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ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7471
Mississippi

 Re:

Earendel,

I can easily see you are on a journey and it is not my responsibility to evaluate you on your journey. Your experiences with supernatural events do not impress me since the enemy can counterfeit God's miraculous works. The proof of a person's relationship with God lies in his life, his walk, in his obedience to the WORD: is he/she a sinner or a saint?

Am I being legalistic? I have been called that ... But I also know we have the written word to guide us into ALL truth. This is what God gave to us to teach us what He is like and what His children 'look' like. If any fall short, who claim to be religious but whose lifestyle do not reflect a regeneration by the Spirit of God we must mark that person.

Jesus says if ye love me, keep my commandments...so is being obedient to them being legalistic? Is it too much to expect other Believers to also follow the same 'rule'? Granted, doing things will not earn one heaven. Obedience comes as a result of a walk with the LORD. It means that we have Jesus' righteousness operating in our lives and this is what it looks like!

Abraham was called righteous because he Believed God and how was that demonstrated? He believed God asked him to offer his son and so he obeyed...simple, don't you think? I do.

Am I in violation of scripture by sharing what Paul says about women teaching men? If I recall the scripture this is referring to the church assembly...I am not aware that this forum is called a church assembly.

You scoff at females who 'wear hats'..I beg you, why do you do so? Have you any idea why some do? Sir, your attitude troubles me still...

Blessings,
ginnyrose


_________________
Sandra Miller

 2009/3/22 23:11Profile
Earendel
Member



Joined: 2009/3/17
Posts: 308
Central Alberta, Canada

 Re:

Quote:

ginnyrose wrote:
Earendel,

I can easily see you are on a journey and it is not my responsibility to evaluate you on your journey. Your experiences with supernatural events do not impress me since the enemy can counterfeit God's miraculous works. The proof of a person's relationship with God lies in his life, his walk, in his obedience to the WORD: is he/she a sinner or a saint?

Am I being legalistic? I have been called that ... But I also know we have the written word to guide us into ALL truth. This is what God gave to us to teach us what He is like and what His children 'look' like. If any fall short, who claim to be religious but whose lifestyle do not reflect a regeneration by the Spirit of God we must mark that person.

Jesus says if ye love me, keep my commandments...so is being obedient to them being legalistic? Is it too much to expect other Believers to also follow the same 'rule'? Granted, doing things will not earn one heaven. Obedience comes as a result of a walk with the LORD. It means that we have Jesus' righteousness operating in our lives and this is what it looks like!

Abraham was called righteous because he Believed God and how was that demonstrated? He believed God asked him to offer his son and so he obeyed...simple, don't you think? I do.

Am I in violation of scripture by sharing what Paul says about women teaching men? If I recall the scripture this is referring to the church assembly...I am not aware that this forum is called a church assembly.

You scoff at females who 'wear hats'..I beg you, why do you do so? Have you any idea why some do? Sir, your attitude troubles me still...

Blessings,
ginnyrose



You say that you can easily see that I am on my journey in one breath, but then in another breath you imply that my experiences might be a counterfeit by satan, of God's miraculous works. Which is it, it can't be both?

Sister, I wasn't scoffing. If a woman wants to wear a hat in church that is her business, I am not against it at all; I just think it is wrong for people in some churches to make it a law that a woman HAS TO DO THIS (and some do). ...that's all. It's legalism not holiness!
*Big Sigh*
The same group of people say a woman is not allowed to cut her hair, or to teach. I read in the book of Acts that some women were prophetesses. I see nothing wrong with a woman teaching if she is doing so by the Spirit of God.

I am going to go by the word of God and my convictions of the Holy Spirit in regards to these matters. I am not living in sin, but you insist that I am. You would have me leave my small children, (my 4 year old daughter is sitting next to me right now) and to abandon them, and to divorce my wife of 7 years.

Sister, you have misinterpreted scripture and I would admonish you to go back before God and ask Him about this. Ask Him to send His Holy Spirit to show you.
*Big Sigh Again*
I know that God overlooks a lot of our faults and blesses us anyway.

