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HeartSong
Member



Joined: 2006/9/13
Posts: 3156


 Re:

Quote:
Chris wrote:
I still think that we need to avoid the use of absolutes with our rhetoric regarding an issue that isn't entirely clear.


He is absolute.



Quote:
HomeFree89 wrote:
I do not ask this to start a fight, but rather for us to examine and see what damage this might do.


Try looking at it in light of what good it might do.

 2009/1/1 15:11Profile
ccchhhrrriiisss
Member



Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4496


 Re:

Hi Heartsong...

Quote:
Chris wrote:
"I still think that we need to avoid the use of absolutes with our rhetoric regarding an issue that isn't entirely clear."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

He is absolute.


What does that mean? Of course our Lord is absolutely right in all that He says and does. But can we state with absolute certainty that we know where God absolutely stands on this subject? We know that He wants Biblical modesty and for us to flee from vanity...but do we know the extent of God's desire regarding something so superficial as the wearing of any [i]makeup[/i]? It is quite the allegation to make regarding the thoughts of God!

We can hold true to our convictions...but we need to be cautious when claiming that the specifics regarding those convictions are undeniably the wishes of God.


_________________
Christopher

 2009/1/1 16:40Profile
HeartSong
Member



Joined: 2006/9/13
Posts: 3156


 Re:

In regards to myself, I am absolutely certain where God stands on this issue. He has made His wishes perfectly clear.

As for the rest of you, that is between you and Him.

rbetty asked a question. I felt led to bring forth what the Lord has shown me. It is now between her and the Lord.

Unless the Lord has shown you that this issue is "superficial" - it would seem to me to be very unwise to label it as such. Our ways are not His ways.

 2009/1/1 23:41Profile
ccchhhrrriiisss
Member



Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4496


 Re:

Hi HeartSong...

I am not saying that this issue is "superficial" in a practical sense -- but I know some people who act as if the weight of salvation depended upon whether or not a woman wore a little blush!

As for whether or not this issue is clear: I am perfectly fine with people who think that they heard the "final word" of the Lord regarding this matter (at least, for them personally). The problem arises when people try to assume that their belief and God's opinion of the matter are one and the same (and it is still only a [u]belief[/u]...because it is not clearly spelled out in the Word beyond all variance of opinion)...and that all must adhere to it if you are one of those who "really hear God's voice and truth."

Of course, I know that this isn't your intention or even what you are saying. But there is a 16 year old little sister who asked a sincere question. Should any of us act as though we KNOW what God ultimately and undeniably thinks of the matter? I think that Brother Paul said it best when he stated that this is a matter for the Holy Spirit to work out with a sincere believer who prayerfully and earnestly seeks the truth and a clear conscience before God.

You may think that you know where God "absolutely" stands on the issue for you personally...and my wife may feel somewhat different -- even after earnestly seeking the answer from God. My wife does not have an "absolute" answer either way about the matter. She rarely wears much makeup anyways...and doesn't feel any spiritual prohibition when she does (of course, she doesn't "cake it on"). When she does where makeup, it is usually a little blush...or lip gloss...or pimple-cover...which looks very natural...and doesn't look any different from those girls who have this occur on their face naturally. She feels confident in her liberty to wear such things from time to time...and she is a very prayerful and modest woman. Yet my wife would be VERY hesitant to tells someone that God "absolutely" told her the answer.

The principle remains, however. We must strive to have a clear conscience before God and operate in the liberty that He provides while cautious in our representation of His holiness to this dark world. However, this does not mean that we are to live like the Amish who shun any color out of FEAR that they are drawing attention to themselves (or are being "worldly" by wearing the color orange...or yellow...or red...etc...). I am concerned that our attempts to impress this young sister in the Lord with such strong statements might be the equivalent of taking some of the responsibility that is reserved for the Holy Spirit.

:-(


_________________
Christopher

 2009/1/2 0:30Profile
Dawn10379
Member



Joined: 2006/3/29
Posts: 42


 Re: women/girls wearing makeup

No, sweetie. Wearing make-up is not bad. It is not a sin, and no matter what anyone says you should seek the Lord on this issue and not [i]mans[/i] doctrine. If it is a conviction that you feel the Lord has given you to not wear make-up then you should listen to the Lord. But there are so many people who want to sway others with mans opinion instead of the Word of God and instead of encouraging you to seek out His will for your life.

Please just seek the Lord in this matter and if He is not telling you that it is wrong for you then you shouldn't feel shame or guilt for wearing make-up. I hope that the Lord guides your heart in this matter. =0)


_________________
Dawn

 2009/1/2 1:42Profile
White_Stone
Member



Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 1196
North Central Florida

 Re: women/girls wearing makeup

Good Morning, rbetty,

So, how does this issue stand with you? You are getting plenty of justification for wearing make-up, aren't you? Does that make you feel it is OK?

