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Discussion Forum : General Topics : Protecting Our Property (and please pray)

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graceamazed
Member



Joined: 2008/11/3
Posts: 77
Tennessee

 Protecting Our Property (and please pray)

I have a close friend who owns his own business. A few months ago he began having thieves and vandals break in and damage and steal property from him. My friend is a great guy, he is a believer and spent much of the past decade in Mexico working in full-time missions work. My friend is also an avid hunter who owns many guns and has a consealed-weapons permit.

When people began breaking into his business (a manufacturing facility) he started spending the nights at his company in hopes of catching or scaring the perpetrators. Well, after just a few nights he did just that. Being aware that someone was breaking in, he first called the police from his cell phone to report the burglary, then he made a citizens arrest by pulling his gun on the intruder and had him lie on the floor with his hands behind his head until the police arrived and took him to jail. My friend made the front pages of the paper and was very excited that he had thwarted the robbery and had protected his property.

Now, this past week, my friends business was being broken into again. So, (since it worked the first time) he began last night staying at the warehouse again. Things turned out differently this time though. From what we know, my friend was again alerted to someone breaking in, so he called 911 to report the burglary and, while still on the phone with 911, he had an encounter with the perpetrator(s). The police won't give out much information to the family, but apparently the 911 operator heard someone yelling at him to "put your hands up", then they heard a shot fired. When the police arrived they found my friend had been shot in the head.

Currently, he is in critical condition and "not expected to make it". In my opinion, its already a miracle that he initially survived being shot in the head at close range. So, I would first of all like those who read this to be praying for him and his family (he has a wife, 2 sons and 4 grandchildren). His name is Jeff.

Secondly, I would like to pose the question, as its been an issue that I've talked to many people about in recent months (including Jeff): To what extent should we go to protect our property and our family? Perhaps Jeff would not have been shot if he himself did not have a gun (perhaps he would have anyways)? He certainly would not have been shot if he had not put himself in such a situation. But what was he to do...allow people to continue vandalizing and stealing from his company? Or was he right to do what he could to protect his livelihood?

With many people in America getting more and more desperate due to the declining financial situation, I would say that "break-ins" might be on the rise in many places. Should we go to arms to protect ourselves? Or should we submit to God and trust that He is sovereign and can/will stop such people from harming us and our property? These have been questions that I've been mulling over for some time on a personal level, today's events only bring it much closer to home. After all, Jeff and I had this conversation not too long ago, perhaps I should have been more persuasive one way or another.


_________________
Buck Yates

 2009/1/30 13:52Profile
LoveGodsWay2
Member



Joined: 2008/10/9
Posts: 143
Ohio, USA

 Re: Protecting Our Property (and please pray)

graceamazed,

I am very sorry about your friend Jeff and I will be praying for him & his family.

As to your question about protecting our families & property, I would personally do whatever it take to protect my family. My property is different. I wouldn't risk a lot to protect it.

Maybe Jeff wasn't wrong it protecting his business, but errored in his method. How did the thief(s) find him without him seeing the thief(s) coming? Maybe he should have locked himself in a room, called the police & allow them to engage the thief(s).

Anyway, I'll be praying.

 2009/1/30 14:29Profile
fuehrerbe21
Member



Joined: 2008/10/21
Posts: 151
Wisconsin

 Re:

i will pray for jeff and his family.

i agree that this is a difficult question. for family, i would be willing to die. property is different, but it is a shame that others would feel it is ok to enter into private property and try to take something that is not theirs.

Praise God he knows the Lord as Savior!


_________________
Ben Fuehrer

 2009/1/30 17:33Profile
NoWhining
Member



Joined: 2009/1/16
Posts: 67
East Texas

 Re:

Our prayers are with all of you, Grace Amazed. I have wrestled with this as well. Once, we had a scary situation happen at our store, and I'm sure they were going to rob us. I knew it, felt it, and kicked myself for being unarmed and not able to protect myself or my wife. But they (3 men) stood around then left. Now I am armed.