You say: [i]"But I also know we have the written word to guide us into ALL truth". [/i]

The written word of God says: However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, [b]He will guide you into all truth[/b]; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come. John 16:13

I know that the Spirit of God has come back to me; I know His presence, and anointing. I have made a commitment and a promise to God that I am going to raise my children to know Him, and I will do just that. :-)

You said: [color=000000]"Sir, your attitude troubles me still...[/color]

I say, I bless you in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ. May His love shine, through His Holy Spirit, to open and soften your heart and allow you to see with new eyes. Revelation 3:18-19


_________________
David

 2009/3/23 1:03Profile
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7471
Mississippi

 Re:

Earendel,

You have been very gracious in your reply - for this I thank you.

I am sad that you have become involved with others - produced sweet innocent children who potentially will suffer because of parents' disobedience....

Earendel, I am not as ignorant of divorce and its ramifications as you may believe: I have one aunt, one uncle, and 16 cousins who have been involved in it. I have also worked at a CPC for 15 years and had to deal with it there. I also have an uncle who was left by his wife (who left for another man) and then remarried; lived with her for 24 years until he surrendered to the Holy Spirit's conviction to leave her - and this was after producing 5 more children. (BTW, this family were Pentecostals - attended an Assembly of God church.) In my exposure to divorce/remarriage I see nothing but disaster: the family has been destroyed and continues to be destroyed. The children are rebellion personified (drugs, illegitimacy, truce-breakers, etc.) ... so sad and it is not necessary!

Sir, I grieve for my cousins and their children - as you see I have seen it first-hand, close-up. I also have seen what covenant marriages produce - the contrast it revealing. The Enemy is working hard to deceive and has succeeded in many places.

BTW, I am no longer a spring chicken, having seen 61 summers and fixing to add another one shortly unless the LORD returns. And have been married for 41 1/2 years to the same man. :-)

Shall I share a story real quick? At CPC I had clients who wanted to abort their babies. After sharing with them why it is not in their best interests to do, many have responded like this: "but I think God will understand: my situation is so bad and I cannot handle another child. I will have my abortion and then ask God to forgive me." Beware lest we, you or anyone falls into the same mindset that propels those who pursue abortion!

Earendel, I understand the dilemma you are in but God's grace is greater still!

ginnyrose


_________________
Sandra Miller

 2009/3/23 9:16Profile









 Re:

[url=http://wiki.biblebase.com/index.php?title=Studies_in_1st_Corinthians]Ron Baileys godly teaching on Divorce and Remarriage[/url] Well worth the listen and goes deeper than just the seen but the unseen of committing adultery in the heart as well.

What is written below is NOT Ron Baileys exact words, this is a summary of what was heard on the mp3.

Quote:
… A key point RB makes, is that it was not illegal for a man to take more than one wife (under the law of Moses), but, if he did, he was to continue to render to the first wife or wives), his contractual obligations. (Now, I realise he didn't detain us with the difference between a contract and a covenant, but my understanding is that he carries the concept of a contract into the New Testament also. THEREFORE.... and this is really important ..... under the OC, the man was NOT committing adultery, if he had more than one wife AND he kept his contractual obligations to all of them. … However, if he didn't, or didn't want to keep them towards the earlier wife/wives, he was free to divorce her, THUS SETTING HER FREE TO REMARRY. That was the whole point of divorce. … So in his talks, he doesn't detain himself for a second, with whether divorce is okay or not! … Thus, the difference JESUS made to the way their divorce law operated, was to say two basic things. The first being that a man was not free to take a second wife, because by even thinking about it, he was committing adultery in his heart. … The second was that IF his only wife had committed sexual immorality- - he used the phrase 'sexual immorality' deliberately I think, to avoid a discussion about the meaning of fornication, and to include adultery (which is distinct in that it is a reference to the marriage) - - he was free to divorce her. The implication of such a divorce would be, that the MAN was now set free to remarry. … He didn't spell that out though. Many other aspects of this, such as a woman being free to divorce an adulterous husband, were touched upon. … I think the main points which I gathered, were that if you look at the context (Old Covenant practice as it had evolved) of the different mentions of these matters, and ASSUME that the New Testament writers all had that background, only THEN can one read what is written, and understand what was being TAKEN AS READ in their thinking.

