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AbideinHim
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Joined: 2006/11/26
Posts: 5185
Louisiana

 Re:

It seems as if much of the Church today cries heresy when sinless perfection is taught, and I do not believe that the Word of God teaches this doctrine, but to teach that a Christian cannot overcome sin and has to sin every day is also not taught in the Word of God.

Our goal as Christians should be Christlikeness. Does not the Word say to be perfect, even as He is perfect, to be holy even as He is holy.

God sees all that are in Christ as holy, unblameable, and without reproach. (Colossians 1:22). The Holy Spirit has been sent to make the believer's standing a actual reality in his life.

When a man is born again, he becomes a new creation, and through the Holy Spirit, Christ is living within him. At the new birth, the believers spirit is sanctified and made holy by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

The soul (mind, will, and emotions) is in the process of being sanctified. We are being transformed by the renewing of our minds. This is a process. "Receiving the end [goal] of your faith — the salvation of your souls." (1 Peter 1:9) The salvation of the soul is a process, and does not occur by any one experience. When one is baptized in the Spirit, the warfare will increase. If we walk in the Spirit, we will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh.

The body of the believer will be changed at the coming of the Lord. This speaks of something that will happen in the future when we receive our glorified bodies. We are to present our bodies to God as living sacrifices. Jesus has done everything that He is going to do to sanctify us and make us holy but we must recieve Him as our sanctification, and make a complete surrender to Him.

Mike


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Mike

 2009/2/16 12:53Profile
Nellie
Member



Joined: 2004/4/5
Posts: 952


 Re:

Colon,
I do not personally know Tom Plumb, but have been e-mailing him off and on since 2006.
God Bless
Nellie

 2009/2/16 13:01Profile
murrcolr
Member



Joined: 2007/4/25
Posts: 1839
Scotland, UK

 Re:

Act 15v7-9 After there had been much debate, Peter stood up and said to them, "Brethren, you know that in the early days God made a choice among you, that by my mouth the Gentiles would hear the word of the gospel and believe. "And God, who knows the heart, testified to them giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He also did to us; and He made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith.

The scripture above is from Acts 15 where the church met to discuss the work in the gentiles.
It says in Acts 15v7 Peter stood up after much debate to. He (Peter) points out that the Gentiles experience was every bit as Divine as that of the original Pentecost band and he draws out a point to prove that the Gentiles are no different from the Jews.

Acts 15v8-9 "And God, who knows the heart, testified to them giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He also did to us and He made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith.

What was it for Peter, the God-given “sign” that proved to the great preacher of Pentecost that the Gentiles had “got it” their hearts were purified by faith. They had been sanctified! Yes, they were saved glory to Jesus! In the power of the Spirit they miraculously spoke in tongues how wonderful! But all those years after the Day of Pentecost, to bolster his argument and make his case as strong as he could in the council, Peter’s testimony was that God gave those Gentiles the Spirit's witness of purified hearts.

Here is an Excerpt from Pentecost By Leonard Ravenhill

In Europe Pentecost Sunday is always called Whitsunday (White Sunday), and the children usually dress in white. The disciples were "made white" at the first Pentecost - that is, their hearts were "purified by faith" (Acts 15:8, 9). This purification is a lost accent these days in interpreting the Baptism with Spirit. Under the title of Spirit-filled churches, there are some weird and wanton things operating at present.
If too much stress has not been made of the gifts of the Spirit, then too little has been said of the fruit of the Spirit. Note how few books are available on the fruits of the Spirit, but how many on the gifts of the Spirit. Yet the Son of God said, "By their fruits ye shall know them."

The first essential for the coming of the Holy Ghost into a heart today is that the heart should be cleansed from sin, for the Holy Spirit does not fill an unclean heart. What God has cleansed, He then fills. Finally, whom God fills, He uses. A holy life is the authentic sign of being filled with the Spirit.