One thing I know, and was taught by my first concealed carry instructor, is if you're unsure of taking a human life, then do not carry a gun. Indecision will cost you. It may have happened with Jeff, or it's a good chance Jeff was surprised by a second gunman. May God restore him to his family and friends. Don


_________________
Don

 2009/1/30 19:28Profile
graceamazed
Member



Joined: 2008/11/3
Posts: 77
Tennessee

 Re:

Well, its 9:45 here in Tennessee and Jeff is still alive, but has not improved. It appears that there was a second gun man, as we've found out he had already apprehended one man before he called the police and while he was on the phone it appears someone else came up behind him. Still no arrests have been made.

As for the question of "to arms or not to arms"... I'm sure this is a bit of a subjective question and will vary from individual to individual. I personally have a revolver in the top of my closet (I own 3 bullets to the gun and have never fired it). My hand gun was passed down to me after my grandfather died, otherwise, I probably wouldn't have one. About three months ago there were a couple of houses in our neighborhood that were broken into. Having this in mind, I was wrestling with whether or not I would use the gun should something happen. Within the week my wife and I were both awakened by a loud noise that sounded like it came from our walk-out basement (the obvious place I would think someone would try entering our house). Two things happened immediately, first, I was gripped by a sense of fear (which isn't very common for me) and second, my trust was fully set on getting to my revolver and its three bullets. There was no peace, no call on the Lord, no sense of a Psalm 23 safety, just a full dependence on the safety that my little pistol could bring me. Turns out, no one was in the house, no doors or windows had been messed with and I have no explanation for the noise. I think the Lord might have just caused us to be in that situation to reveal to us what our hope was placed in.

I wrestled with God for most of the next day, until I finally came to the resolution that I would not use my gun, even if I thought someone was in the house. What did I do, I started praying more for the safety of my family and I started making a conscious effort to put my sense of security in the Lord. I'm trusting that He is sovereign and able to frustrate the plans of those who would seek to harm me. I'm not saying this is "the more excellent way", but it was the conclusion that brought me peace.


_________________
Buck Yates

 2009/1/30 22:35Profile
theopenlife
Member



Joined: 2007/1/30
Posts: 926


 Re:

GraceAmazed, I'll be praying for everyone involved and notifying others to do the same.

Here is a thread which follows a similar theme, and may lend some insight.

[url=http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?viewmode=flat&order=0&topic_id=24335&forum=44&post_id=&refresh=Go]I got jumped and robbed[/url]

Blessings in the grace of Christ.

 2009/1/31 0:40Profile
theopenlife
Member



Joined: 2007/1/30
Posts: 926


 Re:

*edit*

glitch.

 2009/1/31 0:41Profile
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re: Thieves

Hi brother, keep us updated on Jeff, will you?

My prayers ...

Honestly, wrestling with your questions I am so very reluctant and find really no good answer to all of this ... if I could just think out loud, think along with you here ...

It seems that each of has to decide many of these matters for ourselves, independent ultimately even if we take in a variety of opinion to draw our 'conclusions'. That seems a bit too obvious ...

This is now one of those 'what if' situations in reverse - Now it's in hindsight rather than foresight. And I am often troubled by these very speculations ... only now it is a brothers life hanging in the balance.

Again, am thinking out loud, this is proving more difficult than I know ... Maybe a jump to something you mentioned;

Quote:
Two things happened immediately, first, I was gripped by a sense of fear (which isn't very common for me) and second, my trust was fully set on getting to my revolver and its three bullets. There was no peace, no call on the Lord, no sense of a Psalm 23 safety, just a full dependence on the safety that my little pistol could bring me.