 2009/3/23 9:57









 Re:

My mother came to Christ when I was seven years old. My Father, a control freak, went crazy. There followed fifteen years of mayhem and violence. During that time she had her jaw broken and countless black eyes. The majority of Christians , including the Pastor, told her to leave him. My mother would tell you that God spoke into her heart and asked her to stay, that this was a battle for his soul. After 15 years my father was a broken man and came to Christ the same way all men come to Christ, on his knees. He was 49. Up till that point, he had beem in hospital 7 times for alcoholism, the last time he was locked up in a rubber room. The very day he came to Christ he was deliverd from drink, never drank another drop, that was 20 years ago. They re-took their marriage vows and have now been married for 49 years. One of the main reasons I came to Christ at the age of 26 was because I saw the reality of my mothers faith in the midst of grevious trials and tribulation, violence and poverty.

Most people want the blessings of God but they do not want the sacrifice that it takes to follow Him. Jesus says no divorce except for adultery, and even then forgiveness would be the preferred path, my father was also a multiple adulterer............Frank

 2009/3/23 11:07
Earendel
Member



Joined: 2009/3/17
Posts: 308
Central Alberta, Canada

 Re:

After much prayer before the Lord and consideration, this is where my conviction before the Lord lies in regards to Divorce and Remarriage. It's really very, very strict, but here it is:

Here is a brief study from: http://www.gospelway.com/family/divorce_remarriage.php

Part I: Does the Bible Say Divorce and Remarriage Is Moral or Immoral?

A. The General Teaching of the New Testament Is that Divorce is Contrary to God's Will, and that Remarriage Following Divorce Constitutes Adultery.

Note: that there is one exception to this general rule, which we will discuss later. At this point we are discussing the general rule. The following passages present this teaching:

Matthew 19:3-9 (cf. Mark 10:2-12; Luke 16:18)

Jesus was asked whether divorce can properly be obtained for just any reason a person might have. He answered by appealing to the original marriage law.

Jesus taught that divorce itself, in general, is contrary to God's will. God made one man for one woman, indicating He did not intend for either to marry anyone else. He said they should cleave to one another and the two become one - there is no room in God's plan for a third party. God joins the man and woman, no human has the right to break that bond.

Further, whoever divorces his wife and marries again commits adultery (unless he does it because she has been guilty of fornication), and whoever marries her who has been divorced also commits adultery. (Mk. 10 adds that this rule also applies to the woman if she divorces her husband.)

To help understand the passage, read it with your name and your spouse's name, instead of "whosoever," etc.

Matthew 19:9 - If ____________ (you) divorces __________ (his wife), except for fornication, and marries another, _________________ (you) commits adultery; and whoever marries ___________ (her who is divorced) commits adultery."

Matthew 5:31,32

One who puts away his wife (for some cause other than fornication) causes her to commit adultery. This assumes that she remarries as described in the last part of the verse and as implied in the previous verse (the purpose of the "bill of divorcement" according to the law was so she could become another man's wife - Deut. 24:1ff).

By divorcing his wife, the husband puts her in the position where she is strongly tempted to remarry and if she does remarry, Jesus says she is guilty of adultery and so is the man she marries (in contrast to the Mosaic Law which tolerated the remarriage). Hence, the divorce itself is wrong and should be avoided. [Cf. Matt. 18:6,7]

Romans 7:2,3

A married woman is bound by law to her husband as long as he lives. This means that if she is married to another man while her first husband is alive, she is guilty of adultery. She is free to remarry without guilt only if her husband is dead.

(Some ask what "law" is this that joins the man and woman - God's law or man's law? It is the law which, when violated, makes the woman an adulteress. Clearly this must be God's law, and this conforms to what is taught elsewhere.)

1 Corinthians 7:10,11

A married woman should not depart from her husband nor he from her. Again, divorce itself is not the will of God.

But if she departs (if divorce has occurred), she must remain unmarried or else be reconciled to her husband. Clearly remarriage is not a scriptural alternative.