Look at this statement “A holy life is the authentic sign of being filled with the Spirit”

This goes along with what Peter was saying in Acts 15 v 8-9 the distinction if you have the Holy Spirit is that you should live a Holy life because your heart has been cleansed.

So where have we gone astray? Are our hearts pure are our hands clean. The church today needs the this sanctifying work done in the heart of believers.

The vast majority of the church today is living in John20v22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost and not in Acts 2


_________________
Colin Murray

 2009/2/16 14:25Profile









 Re:

Murrcolr. I don't think many are disputing this. I am not disputing these events of Scripture or what they mean. My point is that, as true as this is, to claim 'sinless perfection' as a permanent state of holiness that CANNOT OR WILL NOT SIN goes against what John wrote in
1John 1: 7-10 7

"But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all[b] sin.
8If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. 10If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word has no place in our lives."

How do people who receive 'entire sanctification' reconcile this passage of John to themselves? Many times these questions are raised and instead of addressing the scripture at hand, they just give scripture that supports their claim. I'm afraid I see some of that here at times. The Bible is all encompassing and Holy Spirit inspired and therefore this passage must fit somewhere in the debate of entire sanctification. Some argue (holiness preachers) that this sanctification is not a state of sinlessness, but a realization of our rest in Christ throught the power of the Holy Spirit. Some say it is sinless perfection or the 'mortification of sin' in us which, I believe, presumes the non-existence of sin in the person. Clearly John states otherwise. So the question is how do these scriptures live in harmony without undermining the power of the Holy Spirit or presuming an unrealistic expectation on Christian brethren.

 2009/2/16 15:04









 Re:

sorry for the repeat post. server issues.

 2009/2/16 15:05
murrcolr
Member



Joined: 2007/4/25
Posts: 1839
Scotland, UK

 Re:

A PERFECT-HEARTED PEOPLE

God is looking for people whose hearts are perfect towards Him a perfected-hearted people; so there is a kind of perfection required of His people by God. A friend of mine asked me some time ago whether I believed in and taught perfection. I replied that that depended
upon what he meant by the term “perfection.” If he meant absolute perfection, I did not; nor did I believe in the possession by men of angelic perfection; nor yet in their realizing such perfection as Adam must have originally possessed. God alone is absolutely perfect in all His attributes, and to such perfection we can never hope to attain. Then there is a perfection possessed by the angels, which we shall never have in this world. Adam also had certain perfections of body and mind which are out of our reach. There is, however, a perfection which we are given to understand God requires in us. It is a perfection not of head
but of heart; not of knowledge, but of goodness, of humility of love, of faith. Such a perfection God desires us to have, and such a perfection we may have. In saying this I cannot be accused of being a crank or a fanatic, for I am proclaiming only the plain, simple truth as it is revealed in God’s word, and we ought to desire to rise up to all the privileges God has conferred upon us.

“Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in Heaven is perfect,” said Jesus (Matt. v.48).

What sort of perfection is this which we are to possess? God is a Spirit; we are simply men and women. And further, “No man hath seen God at any time” (John i. 18). How then are we to know what that perfection is which He requires of us – a perfection which it is possible for men and women to manifest? In this, Jesus is our pattern. It is true that no man hath seen God at any time,” but the only begotten Son ..... He hath declared Him” (John i. 18) – that is, manifested the Father’s nature and perfections in a human life which we can see and understand. This perfection of heart, of purity, of goodness, was seen in Jesus in several particulars, and in these we are to follow His example.

First: We are to be perfectly submitted to God.We are to come to the place where we no longer fight against God’s will; where we do not complain, nor talk back, nor resist, but yield in perfect submission to all His will. In the terrible General Slocum disaster in New York Harbour some years ago, almost all the mothers and children of one church lost their lives. The next Sunday the bereaved fathers and husbands came to the church, and the pastor, who had lost his whole family, rose and said, “The Lord gave, and the Lord hath taken away; blessed be the name of the Lord “(Job i. 21). These men were perfectly submissive to God in their hearts, and they did not fail God in the hour of their suffering and trial, and fight against His providences. It is possible to be submitted to God in this way. We may not understand God’s providences, but we can say “Amen” to them from our hearts.