Many of the men say that their wives only wear a little 'blusher.' They seem more interested in justifying their wives wearing and their appreciation of it, then they are for seeking to find out more about you.

No one seems to have tried to get any idea of just what you mean when you say you are thinking of wearing make-up. Do yo have friends in school that do wear it? Do they use eye liner, eye shadow and mascara? Do they use a foundation and blush for contouring? Do they use the glitter for highlighting? Do they use the highly glossy lip coating? How about lip liner? Or, the lipstick with flavoring? Can you spot their makeup from a block away? Or, is it subtle and unnoticeable?

Of the teenage girls in the grocery and stores when I am shopping, there are two groups that I see; those that do not wear makeup and those that do. Those that do are young and have yet to learn that less makeup is attractive and flattering. More is cheapening and coarse. I remember being 16 and mistakenly glamorizing the idea of being viewed as wanton and wild. My family did not express any objection to my wearing makeup. My Mother encouraged me in my dreams of being glamorous and seductive. She gave me very bad advice!

My family attended Church and I was involved in activities with the other youth at the Church. I remember the girls who did not wear makeup, they learned to play the piano and studied higher education. I had nothing in common with them. My family life was not supportive to the life style they had and I viewed them as boring and plain. How wrong I was. They were busy laying a firm foundation for their lives, one founded upon Jesus. I faced my future with no firm foundation. A foundation of vanity is treachrous and leads to Hell (right here on Earth and after death, too).

If you approach life thinking, 'If I only could enhance this feature, they will notice me, or approve of me,' how do you think it will work for you? You are what you are, that is how God formed you, try staying as close to that as you can because, you know it is good in His eyes.

Do I wish I had been given Godly parents? I did but now I have forgiven them for their ways. I have learned to accept the good providence of God that I was at least born in a Country that still allows me to read the Bible and follow my convictions. I could have been born in a Muslim Country and had the face of Jesus hidden from me for my whole life. Thank God, He kept calling me until He unstopped my ears and I could hear Him. I can not change any of my past but, Lord willing, I can use my experiences for His glory.

What I want to say, first and foremost from what I have read in the Bible, we are called to come out of the world. Of course, we still have to live on Earth and must interact with other Humans, but we do not have to adapt their customs and habits.

If you keep yourself pure you will be better suited for a Godly man. If you marry a Godly man you stand a better chance of having Godly children and of living a Godly life. If you are leading a Godly life, God will reveal more of Himself to you and this will bring more joy then you are able to undestand at 16. My walk with God did not begin until later in my life. The sting and pain of my sins will always be with me. If in any way I can help another avoid the traps I fell into - this is my wish.

In retrospect, I wish I had emulated the lives of the Godly young women in my Youth Group and not started wearing makeup. They talk, in all the anti-drug commercials, about 'entry level' drugs, I pesonally believe, makeup is addictive and drug like in it's effects. If you never used it you would never miss it. Just listen to the ones who say they use it recreationally. How they justify it. If it was not something wrong, why do they have to justify.

They say it is a 'gray' area and that there is no Biblical reference 'directly' against it, they go by their conscience. It is safer to err on God's side than on the World's side, in my opinion. Especially when advising a young girl about something that is such a slipery slope.

You will be in my prayers and I look forward to hearing from you. Please, first and foremost, continue reading the Bible. You can not go wrong if you are grounded in God's word. Pray for Wisdom and to do His will.

Kindest regards,
white stone


_________________
Janice

 2009/1/2 11:31Profile
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7432
Mississippi

 Re:

Chris,

I have a question for you: why are you so defensive about this issue? I suspect your toes may have been stepped on...?

ginnyrose


_________________
Sandra Miller

 2009/1/2 11:43Profile
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re:

Quote:
So, how does this issue stand with you? You are getting plenty of justification for wearing make-up, aren't you? Does that make you feel it is OK?

Many of the men say that their wives only wear a little 'blusher.' They seem more interested in justifying their wives wearing and their appreciation of it, then they are for seeking to find out more about you.



And you would misrepresent us, though we have appealed that she seek the Lord over this.

Besides;

Quote:
Of the teenage girls in the grocery and stores when I am shopping, there are two groups that I see; those that do not wear makeup and those that do. Those that do are young and have yet to learn that less makeup is attractive and flattering. More is cheapening and coarse.



You are contradicting yourself and those you accuse of 'justifying' themselves or their wives when you just now forward the same exact idea. What is the problem?

Quote:
Do I wish I had been given Godly parents? I did but now I have forgiven them for their ways.