(Note: "depart" here is the same word elsewhere translated "put asunder" - Matt. 19:6; Mk. 10:9: The result of the action is that the woman is "unmarried.")

The teaching of the gospel on this point is unpopular with most people. Many people don't want to hear it preached. Jesus' own disciples considered it very strict (Matt. 19:10-12), still Jesus did not compromise it or apologize for it. He continued to teach and defend it and so must we.

B. To Apply These Passages Properly, We Must Understand Why the Second Marriage Is Forbidden and Why It Is Called "Adultery."

God clearly has the right to forbid any act if He so chooses, but it helps us apply the teaching when we understand His reasons for forbidding an act. What reason does God give for declaring the second marriage sinful, and why does He call it "adultery"?

Malachi 2:14-16

God hates putting away (v16). Again, divorce is contrary to God's will. Why? Because marriage is a covenant between a man and his wife (v14). God is a witness to that covenant, and He holds men to it (v14). If a man violates the covenant, he is dealing treacherously with his wife and God will hold him accountable. [Prov. 2:17; Ezek. 16:8]

Though this is an Old Testament passage, it helps us learn the definition of marriage, which has not changed. Marriage is, by God's definition, a solemn mutual agreement between a man and woman to live together as husband and wife. God holds them to that covenant bond and will not free them from it, even if people declare them to be free.

Remember this! The whole foundation of New Testament teaching regarding divorce rests on God's attitude toward marriage. When people weaken the barriers against divorce, they are weakening respect for marriage. Divorce matters because it destroys a marriage, and marriage is very important to God. Any view of divorce, which fails to respect marriage as God respects it, must be an unscriptural view.

This is why Jesus, in answering a question about divorce and remarriage, appealed to God's original intent regarding marriage (Matt. 19:3-9). God will respect and enforce His law regarding it, even when men disregard it!

Hebrews 13:4

The marriage covenant includes the right and obligation to have the sexual union only with the companion with whom we have a Scriptural marriage covenant. To have relations with anyone else is "fornication" or "adultery."

This too is part of the marriage covenant as God defines it. Marriage gives a man and his wife the right to the sexual union, but only with their lawful spouse.

[Ezek. 23; Jer. 3; Prov. 5:15-20; 6:29,32; 7:18-20; Ezek. 16:32; 1 Cor. 7:1-9].

Romans 7:2,3

In this marriage covenant, the woman is bound to her husband as long as he lives (cf. 1 Cor. 7:39). The marriage "bond" is a lifetime covenant commitment, and God holds people to the commitment they made, even if later they try to break it.

Note that the passage says a woman may be "bound" to one man, but "married" to another man! The "bond" refers to the marriage covenant that God holds you to. "Marriage" refers to the relationship you are living in as recognized by civil law and society. The two may be the same, but not necessarily. In this case, the woman was "bound" to one man but "married" to a completely different man!

That is why a woman is guilty of adultery if she is married to another man. Adultery, by definition, refers to sexual intercourse between two people, one of whom is bound by a marriage covenant to somebody else [see definitions in notes on Matt. 19:9].

This woman is an "adulteress" because she has been joined in a marriage covenant with one man, and God holds her to that covenant for life. But she is having sexual relations with another man, and that, by definition, is adultery. This passage defines adultery for us!

Note that anytime she has sexual relations with a man other than her scriptural mate it is adultery - as long as her first companion is living, the passage says. Whether she has just a single act of intercourse, or has an "affair" involving a number of adulterous acts over a period of time, or whether it is a second marriage to another man - in any case every time she has sexual union with another man the passage says she is guilty of adultery.

This is "adultery" because the woman is Scripturally committed to have the sexual union only with one man as long as he lives, but instead she is having it with another man. This is why it is proper to refer to the second marriage as "adulterous" or "living in adultery," just as it would be if she were living with him but not married to him (Col. 3:5-7).

Matthew 19:3-9

What reason is given why remarriage is forbidden and why it is called "adultery"? Because God declared man and woman should cleave to one another. He joins them (by witnessing their marriage covenant and holding them to it). He forbids their changing their mind and says no man can put their marriage asunder.