Second: Like Jesus, we may perfectly trust God. We may possess a confidence in God that holds out in ways which we do not understand, like the confidence that a very little child has in its parents ; that will trust with all the heart. Job was rich, prosperous and happy. Then trouble came. He was afflicted, he lost his children, he lost his property, and his herds were carried off by marauders. And what did Job do? He did not complain and blame God, but said, “The Lord gave, and the Lord hath taken away; blessed be the name of the Lord.” And when his backslidden wife advised him to curse God and die, Job defended God’s way and said, “Thou speakest as one of the foolish women speaketh. What? Shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil?” And “in all this did not Job sin with his lips” (Job ii. 10). Then his friends tried to shake his confidence, and Job – afflicted, full of pain, poor, and bereaved of his children – seemed to be forsaken by God; but he looked up from his ash heap and exclaimed, “Though He slay me, yet will I trust in Him” (Job xiii. 15).

It is always so with the perfect-hearted man. I want my friends to trust me, and if they failed to do so when I was out of their sight it would break my heart. So God wants us to trust Him where we cannot see Him. Paul and Silas, on one of their missionary journeys, were arrested and placed in one of those loathsome Roman prisons – in the inmost, wet, slimy, foul dungeon – with the wounds on their backs from the scourging they had just received gaping wide, and with their feet in the stocks. But they did not worry and complain and determine to go home when they were released. They sang and praised the Lord. That is the kind of spirit God wants His people to possess ; a spirit that will rejoice with a perfect trust in Him under adversity.

Third: God desires His people to be perfect in love; to love Him perfectly. We are not expected to love God with the heart of an archangel, for we are only poor humble men with limited power to love, but God does expect us to love with all our hearts – with all our power to love. The little child is to love with all its power; and as the powers develop and grow, our love is to develop and grow apace with our power to love; but we are always to love with all the heart.

Fourth: There must be perfect loyalty. Love is not an emotion – a happy feeling; it is not something on the surface; it is a deep principle, revealing itself in perfect loyalty to God.

What constitutes a perfect son or a perfect wife? Here is a big, ignorant young man. He could not shine in a drawing room. He is hard-working, rough, uncultured, and awkward, and in the eyes of the world is a most imperfect man. But he has a dear old mother whom he loves. He works to give her his meagre wages at the end of the week; he carries up the coal; and when his day’s work is done he comes home to cheer his old mother with his presence. He does all he can to make her latter days comfortable and happy. Now he is a very imperfect man, but his mother would tell you with pride, “He is my perfect son.” What makes him a perfect son? Perfect loyalty to his old mother. So a man has a perfect heart when it beats in perfect loyalty to God – wholly yielded up to fulfil all His purposes. He may be very imperfect as a man, and his imperfections may be apparent to every one; he may blunder and make many mistakes; he may be ignorant and uncultured – yet God looks down and counts him a perfect-hearted man. When God sees a heart perfect in loyalty to Him, He overlooks many mistakes and blunders of the head.

Fifth: God also requires of us perfect obedience. Our performance may not always be perfect, but our spirit may be perfect. My little boy, with his heart beating high to help his papa and do what I want him to do, goes into the garden to pull the weeds from among the vegetables; but he comes to the corn, and he doesn’t know the difference between corn and weeds, and while pulling up the weeds he also pulls up my corn. When I come home he runs to me, with eyes dancing, bursting to tell me how he has helped me by weeding the garden. I go out and find that, while he has weeded the garden, he has also pulled up my sweet corn. But I see that he has done it with a heart full of desire to please his father, and that the trouble has not been with his heart, but with his ignorant little head; and, seeing his perfect little heart, I press him to my breast and call him my little man.

This is the kind of perfection God wants in us – perfect obedience of the heart. God’s eyes are in all parts of the earth, seeking for men with hearts perfect toward Him, in submission, in trust, in love, in obedience; and when He finds such a man He reveals Himself to Him and shows Himself on behalf of that man.

