forgiveness, and forgiveness for each other.

If a wife or husband wants to leave for no reason other then they just don't want to be married to that person anymore, just so they can go and marry someone else, then there are obviously other issues here with the one who wants to leave. This person’s heart, that wants to leave, is not right before the Lord.

If he/she separates from their spouse, they are to remain unmarried, or else be reconciled to their spouse; divorce/remarriage is not permitted in this case.


A person is permitted, as per Matthew 5:32 to divorce their spouse for sexually immoral sins (adultery, bestiality, sodomy etc.), The spouse is no longer bound in this case, and is free to divorce and remarry if he/she so chooses, but only in the Lord.

Now the Lord would intervene before the next scenario would take place I am sure: If a man was abusive (violent because of alcoholic rage, anger or for some other reason) to point that that he forced his wife to leave for her own safety and that of her children, then this man's heart is not right before the Lord.

If it becomes apparent, that the Spirit of the Lord has left this man, then my judgment here is separation, followed by Godly council.

The man should be brought before Godly council of the elect brethren, and attempts mad to restore him - as per Galatians 6:1 (Brethren, if a man is overtaken in any trespass, you who are spiritual restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness, considering yourself lest you also be tempted.) If the man agrees to heed Godly council, and repents before the Lord, and becomes contrite and broken in his spirit with repentance, and it is viewed by all that he is remorseful for what he has done, and he is washed of his sins in the blood of the Lamb before the Lord, then they can make reconciliation together.



What about apostasy? If the man departs as an unbeliever from the assembly of the church body, he has in effect resisted the council of God. In the case of backsliding or apostasy, where a man will not heed the Godly council of the elect brethren, but chooses to depart from the Godly assembly and commits spiritual adultery, then let him be as an unbeliever.

Concerning the unbelieveing partner: The Bible speaks directly to this kind of situation in 1 Corinthians 7:12-16: “But to the rest I, not the Lord, say: If any brother has a wife who does not believe, and she is willing to dwell with him, let him not divorce her. And the woman who has a husband who does not believe, if he is willing to dwell with her, let her not divorce him. For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband; otherwise your children would be unclean, but now they are holy. But if the unbeliever departs, let him depart; a brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases. But God has called us to peace. “For how do you know, O wife, whether you will save your husband? Or how do you know, O husband, whether you will save your wife?”

The principles here are also very clear:

1. If the unbelieving partner desires to preserve the marriage, the believing partner has no freedom to divorce him/her.

2. If the unbelieving partner chooses to leave and sue for divorce, the believing partner is to let him/her depart. In such cases the believing partner is free to remarry, but “only in the Lord”. (1 Corinthians 7:39)


Further, concering backsliders, we are not exempt from making further attempts to win back our fallen brother if possible, as per James 5:19-20

Concerning the fallen brother:

… Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins. James 5:19-20


I found this article online after I written most of this out, and used it in part.

Take the time to read it:
http://www.mcleanbible.org/pages/page.asp?page_id=3723

My hope and prayer to God is that all who have taken the time to read what I have posted here will be comforted in the Holy Spirit. I speak encouragement in the name of Jesus regarding this issue.




_________________
David

 2009/3/19 15:18Profile
murrcolr
Member



Joined: 2007/4/25
Posts: 1529
Scotland, UK

 Re:

Quote:

Miccah wrote:
So ask for forgiveness for my faults. I am not perfect and am continually being molded by the Lord. I have a long way to go, but I am excited for the journey!



No problems, lets move on.


_________________
Colin Murray

 2009/3/19 15:38Profile









 Re:

I don't think there is one person on this thread who thinks divorce is the answer to a marital problem. And I don't think there is anyone here who does not think divorce is a sin. Wires are getting crossed here in my view.

One view here seems to say:

Obedience is a must, the Bible clearly states that divorce and remarriage is sinful and for people to just seemingly dismiss it is an afront to God. Very true, but this only applies if they are dismissing it or justifying it. Do those who are divorced and remarried condone this behavior? Do they believe it is God's remedy? Does it sadden those to have gone through a divorce, not merely because of the consequences, but because it offended God? Are those who were divorced and remarried BEFORE they were converted have regret that in their ignorance that they offended God? Would they recommend divorce and remarriage to justify marrital problems (excluding the extreme spousal abuses or scenarios that put one in physical danger)? I don't see anyone really calling sin 'okay' in a justifiable manner. Understand that many people are deeply wounded by their past, not because they have done this to themselves, but they had deeply offended God and cannot change that fact. It's heartwrenching stuff that involves more than one party, possibly children, and takes a significant emotional toll on those affected. This isn't an "oh Lord I'm so sorry I stole that candy bar, or disobeyed my parents" type of past. As sinful as those are, those sins do not possess lasting scar tissue that comes from intense emotional involvement from a past divorce. If you have not been through it then you cannot understand the defensive posture someone might hold in having to re-live it every time the subject comes up. They have shamed themselves enough through the process, and it doesn't help when they have to re-live the sin or continually justify themselves as a child of God. I believe that justification of sin is the same as condoning it. I'm not seeing that here.

The other view is:

"I've sinned in many ways including divorce and or remarriage and it's not something I'm proud of but I'm a living example of God's mercy which also endureth forever."

People have wept profusely over their sin like David, and also shouted in joy in God's mercy and grace. They want to speak of how wonderful God was to them when He lifted them from the pit of past sin that has brought them nothing but trouble and shame. They want to tell the world that despite their sinful past, we have a God who will forgive a sinner and sent His Son to pay the penalty. They want people to know that there is no higher love than the love displayed by a Father who asked His Son to take our place, and have that Son gladly give up the riches of heaven to do just that. They want people to know that there is pardon for a humble, contrite, and repentant sinner. They rejoice that the slate has been wiped clean from a past they could never change and can now move forward in obedience and hope in Jesus Christ. God has been faithful to them in their most desperate of times and they want to share that.

They are not for sin or against obedience but they REPRESENT A LIVING HOPE FOR THOSE WHO BELIEVE THEY ARE TOO FAR GONE TO BE A CHILD OF GOD THROUGH HIS GRACE. What a lie from the pit of hell!! It is satan's highest priority to cheapen the blood of Christ, to say that His sacrifice wasn't enough to forgive and wash clean a sinner. To cheapen the resurrection by saying that the Spirit of God cannot come and dwell in 'certain people' when clearly they have been changed in a way no self-willed flesh could possibly attain. I don't see that much here either, but it does exist. Ravenhill said that the Holy Spirit came to 'make dead men live'. If He's not here to dwell in the confessing sinner who wants to be righteous and obedient then who is He for?

But I also think those who have been divorced and or remarried react emotionally to these issues as it pertains to sin and may take what someone is saying out of context in a defensive posture. Some may just be pointing out that divorce is sin, remarriage is sin, and that we must speak against it as such as sin but not as a sin that is unpardonable. Some, I know have this view, but I'm not speaking of them... just those who feel it is important to speak of obedience with the same importance and weight as God's mercy. Both are for the Christian, both are necessary, both (in their PROPER CONTEXT AND PERSPECTIVE)glorify God.

I got this off of Paul Washer's website describing an audio sermon (his or another pastor) which states this:

"Man can argue with an argument, but not a changed life."

 2009/3/19 15:49





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