So, if man puts away his wife and marries another, the second marriage is "adultery" because he is having the sexual union with a second wife while God still holds him obligated to his covenant to have the sexual union only with his first wife.

Note again: the terms "marry" and "divorce" (or "put away," and also "husband" and "wife") as used here and elsewhere, refer to the relationship as viewed by society and the law of the land. In a first marriage, both God and society recognize the marriage commitment to exist between the man and woman. They are both "married" in the eyes of society and "joined" ("bound") in the eyes of God.

Society and civil law may then grant them a "divorce" (not for fornication) and they may "marry" again. Society and civil law then views them as free from their first marriage and entered into a second one, and the Bible calls this "divorced" ("put away") and "married" again. But though God uses these terms as society does, He does not recognize the divorce as making a valid end to the covenant commitment that He recognized in the first marriage. God still considers them "bound" or "joined" or held accountable for the commitment of the first marriage (v6).

There is a definite distinction between the covenant commitment (bond) which God recognizes and the divorce and marriage which civil law recognizes. (cf. Mk. 6:17,18)

Again, the second marriage is "adultery" because the person is still joined in God's eyes to his/her first spouse, but they are having a sexual relationship with a second spouse. That is adultery, and it will continue to be adultery every time they have the sexual relationship, because God has still "joined" them to their first spouse and He will not "put asunder" that bond.

1 Corinthians 7:10,11

This explains why, if a woman divorces her husband, she still has no right to remarry. She may get divorced in the eyes of civil law, and God calls it "divorce" and says she is now "unmarried." But that does not free her from her bond or covenant obligation to her first husband. Since she is still bound to her first marriage covenant, her only choice then is to be reconciled to her husband (the one God recognizes) or else remain unmarried.

Sexual relationship outside of a Scriptural marriage bond constitutes fornication (v2-5). Hence, if the woman divorces and remarries, that second marriage, as long as it lasted and as long as her first husband was still alive, would constitute adultery.

Understanding these principles will be vital to reaching proper applications and answers to other questions we will deal with.

[Note that adultery involves a sexual act - John 8:4; Heb. 13:4; Prov. 6:20-35. It is not just the act of divorcing and remarrying that is adultery.]

C. God Allows an Exception to the General Rule When One's Spouse Has Been Guilty of Fornication.

This exception is clearly stated in Matthew 19:9 (and 5:32).

"Whosoever shall put away his wife, except for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery" ("saving for the cause of fornication" - Matt. 5:32).

The question originally asked Jesus concerned the grounds or cause for which a man may divorce his wife (v3). In v9 Jesus clearly says there is no acceptable cause except if ones companion has been guilty of fornication.

Unlike the Mosaic Law, which Jesus admits tolerated divorce and remarriage for other causes, Jesus' teaching allows one and only one cause.

Note that the only one who is granted the right to divorce and remarry without being guilty of sin is the one who has been sinned against by his/her companion who committed fornication.

What is fornication?

Definitions: "illicit sexual intercourse in general" (Thayer); "every kind of unlawful sexual intercourse" (Arndt and Gingrich). Fornication includes any form of sexual intercourse with anyone other than ones scriptural spouse, regardless of whether that person be of the opposite sex or of the same sex. Note passages that explain the meaning:

1 Corinthians 7:2-5 - To avoid fornication, one is to satisfy the sexual desire with and only with "his own wife" or "her own husband." Our own marriage companion is the only one who has power over our body. If we satisfy this desire with anyone else, the passage says it would be fornication, whether it be with someone we are not married to, someone else's husband or wife, or someone else of the same sex (i.e., homosexuality). (See also Heb. 13:4).

Jude 7 - Sodom and Gomorrah gave themselves over to fornication. But Gen. 19 shows this refers to homosexuality (men wanted to lie with men, not with women) ["and going after strange flesh" has the significance of even going after...]. Therefore, homosexuality is a form of fornication, and would be scriptural grounds for one's companion to obtain a divorce and remarry.

