SermonIndex Audio Sermons
Image Map
Discussion Forum : Revivals And Church History : Physical Manifestations in Religious Excitments (falling under the power of God)

Print Thread (PDF)

Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 Next Page )
PosterThread
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Quote:
What if a person 'goes out in the Spirit' and gets up acting like the devil when they get out to the parking lot? Should we not question what happened? As a Classical Pentecostal since I was a child that stuff has always bothered me.


It bothers me too, but then it bothers me when someone changes for the better without choosing it. Is imposed holiness really holiness?

I have heard lots of testimonies to this. 'Look at the fruit', they cry. but it bothers me if there was no preceding repentance. It bothers me when apparent grace is bolted on to unconfessed unrighteousness.


_________________
Ron Bailey

 2004/10/13 15:20Profile
RobertW
Member



Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
Independence, Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
I have heard lots of testimonies to this. 'Look at the fruit', they cry. but it bothers me if there was no preceding repentance. It bothers me when apparent grace is bolted on to unconfessed unrighteousness.



Amen. I became a bit unpopular in some Pentecostal minds when I said at the beginning of the year that I believed it was time to fall forward on our faces and repent instead of backwards. So what shall we make of these things?

God Bless,

-Robert


_________________
Robert Wurtz II

 2004/10/13 15:30Profile
Gideons
Member



Joined: 2003/9/16
Posts: 474
Virginia

 Re:

Amen again. I've been at this type of service as well. If there's no real conviction of sin and no subsequent repentance, what does this amount to?

Is it purely an emotional response? I'm looking at this in the context of my own life and am not trying to judge anyone else but if it's really the Holy Spirit there should be real conviction of sin. How we respond to it is up to us.


_________________
Ed Pugh

 2004/10/13 15:40Profile
dohzman
Member



Joined: 2004/10/13
Posts: 2132


 Re:

Rember---Jesus was very God and had the Spirit without measure.Being God he needed not experience the things we must needs experience in many ways.There are excesses and misuses even in the things of God, but that doesn't make them false or even wrong.There was a point in Jesus' ministry where his mother and brethren came to get him saying he was beside himself, you can conclude something outward was happening there that compelled them to try to remove Jesus' , however the Holy Spirit did not deem it nessary for us to have specific knowledge on that or many other things.Maybe God doesn't what us to limit him or place him in a box but in all things learn to discern through prayer and communion with Jesus the things we see that happen in the church. God bless.


_________________
D.Miller

 2004/10/13 22:37Profile
sermonindex
Moderator



Joined: 2002/12/11
Posts: 37423
"Pilgrim and Sojourner." - 1 Peter 2:11

Online!
 Re:

Quote:
There was a point in Jesus' ministry where his mother and brethren came to get him saying he was beside himself, you can conclude something outward was happening there that compelled them to try to remove Jesus' , however the Holy Spirit did not deem it nessary for us to have specific knowledge on that or many other things.


That in no way makes Jesus to be like some of the leaders in movements where the church service is like a circus. Jesus also is our litmus text for ourselves as Christians. We are to walk and do things like Jesus did. We are to express ourselves through the fruits of the Spirit as He did.

[b]1 John 2:6[/b] - He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.


_________________
SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2004/10/13 22:44Profile
dohzman
Member



Joined: 2004/10/13
Posts: 2132


 Re:

John 21:25 And there are also many other things which Jesus did, which if they were written...............It's interesting that the movings of God---not the slight of man---become a point of contention.There are misuses but that doesn't mean there isn't a true move.Many times the Lord responds to the person seeking and not through the preacher even though it appears as though he is using that person.Fruit?Yes , we are to bear fruit , but that doesn't have anything to do with the movings of God in meetings.Fruit is what the world is to see in us.


_________________
D.Miller

 2004/10/13 23:10Profile
sermonindex
Moderator



Joined: 2002/12/11
Posts: 37423
"Pilgrim and Sojourner." - 1 Peter 2:11

Online!
 Re:

Quote:
we are to bear fruit , but that doesn't have anything to do with the movings of God in meetings.Fruit is what the world is to see in us.