Brother, fear is not always a bad thing - It's part of our wiring to alert us to danger - [i]unfounded fear[/i] being altogether different. I don't know about berating ourselves too much in situations ... I would like to think 'both' and I might even wonder if you weren't really praying underneath it all, even if it wasn't cognizant at that moment ... Of course, I wasn't there ... And again, my problem with so much of opinion and speculatings ...

I am certain that we all will react differently when that thing, that situation is upon us and I find that your friend did what he thought needed to be done and can find no fault in it or with him. Even yourself ... Now, it is even more difficult to not get into yet another 'what if' but let me just throw this out there ... why not both? [i]Trust[/i] the Lord and [i]use[/i] the pistol - If necessary?

It's all tragic and I have been always a bit ... it's always sat a bit skewered to me how far a certain pacifism is taken - I am want to say different in persecution (For the Faith) and that oft, strangely omitted mention from the Lords own lips to [i]flee[/i] when the inference often seems to be one of [i]embrace[/i]. "Live by the sword, die by the sword" seems taken all out of context in my opinion - a statement of fact on the one hand and a key element being [i]'Live by'[/i] ... But there is far too much that is alluded to throughout scripture, even in allusions to or as illustrative of, for instance the verse that came readily to mind reading all of this;

[i]No man can enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he will first bind the strong man; and then he will spoil his house.[/i]

The context being what it is, is it still not derived from the very resistance that it implies?

The other thought is something I recall that Austin Sparks mentioned in a sermon here, a paraphrase of sorts ... That [i]there is no law except where there is first lawlessness[/i]. The former being the remedy for the latter.

Now that I think of it, the Lord alluded to thieves quite a bit didn't He? And just now the recollection came of my mother and her great disdain for [i]sneaks, thieves, cheaters and liars[/i] and I can see her eyebrows turned downward and the fire in her eyes, that piercing stare - even a glance when those words were being put to my hearing for something I got caught in, some suspicion that she being a mother and having that extra sense they have, those extra eyeballs in the back of their heads ...

Ah brother, I do not know for certain - There is fault here to be sure and it is on the perpetrators, not on anyone else.

May the Lord restore Jeff speedily.


_________________
Mike Balog

 2009/1/31 9:21Profile
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7445
Mississippi

 Re: Protecting Our Property (and please pray)

So sorry to hear about your friend Jeff's misfortune...Hope he recovers well...

Quote:
With many people in America getting more and more desperate due to the declining financial situation, I would say that "break-ins" might be on the rise in many places. Should we go to arms to protect ourselves? Or should we submit to God and trust that He is sovereign and can/will stop such people from harming us and our property?



Brother, this question disturbs many people, especially those of us who preserve food by canning or freezing or who have a well stocked pantry. What if people become aware of our stash of food? Will they resort to violence to get it? And what should our attitude be? Should we give it out knowing full well it may never be replenished? Or should we have the attitude the wise virgins had towards to foolish ones? Too many of us who embrace non-resistance as a lifestyle we find this question disturbing. Since it has not happened yet, the only conclusion I come to is that the Holy Spirit will be there to teach us how to respond when this happens. I do not think I am being naive or simplistic but simply realistic: I have no control over the future nor of evil men in our community, but God does and since this is the case, we would do well to rely on him for instructions. If we get harmed, this will not come as a surprise either - He allowed it.

Yes, I see the potential of people running out of food in the days ahead. May we be wise as serpents and harmless as doves..

ginnyrose


_________________
Sandra Miller

 2009/1/31 10:41Profile
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7445
Mississippi

 Re:

Quote:
I wrestled with God for most of the next day, until I finally came to the resolution that I would not use my gun, even if I thought someone was in the house. What did I do, I started praying more for the safety of my family and I started making a conscious effort to put my sense of security in the Lord. I'm trusting that He is sovereign and able to frustrate the plans of those who would seek to harm me. I'm not saying this is "the more excellent way", but it was the conclusion that brought me peace.



God bless you brother.

ginnyrose


_________________
Sandra Miller

 2009/1/31 10:49Profile





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