Some say fornication would not include adultery (i.e., the case in which one who is married has relations with someone not their spouse). But the following passages use "fornication" to include extra-marital sex: 1 Cor. 5:1; Amos 7:17; Ezek. 16:8,15,26,29; Jer. 3:6,8. Jesus used "fornication" in order to include, not just extra-marital sex, but also premarital sex and homosexuality - any form of illicit sexual intercourse.

When a man and woman marry, they make a covenant to have the sexual relationship only with one another and with no one else (of the same or opposite sex) as long as they both shall live. If one companion violates that covenant by having sexual relations with any person other than their own spouse, he/she has violated the marriage covenant in such a way that God grants their partner the right to divorce them and remarry.

The New Testament teaching regarding divorce and remarriage can be summarized like this: When a man and woman marry, they enter into a lifetime covenant in which God binds or joins them, holding them accountable to keep this covenant. If there is a divorce for some cause other than fornication, God's will is violated; and if either or both remarry, the second marriage relationship(s) is (are) adultery because God still holds the people bound to the first marriage commitment. If during the first marriage, however, one companion commits fornication, then the other companion may choose to obtain a divorce and remarry ey both shall live. If one companion violates that covenant by having sexual relations with any person other than their own spouse, he/she has violated the marriage covenant in such a way that God grants their partner the right to divorce them and remarry.

The New Testament teaching regarding divorce and remarriage can be summarized like this: When a man and woman marry, they enter into a lifetime covenant in which God binds or joins them, holding them accountable to keep this covenant. If there is a divorce for some cause other than fornication, God's will is violated; and if either or both remarry, the second marriage relationship(s) is (are) adultery because God still holds the people bound to the first marriage commitment. If during the first marriage, however, one companion commits fornication, then the other companion may choose to obtain a divorce and remarry without sin.

This is my last post to this thread.

This is a strict warning.

Men will be judged according to whether or not we have conformed our lives to His will (John 12:48). Man's will often differs from God's (Prov. 14:12; Isa. 55:8,9; 2 Cor. 10:12,18; Lk. 16:15,18). Since the Bible reveals God's will, we must learn what it says about divorce and remarriage (2 Tim. 3:16,17; 1 Cor. 14:37; Eph. 3:3-5; 2 Pet. 1:21).



_________________
David

 2009/3/23 15:02Profile
savannah
Member



Joined: 2008/10/30
Posts: 2009


 Re: Does God Hate Divorce

Does God hate Divorce?

Malachi 2:16 For the LORD, the God of Israel, saith that he hateth putting away (Strong's # 7971): for one covereth violence with his garment, saith the LORD of hosts: therefore take heed to your spirit, that ye deal not treacherously.

This verse does not say "God hates divorce" as many incorrectly tell us. In Hebrew, the word is shalach (Strong's # 7971) which means to send, send away, let go, stretch out. The word which means divorce, dismissal, divorcement, (Strong's # 3748) ker-ee-thooth is not used here.

Nowhere in the Scriptures are these two terms used interchangeably. The Hebrew word for “divorce” (Strong's # 3748) in Deuteronomy 24:1 is found in only two other verses: Isaiah 50:1, and Jeremiah 3:8.

Deuteronomy 24:1, Isaiah 50:1 and Jeremiah 3:8 are the only three verses where the Hebrew word for “divorce” can be found in the Old Testament.
In Malachi 2:16 this word is not used.

The Hebrew word ker-ee-thooth translated “divorce” is a very specific term, and is always used in conjunction with the term “bill,” “writ,” or “certificate.” The Hebrew word translated “sent out” or “put away” is a very common term and is used nearly a thousand times in the Old Testament.

There is no interchangeability between these two Hebrew words. One could not be divorced without being put away. Yet, one could be put away without being divorced. It is this latter condition that was addressed by the Prophet Malachi.

The Holy Spirit-inspired Hebrew word used here in Malachi 2:16 is correctly translated as 'putting away'. The treachery committed by these men was not in divorcing their wives, but rather in that they were putting their wives away without a certificate of divorce. In their vindictiveness, they were putting their wives in a horrible no win predicament. If the wives had “remarried” or had attached themselves to another man, they would have been subject to stoning for adultery since without a certificate of divorce they were still lawfully married to their first husband. If they would not commit adultery then these women were left to fend for themselves which was nearly impossible under the conditions of that time.