Now let me ask you, what kind of heart have you?
Have you submitted to Him?
Have you consecrated yourself wholly to Him?
Have you put all your powers at His disposal?
Have you let Him have all His way with you?

How anger and pride and selfishness and uncleanness must grieve Him! The perfect-hearted man has put all these things away. How can I put away these things that seem to be a part of my very being? How can I change the colour of my eyes or add a cubit to my stature? I cannot! Work as I will, I shall always fail to change my moral nature. But God can. It is His work. If we go down before Him in complete humility and say, “Lord, I am willing to have my heart changed. Though it may mean that I shall be despised and hated and persecuted, I will take up my cross; I will crucify myself. I am willing that my selfishness and pride and hate and uncleanness shall be taken from me, and that Thou shalt reign in me and create in me a clean heart, perfect in its love, submission, loyalty, trust, and obedience” -- if we will say that to Him, He will answer our prayer to-day, now, this moment, if we will but believe.

By Samuel Logan Brengle


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Colin Murray

 2009/2/16 15:20Profile
murrcolr
Member



Joined: 2007/4/25
Posts: 1839
Scotland, UK

 Re:

A seventh citation is I John 1. 8: "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us."

Here is another formidable-looking verse, that at first glance seems to call for a surrender on the part of the holiness people; but with a little fixed attention, and by reading the context, the whole passage becomes clear.

In the first place, let the reader remember that John is writing to Christians, and that he has said to them in this same Epistle that "whosoever is born of God, sinneth not," and that he urges this upon them again in the words: "These things write I unto you, that ye sin not."

The question we urge now is: How can Christians find excuse for sin in the face of such statements? How can the reader reconcile these verses with a life of sin? Evidently the passage advanced by the objectors must refer to something else, or we have established the startling fact that the word of God contradicts itself. Here we read that we must not sin, and yet if we say that we have no sin we deceive ourselves. What is the explanation? There is one, and one that should commend itself to any unprejudiced mind.

The Bible throughout recognizes two kinds of sin, a fact that the Churches have embodied in their creeds and articles of religion, calling one personal or actual sin, and the other inbred, inherited, or original sin. One is an act; the other is a nature. One is a transaction; the other, a bias or principle.
Being so diverse, they are described differently and are treated differently. The dissimilarity is made evident by distinguishing terms of quite a variety. One way of discrimination appears in this chapter in the words "sin" and "sins." Nor is it the only place by any means where this peculiar discrimination is observed. David in the fifty-first Psalm, and Paul in his Epistles, both recognize this difference in sin, and use language accordingly.

"Sin" stands for the inherited principle or nature, while "sins" refer to our personal transgressions. Both of these words appear in the first chapter of John's Epistle. "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins." Again: "If we walk in the light, as he is in the light, ... the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin."
That two different kinds of sin, and two different works, are referred to here appears in the use of the singular and plural numbers by way of contrast. And also that in one case the man is in an unforgiven state and comes confessing his sins; in the other, the person is walking in the light as God is in the light. In the one, the man is pardoned; in the other case the man is cleansed, and cleansed while walking in the light. One obtaining deliverance from "sins;" the other, from "sin."

According to these facts, a regenerated man, or one born of God, has been forgiven of his "sins" (plural number), but sin (singular number) in the form of inbred sin is still left. If such a man should say that he is without "sin" ( and many are saying it today who deny sin left in the regenerated heart), he deceiveth himself. The thing to do is, after we have confessed our "sins" and been forgiven, to walk in the light as He is in the light, having fellowship one with another, and right there in the light of a blessed regenerated life we shall suddenly be cleansed from all "sin."

Thus being forgiven of "sins" and cleansed from "sin," who wonders that John writes: "These things write I unto you, that ye sin not?"


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Colin Murray

 2009/2/16 15:58Profile
clintstone
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Joined: 2008/4/20
Posts: 201
tulsa,ok.