What are the fruits of the spirit? isnt one self-control? another peace? The apostle paul in 1 Corinthians explicity states that christian fellowships where the Holy Spirit is present will be under control, for God is not an author of confusion. You cannot contrast what happens supposedly under some ministries in our day and what the scriptures show as ideal christian fellowship and worship.


_________________
SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2004/10/13 23:14Profile
Gideons
Member



Joined: 2003/9/16
Posts: 474
Virginia

 Re:

Amen Greg,

The only distinction that I would make is that it is fruit of the Spirit. There are no fruits. Only one fruit and everything has to be connected together. In other words we must have each thing in order to have the fruit "But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law."

"And when he (i.e. the Holy Ghost) is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment."

Whenever I'm a gathering, I look for the evidence of the convicting power of the Holy Spirit in my own heart and those around me. There is no greater miracle than passing from death to life and that's my hope and prayer wherever I'm at.


_________________
Ed Pugh

 2004/10/13 23:26Profile
dohzman
Member



Joined: 2004/10/13
Posts: 2132


 Re:

I will not defend ministries I don't know, however I believe a careful study of Pauls preaching will lead you to conclude that sometimes what we see as decent and in order isn't what God calls decent and in order.To many examples to list throughout the entire bible let alone the very life of Jesus.I believe what Paul is addressing here is that all things must be done in thier turn so as not to give the appearence of mass confusion. A careful study of revivals and church history and thier movements will help with this falling out buisness.John Wesley even had similar experiences happen in his meetings.But againg let state---In America----much of what we see is a gross misuse of something that does in fact exsist, where men ---for what ever reason--let God be thier judge----seem to manipulate the people and the moves of the Spirit.But I know personally people who have be touched by God healed of incurable illnesses only to later find out the preacher was in sin.God still responds to his childrens cry even though it may appear he's using a ministry or preacher.


_________________
D.Miller

 2004/10/13 23:40Profile
todd
Member



Joined: 2003/5/12
Posts: 573
California

 Re:

Quote:
"The 'laying on of hands' was clearly a NT fact of life, but this expectation that an individual can 'produce the goods' is something different."

I don't know what you mean by "produce the goods." I don't know if any one of these people would make that claim. I think it might be something more like [i]demonstrate[/i] the goods. The power of God flowing through a a person. It seems that this is more of the kind of expectation (faith) that we need- for is it not ultimately faith in the power of God?

Acts 19:11
"And God was performing extraordinary miracles [b]by the hands of Paul[/b]"

Quote:
" I am reluctant to say where I think the power is coming from, but I am profoundly disturbed that it can be accessed with such ease.
Kathryn Kuhlman was reported, by her official biographer, to have used 'slaying in the spirit' as a tool to control others on the platform who became too prominent.
To me, this control of others and other powers sounds more like magic than genuine faith."

Who said it could be easily accessed? We don't know what individuals have gone through to find that place with God where He can trust them with higher realms of authority and power.

Remember what Elisha did when he was mocked by those youth? How Paul dealt with Elymas? It seems there are places in God that we no little, if anything, of. I think it's a very wise move, and in yours and everybody else's best self-interest, not to judge these things outright but to tread very carefully here.
We don't know exactly how God's government functions in these times, but it seems He has always delgated authority to key individuals whom He has chosen. This specific case of Kathryn Khulman might just be one modern example of this.

Quote:
"It bothers me too, but then it bothers me when someone changes for the better without choosing it. Is imposed holiness really holiness?

I have heard lots of testimonies to this. 'Look at the fruit', they cry. but it bothers me if there was no preceding repentance. It bothers me when apparent grace is bolted on to unconfessed unrighteousness."

Why does this bother you? I don't think you would put it this way outright (maybe because it's not right), but are you basically saying you want people to have to earn it more?

Even so, let's not forget the humility and desperation for God it takes for most people to enter into this kind of experience (to [i]choose[/i] to let go and let God control). Have you considered that?

 2004/10/15 0:03Profile





©2002-2020 SermonIndex.net
Promoting Genuine Biblical Revival.
Affiliate Disclosure | Privacy Policy