God hates this treacherous act of 'putting away'. The hardness of these men’s hearts resulted in their sinful course of action toward their wives.

Divorce was God's merciful provision for wives who were being treacherously dealt with. It was also a judgement against men and their hardness of heart as they had become covenant breakers of the marriage covenant.

The Law of God regarding divorce is still His merciful provision for some, as well as a judgement against those covenant breakers who persist in impenitence and hardness of heart.

There are many who erroneously conclude and believe that Jesus changed the law on divorce under the New Covenant. "But we know that the law is good, if a man uses it lawfully." (1 Tim. 1:8) But there are many, "wishing to be teachers of law, neither understanding what they say, nor about that which they confidently affirm" (1 Tim. 1:7). "So indeed the Law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good" (Rom. 7:12).

To those who'd pit the spirit of the Law against the Word written, the same verses above apply to you. We do not serve a divided Trinity. These three(The Father,The Word,The Spirit) agree and are in one mind. It is the Spirit which gives understanding and the ability to correctly interpret the Law of God which is the Word of God Who became flesh and tabernacled among us.

He said,in full agreement with His Father,

Matthew 5:31 It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away (Strong's # 630) his wife , let him give her a writing of divorcement (Strong's # 647) Matthew 5:32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away (Strong's # 630) his wife , saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery : and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced (Strong's # 630) committeth adultery.

Strong's number 630 (apoluo) does not mean divorce, but separate. Strong's number 647 (apostasion) means divorce.

This verse should read:

Matthew 5:32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife , saving for the cause of fornication , causeth her to commit adultery : and whosoever shall marry her that is put away committeth adultery.

If a lawful divorce had been secured this woman nor the man who married her would be guilty of adultery.

Even so,such would not excuse nor justify the sin of covenant breaking which led up to and resulted in the lawful divorce.

As for those who'd make their argument from their experience and/or the experience of others, "To the Law, and to the testimony, if they speak not according to this word: it is because there is no light in them"(Isa. 8:20).

I refuse to enter into controversy or argument based upon one's experience, as one's experience is not an argument.

This question looms upon the heads of those who equate all divorce and remarriage as being sinful,

According to the Scriptures and the whole counsel of God from Genesis to Revelation, what is a lawful divorce and what does it do?

If the ones persisting in the erroneous teaching of no divorce or remarriage under any circumstances say that those who are remarried are not condemned, they are being inconsistent and dishonest. If they believe this teaching they ought to believe its ramifications as some others who do, and go the full extent of their false teaching.

But I would say to them and their inconsistent disciples,

Believe what you will but don't call it God's Truth.

 2009/3/26 1:34Profile









 Re:

Savannah writes....

"He said,in full agreement with His Father,
Matthew 5:31 It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away (Strong's # 630) his wife , let him give her a writing of divorcement (Strong's # 647) Matthew 5:32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away (Strong's # 630) his wife , saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery : and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced (Strong's # 630) committeth adultery.

Strong's number 630 (apoluo) does not mean divorce, but separate. Strong's number 647 (apostasion) means divorce. "


Savannah, here is the word for "shall put away," in Mat 5:32 according to Strongs.......

G630
ἀπολύω
apoluō
ap-ol-oo'-o
From G575 and G3089; to free fully, that is, (literally) relieve, release, dismiss (reflexively depart), or (figuratively) let die, pardon, or (specifically) divorce: - (let) depart, dismiss, divorce, forgive, let go, loose, put (send) away, release, set at liberty.

Here is the word "divorce," in Mat 5:32 according to Strongs....
G630
ἀπολύω
apoluō
ap-ol-oo'-o
From G575 and G3089; to free fully, that is, (literally) relieve, release, dismiss (reflexively depart), or (figuratively) let die, pardon, or (specifically) divorce: - (let) depart, dismiss, divorce, forgive, let go, loose, put (send) away, release, set at liberty.