 Re:

abideinhim , i love your spirit ,it is truely wonderful what the lord has done, being perfect as He is perfect and Holy as He is holy is both a command and a promise from God , the Father of all spirits. God does not ask or command something of us that we cannot do. death is never part of the work of sactification of the flesh either . Charles finneys theology is excellent on teaching the truth about sanctification. I am so very glad that Jesus has rent the veil of His flesh that I and anyone else who believes in Him , may enter in ,into this new and Living way, the way of Agape , The way into the Holiest of Holies and abide in God , Love , Agape. Fenelon said that for a believer to beat himself up when he does sin is as bad as the sin itself . sanctification can be for the time being and intermitant , and it is also represented as being forever established . 1 john 1:7-10 speaks of repenting as a Christian I do not see anywhere in scripture where sin is anything that is involuntary or constitutional . yet we have many scholars of the bible that believe that sinis constitutional, or ,in other words, involuntary ,and physical . the outcome of sin is involuntary and constitutional , yet it only seems to be that the outcome of it is death and that needs only to by Physical and not Spiritual also . Thank God we do not have to die the second death. putting on Christ, is putting on the robe of righteuosness, is putting on wisdom, is putting on sanctification and putting on redemption. our Spirits , our souls and our Bodies can be and will be preserved blameless in this life. this happens through worshipping in Spirit and truth, praying in the Holy Ghost, fasting , and meditation of the living word. thanks for your input too this thred. may everyone realize that with every command of us that God gives, He has promised and given us everything that Pertains to Life and Godliness . LIFE and GODLINESS ? are these not Perfect Gifts Given to US ? LIFE and GODLINESS ,, would a good and perfect God and Father withhold these from any dear child of His for any lenght of time and say you have to wait on them till i am ready to give them ? Or would the loving Father say i will teach you all you need to know, and provde all the support and guidance to walk with me as far as your heart is content in doing so . Sanctification is a command and a promise and a supply from our Heavenly father in this life and Faithful is He who will do it in you , if you let Him. thanks again abideinhim , i was'nt exhorting you in this, God knows where you are . God bless you and keep you tied up in Him, Spirit, soul, and body. amen


_________________
Clint Demoret

 2009/2/17 22:49Profile









 Re:

"1 john 1:7-10 speaks of repenting as a Christian I do not see anywhere in scripture where sin is anything that is involuntary or constitutional."

I believe that sin is voluntary in the sense that we act on our temptation to sin. But it is part of our fallen nature to be susceptible to this sin. God is perfect, He cannot sin, we are fallen.... there is no decision on our part to restore our fallen nature... it's not possible and it undermines our need for Christ in the first place. Our fallen nature required an act of Christ and the gift of the Holy Spirit. If we say we have no sin we deny our need for Christ in the first place by saying that we are in a state of righteousness that does not require anything outside of ourselves. His sacrifice was necessary to eliminate the penalty but not the act. Otherwise Paul's Epistles would be moot concerning sin and its description. I understand what is said by many here concerning this but there is little qualification for those who might take a legalistic view upon it unnecessarily.

The debate concerning 1John 7-10 was more related to what people call 'sinless perfection' which I believe entails a 'STATE of sinlessness' and not a process of regeneration in obedience through the Holy Spirit. Some people (not all) cite the scripture that says 'BE PERFECT' but fail to qualify what that means. The word 'be' in this phrase denotes 'AN ACTION OF' in the Holy Spirit as "TO be", which in my opinion, does not denote a state of righteousness that is incapable of sin but a continuous yielding to the Holy Spirit who regenerates us. If I tell my daughter to 'be good' for her grandparents I am not saying 'you are in a state that can never be bad', I am telling her to be cautious and self examining in her actions in obedience to them because I know that, being a child of a fallen nature, she is capable of disobedience. I think its important to qualify these things as they are taken to extremes and it puts people in an unrealistic category of self willed righteousness, instead of a state of surrendering and yielding to the Holy Spirit in a process of regeneration in RELATIONSHIP, taken originally and continually BY FAITH.