[i]The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican. I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.[/i] Luk 18:11,12

Quote:
In retrospect, I wish I had emulated the lives of the Godly young women in my Youth Group and not started wearing makeup. They talk, in all the anti-drug commercials, about 'entry level' drugs, I pesonally believe, makeup is addictive and drug like in it's effects. If you never used it you would never miss it. Just listen to the ones who say they use it recreationally. How they justify it. If it was not something wrong, why do they have to justify.



The grand point of all of this is not justification but the striking down of this legalistic, Pharisaical spirit - which you have, which you promote and which is weaved through like a poison in your comments.

And Ginny, not to speak in Chris' stead but I believe this is the root of his likewise indignation.




[i]If a man on the sabbath day receive circumcision, that the law of Moses should not be broken; are ye angry at me, because I have made a man every whit whole on the sabbath day?
Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.[/i] Joh 7:23,24


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Mike Balog

 2009/1/2 12:13Profile
HeartSong
Member



Joined: 2006/9/13
Posts: 3156


 Re:

June 29th.



DIRECTION OF DISCIPLINE


"And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell." Matthew 5:30

Jesus did not say that everyone must cut off the right hand, but - If your right hand offends you in your walk with Me, cut it off. There are many things that are perfectly legitimate, but if you are going to concentrate on God you cannot do them. Your right hand is one of the best things you have, but, says Jesus, if it hinders you in following His precepts, cut it off. This line of discipline is the sternest one that ever struck mankind.

When God alters a man by regeneration, the characteristic of the life to begin with is that it is maimed. There are a hundred and one things you dare not do, things that to you and in the eyes of the world that knows you are as your right hand and your eye, and the unspiritual person says - Whatever is wrong in that? How absurd you are! There never has been a saint yet who did not have to live a maimed life to start with. But it is better to enter into life maimed and lovely in God's sight than to be lovely in man's sight and lame in God's. In the beginning Jesus Christ by His Spirit has to check you from doing a great many things that may be perfectly right for everyone else but not right for you. See that you do not use your limitations to criticize someone else.

It is a maimed life to begin with, but in v.48 Jesus gives the picture of a perfectly full-orbed life - "Ye shall be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect."



My Utmost for His Highest
by Oswald Chambers

 2009/1/2 12:34Profile
ccchhhrrriiisss
Member



Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4496


 Re:

Sister Ginny...

Quote:
I have a question for you: why are you so defensive about this issue? I suspect your toes may have been stepped on...?

Not in the least! I am a guy...and married to a woman who I think is the most beautiful in the world! She rarely (and I mean RARELY) wears any makeup at all!

I suppose that I am, however, worried about those who would attempt to step on the toes of this little sister with their own particular opinions about the matter (but would attribute those opinions as the undeniable truths of God).

You see, sister, this is a difficulty here on SermonIndex. We are a collection of heartfelt believers from many different backgrounds and stages in our Christian pilgrimage. Is this the place to push our opinions as fact...or to discuss them with patience (considering others before ourselves)? It may seem that those who are against makeup are simply "sharing" -- but why do we need to speak with absolutes regarding this issue? I've noticed that those who are willing to hold the measuring rod in regard to issues of "holiness" are often the one's who feel the liberty to vocally share their views in a manner that is indisputable (at least, to them). It shouldn't be that way with those who are against makeup OR those who say that they feel the liberty to wear some.

The bottom line of holiness is to know what God thinks of the matter...and if that is not clear, to strive for a clean conscience before God. It isn't to have denominations and seperate congregations that interact only with those who adhere to a particular set of rules regarding the conduct or physical propriety of holiness (unless it is EXCEEDINGLY clear from God's Word). While some may feel that God's thoughts about makeup are exceedingly clear in His Word -- I think that there is a problem with this! Are we so quick as to make such a presumption when it isn't entirely spelled out in the Word of God? We are connecting dots "A" and "Z" because we think that we know the end of the route. Yet we don't know the interlining dots between "A" and "Z" might form a more perfect map. The end of the question for that little sister (rbetty) can only be answered by the Holy Spirit as she seeks a clear conscience. We can share...but we need to be careful that our "sharing" doesn't take the form of "this is what God wants."

Now, this is usually a small matter (in terms of eternity). There are things that we can be firm about and speak with absolutes...because they are absolutely spelled out in the Scriptures. This? This is a lot of opinion.


*EDIT - I know that the path to eternity is "straight and narrow." Yet I think that it is presumptious to assume that those who aren't walking exactly as we walk (or feel that we should walk) are NOT on the "straight and narrow." I'm not saying that you (or anyone else here) is doing as much...but these sort of conversations often have a way of straying into such rhetoric (or impressions...even if they aren't meant as such).


_________________
Christopher

 2009/1/2 12:39Profile





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