Its the same word, same meaning, interchangeable. This is Jesus' teaching , bringing clarity to a situation that was not clear in the OT. It was a raging controversy of the day, just like taxes, nothing much has changed in 2000 years, but Jesus is clear. Here are the two other times that the word divorce is used in the NT.

Mat 19:7 They said to Him, Why did Moses then command to give a bill of divorce and to put her away?

Mar 10:4 And they said, Moses allowed a bill of divorce to be written, and to put her away.

And here is where this is from....

Deu 24:1 When a man has taken a wife and married her, and it happens that she finds no favor in his eyes, because he has found some uncleanness in her, then let him write her a bill of divorce and put it in her hand, and send her out of his house.

Deu 24:3 and the latter husband hates her and writes her a bill of divorce and puts it in her hand and sends her out of his house; or if the latter husband dies, he who took her to be his wife

The divorce comes first and then the woman is put out of the house. So, its not the putting away, its the divorce itself that Jesus is addressing, and He does it with clarity. Only in a culture of divorce is this a controversy. Only in this kind of culture do people look for technicality in order to try and circumvent the clear teaching of the Lord. I had a friend who wrote to Hank Hannagraph, the "Bible Answerman," and asked for clarity on the word "fornication." He wrote her back with a broad definition of the word and explained to her that this is where we get our word "Pornography," from. She promptly divorced her husband because she had caught him viewing pornography, she had been married for eight weeks.

G4202
πορνεία
porneia
por-ni'-ah
From G4203; harlotry (including adultery and incest); figuratively idolatry: - fornication.

Savannah, can I ask you, are you divorced? I would just ask everyone to remember, that the issue was not clear to the Hebrews, for various reasons, Jesus brought clarity to it. Again, on taxes, Jesus brought clarity. And on the issue of life after death,it was not clear to the Hebrews and again, Jesus brought clarity. So, lets appeal to what Jesus says about His own Word, its the final saying on the teaching from the teacher Himself............Frank

 2009/3/26 9:31









 Re:

Wow Savannah well done, well written. Thank you for that exposition.

 2009/3/26 9:51









 Re: Divorce and Re-marriage p12

DeepThinker wrote:

Quote:
Wow Savannah well done, well written. Thank you for that exposition.

I thought so too, having [i]not[/i] understood the Hebrew and Greek background to the talks by philologos, which are very good, (recommended on p6 of this thread).

Quote:
This verse does not say "God hates divorce" as many incorrectly tell us. In Hebrew, the word is shalach (Strong's # 7971) which means to send, send away, let go, stretch out. The word which means divorce, dismissal, divorcement, (Strong's # 3748) ker-ee-thooth is not used here.

Nowhere in the Scriptures are these two terms used interchangeably. The Hebrew word for “divorce” (Strong's # 3748) in Deuteronomy 24:1 is found in only two other verses: Isaiah 50:1, and Jeremiah 3:8.

Deuteronomy 24:1, Isaiah 50:1 and Jeremiah 3:8 are the only three verses where the Hebrew word for “divorce” can be found in the Old Testament.
In Malachi 2:16 this word is not used.

The Hebrew word ker-ee-thooth translated “divorce” is a very specific term, and is always used in conjunction with the term “bill,” “writ,” or “certificate.” The Hebrew word translated “sent out” or “put away” is a very common term and is used nearly a thousand times in the Old Testament.

This seems to mean that when Jesus spoke in Matt 5:32 as quoted by brother Frank, two different [i]English[/i] words were used by the translators for the same [u]one[/u] Greek word 'apoluo'.

Thus, (expanding the verse with the additional meanings in brackets), it could read: (KJV)

[i]But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away (separate from) his wife saving for the cause of fornication, (in which case he may give her a 'writing of divorcement'), causes her to commit adultery (when she is taken by another man), and whosoever shall marry (take) her that is (only) put away (separated from her husband) commits adultery (because until or unless he has given her a 'writing of divorcement' she is not [u]legally free[/u] to become another man's wife.[/i])


I hope that offers a healthy balance of consideration, without adding clauses which were not under discussion between Jesus and the men at the time.


Brother Frank, your mother was a brave woman. Thank you for sharing that testimony.

 2009/3/27 21:46





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