I believe that relationship is the key to righteousness... When I see great men of God in the Bible, I see men who struggled with sin (ie..David and Peter) but were restored because their hearts continued hot after God. Their righteousness was wrapped up in relationship, not legalistic "chalkboard do's and don'ts". Again, I think many understand this but some do not and fall into discouragement and shame. This doesn't slight obedience in any way, for I believe men like David and Peter wanted desperately to obey rather than disobey. And Hudson Taylors own testimony documents a man hot after God in an unrealistic scenario of legalistic surrender that is self willed and not received in faith and rest. Any regenerate heart of Christ wants this... they want to be perfected in righteousness and purity. Christ died to remove the stain of sin in order to bring us to relationship.... and it is in this relationship that we know God's commands as well as His mercy. And this relationship is not a state of being but acts of love to one another. Many have said they are in a state of marriage, but are they in relationship? The divorce rate would say 'no'. So we must qualify the difference between 'a state of being' as a permanent attribute and 'being in a state' of relationship throught the Holy Spirit as a process of mutual love between ourselves and God.

 2009/2/18 9:19
passerby
Member



Joined: 2008/8/13
Posts: 742


 Re:

Here is another view of l John 1:5-10 by AM Hills, taken from chapter 3 of his book, "The Uttermost Salvation".

CLEANSING FROM ALL SIN

"God is light, and in Him is no darkness at all."

"If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth."

"But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanseth us from all sin."

"If we say we have no sin we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us."

"If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."

"If we say we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His Word is not in us." -- l John 1:5-10.

A great heresy arose during the closing years of the first century. It threatened the utter Subversion and destruction of the Christian religion. Peter wrote against it (2 Peter 2:1219). Jude wrote a blistering message against it (4, 10-19). Paul foretold it in his parting address to the Church of Ephesus (Acts 20:18-35) and in his Second Epistle to Timothy (3:1-8). John hurled his fiercest invectives against it in his first epistle, of which our text is the preliminary summary. Even Jesus condemned it in His message to the churches (Rev. 2:6 and 14-16).

These false teachers were variously called Nicolaitanes and Gnostics. They went everywhere infesting the churches, denying the real incarnation of Christ and the reality of His atoning death. Their primal dogma that all evil resided in matter and did not affect the soul, was a heathen notion imported from Eastern Asia. Under its baleful influence even church members imbibed the idea that they could be purified in soul by a mental knowledge of God, and could then indulge their bodies in any form of vice . without spiritual detriment. A gross licentiousness resulted, consecrated by a false profession.

Irenaeus says of them: "They assert that they themselves will be saved, not by practice, but because they are spiritual by nature, and that, as gold, though mingled With mire, does not lose its beauty, so they themselves, though wallowing in the mire of carnal works, do not lose their own spiritual essence; and therefore, though they resort to the banquets which the heathen celebrate in honor of their false gods, and abstain from nothing that is foul in the eyes of God or man, they say that they cannot contract any defilement from these impure abominations, and they scoff at us who fear God as silly dotards."

In other words, these vile heretics taught that "a man might be an outrageous violator of moral law and yet be a pure and holy saint." It was a subtle error most pleasing to carnality, and struck a deadly blow at Christian morality. The aged apostle wrote this epistle as a defense of CHRISTIAN PURITY FROM SIN against Gnostic purity IN SIN. He says: "These things have I written concerning them that seduce you" (1 John 2:26).

There is a constant series of burning antithetical ideas, issues between the true view and the Opposite error, stated in the most intense language. John put all the earnestness of his Christ-like soul into it, because he saw that the foundations of Christian purity were involved and Christianity itself was at stake.

1. -- Then consider the text as a whole. There are six verses in all, with three antithetical or opposing ideas, two verses to each. The first verse of each pair of verses states the Christian truth of pardon, purity, and full salvation. The second verse of each pair is not a description of Christian character at all, but is a stunning blow at the doctrine and practice of these vile teachers who are seducing Christians from morality, and by their practice were uniting professed sanctity with unspeakable depravity.

Let us consider these verses by pairs, and the truth will appear. In the fifth verse the apostle teaches that "God is light, and in Him is no darkness at all." In other words, God is light. His children will be children of the light and of the day. They will walk in the light of moral purity, and will be without darkness, like their Father.

Verse six gives the antithesis, -- a blow at the seducers: "If we say (he meant, If YOU say) that we (you) have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness (as your false teachers say and do), we (you) lie and do not tell the truth." That is, "You simply cannot have fellowship with a holy God and practice vice as you are doing; and if you say that you do, YOU LIE." It was terrific plainness, and he simply softened it by saying "we" instead of "you," to make the castigation a little more acceptable.

Take the next pair of verses. Verse 7 gives the blessed hope of salvation: "If we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship one with another (we and God), and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanseth us from all sin." This is the way of full salvation and complete deliverance from all sin. Walk in the light of God in faith and obedience, and He will cleanse our hearts "FROM ALL SIN" Sin of every kind will be taken away.

Verse 8 is the antithesis -- another fearful blow at heresy: "If we (you) say that we (you) have no sin (and no need of a Savior from all past sins, as your vile teachers would have you believe), we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us (you deceive yourselves and the truth is not in you)."

You Nicolaitan Gnostics affirm that your wicked vices are not wrong, and that when you practice them you commit no sin; but you are simply deceiving yourselves. You will not get rid of your sins by denying them, but by confessing and forsaking, and by praying for an application of the cleansing blood of Jesus.

Look now at the third pair. Verse 9 gives us again the blessed truth of full salvation: "If we confess our sins He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." This verse tells us how one may walk in the light of a holy God, and obtain justification and sanctification and complete deliverance from all unrighteousness of heart) . God has a perfect cleansing for us all.

Verse 10 gives the third antithesis -- another blow at the doctrine of these corrupt teachers: "If we say we have not sinned (as these seducers say), we make Him a liar and His Word is not in us." In others words: "If you Gnostics, or any that accept your doctrines, say you have not sinned, while you are wallowing in shameless orgies of vice, you make God a liar and His Word is not in you."

II. -- If now we write the first verses of these three pairs together, and then write the second verses together, the correctness of our interpretation will be more apparent.

Verse 5: "God is light, and in Him is no darkness at all."

Verse 7: "If we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanseth us from all sin.

Verse 9: "If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." These three verses are the Gibraltar of the Christian faith, an epitome of the gospel of full Salvation. Jesus has made ample provision for us to be justified and sanctified, pardoned and cleansed, from ALL SIN and ALL UNRIGHTEOUSNESS, and thus made clean and holy. It is not salvation IN sin, but salvation FROM sin, of every form and degree. It is what we al must have to get to heaven. The other three verses, antithetical to these, are a scathing denunciation of the teaching of the Gnostics, who were corrupting the churches by teaching that people could be in a saved relation with God and yet be living in drunkenness and licentiousness. Notice how they read, and think of the pronouns as being in the second person, instead of the first, and all will be plain.

Verse 6: "If we (you) say that we (you) have fellowship with Him and walk in darkness, we (you) lie and do not the truth."

Verse 8: "If we (you) say that we (you) have no sin, we (you) deceive ourselves (yourselves) and the truth is not in us (you)."

Verse 10: "If we say we have not sinned (as these seducers say while practicing all sin), we make Him a liar and His Word is not in us."

Just such antithetical passages fill the entire epistle, and show to a demonstration that the beloved apostle was writing against the teaching and practice of Antinomian heretics who were teaching a salvation IN vice rather than FROM vice. John himself said, "These things I write concerning them that seduce you." The above grouping of these verses makes this Scripture perfectly plain, and robs it of all its seeming contradictions.

 2009/2/18 22:54Profile





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