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Discussion Forum : Revivals And Church History : Just who IS responsible for this state of affairs?

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philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Quote:
So that means that anyone in the local church might potentially bring the message? Everyone is a candidate depending on who God choses to use?


potentailly, yes. the foot cannot say to the eye, I have no need of thee.


_________________
Ron Bailey

 2008/12/23 13:26Profile









 Re:

Blessed Incarnation Recognition week to all.



Not to truly enter the conversation except to say that this last post had hit an emotional/spiritual tender spot.

Quote:
Quote:RobertW wrote:
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So that means that anyone in the local church might potentially bring the message? Everyone is a candidate depending on who God choses to use?
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Philologos wrote:

potentailly, yes. the foot cannot say to the eye, I have no need of thee.



That both dear brothers use the word "potentially" here is understandable.

What hit my heart personally, is that I almost feel it as a mandate from our Lord to every "member" of His Body to do so.


[i]Nay, much more those members of the body, which seem to be more feeble, are necessary: and those members of the body, which we think to be less honorable, upon these we bestow more abundant honor; and our uncomely parts have more abundant comeliness.[/i]



Blessings all in His Body!


 2008/12/23 14:09
Compton
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 2732


 Re:

Quote:
I just have to entrust them to God.



Amen. (Love can make it difficult sometimes.)

The irony for me is that even when I learn this hard lesson as a parent for my own few children, it is easy to forget or not apply it when I turn to consider the millions of people that comprise "The Church" and society...whom I have even less direct influence over. I share this admission in the context of the title of this thread.

Blessings Robert,

MC


_________________
Mike Compton

 2008/12/23 14:59Profile
TaylorOtwell
Member



Joined: 2006/6/19
Posts: 927
Arkansas

 Re:

Quote:
So that means that anyone in the local church might potentially bring the message? Everyone is a candidate depending on who God choses to use?



Quote:
potentailly, yes. the foot cannot say to the eye, I have no need of thee.



Just to bring another Scripture to bear on this situation:

[i]...and what you have heard from me in the presence of many witnesses entrust to [b]faithful men[/b] who will be able to teach others also... (2nd Timothy 2:2)[/i]

Perhaps I am wrong, but it seems to me that the privilege and responsibility of explaining the Scriptures is not something that [b]anyone[/b] in the assembly should/can do.

In Acts 6, men were set apart for preaching of the Word (the Apostles), and men were set apart for handling more domestical duties (the deacons).

In 1st Corinthians 14, prophets are given the freedom to speak in the assembly - but not everyone in the assembly is a prophet.

With care in Christ,
Taylor


_________________
Taylor Otwell

 2008/12/23 15:08Profile









 Re:

Quote

'In 1 Corinthians Paul speaks about a circumstance in which 'the whole church is gathered together'; this probably means the whole company of believers in Corinth. This would still be 'the church in Corinth' as a gatherable unit and hence accountable through its 'leaders'."

This is what we do not see today. In any city or town, it seems implausble that the "whole church," would be gathered together. While some of the "the church,' may be technical translations, it still stands that we do not see the word "churches," in the Scriptures unless it is in reference to a region rather than a town or city. While there may be large towns and cities with too many believers to gather together in one spot, when they had to, they came together as "the church," of that town or city. Oh what joy if genuine believers in every town and city could gather together. It would show the world, that despite some non-essential doctrinal differences(Luther would never have imagined 70,000 denominations) that we stood together......perhaps the Lord is waiting on just that.........brother Frank

 2008/12/23 15:32
RobertW
Member



Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
Independence, Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
The irony for me is that even when I learn this hard lesson as a parent for my own few children, it is easy to forget or not apply it when I turn to consider the millions of people that comprise "The Church" and society...whom I have even less direct influence over.



Amen MC, that is most sobering and very true. I guess I keep telling myself I'm going to just give them over to God, but the reality is that is very hard to do. It's the whole baby in the basket thing.


_________________
Robert Wurtz II

 2008/12/23 15:38Profile









 Re: Just who IS responsible for this state of affairs?

Quote:

philologos wrote:
I have a simple word for all who complain about the state of 'the church'... mind your own business! ;-)



:-)

 2008/12/23 16:00
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Quote:
Perhaps I am wrong, but it seems to me that the privilege and responsibility of explaining the Scriptures is not something that anyone in the assembly should/can do.


I am sure you are right but exposition is not the only way that 'the Word of his grace' comes into a gathering.


_________________
Ron Bailey

 2008/12/23 16:05Profile
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Quote:
it still stands that we do not see the word "churches," in the Scriptures unless it is in reference to a region rather than a town or city.


Only I & 2 Corinthians, and 1 & 2 Thessalonians are specifically written to 'the church in X'. Romans, Ephesians and Colossians are written to the 'saints' in those cities.


Quote:
Oh what joy if genuine believers in every town and city could gather together.


I fear it would be a farce. I tremble that someone might actually try to organize it.


_________________
Ron Bailey

 2008/12/23 16:14Profile
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re: The word of his grace

I have realized that I may be presuming too much of those who might read these posts. Some know the background to this thread but others may not have the elements in place.

A vital element of this theme is the concept of 'the word of his grace'. This is a phrase which comes from Paul's admonition to the elders from the church in Ephesus. In Acts 20:32 Paul in making his concluding statement where he commends these elders 'to the word of his grace which is able to build you up, and to give you an inheritance among all them which are sanctified.' Paul is trusting these men and the church in which they serve to 'God and to the word of his grace...'

It is important to understand the context of this statement. When Paul speaks of the 'logos of his grace' he is not speaking primarily of the Bible; most of the New Testament was unwritten at this time. He is not putting his trust in the organisation that he has left behind but in God himself and in the enabling word of God as it is brought into their lives.

This is a challenge for all 'follow up' thinking. How do we ensure that our converts 'go on'? Paul's answer would be 'get them relying on God and in the way he can bring his enabling word into a life.' Is he for real??? :-( This kind of naive counsel is completely unrealistic, new converts need structure and patterns dont' they? How different the New Testament is to what most of us have every experienced.

Paul believed, I mean really believed, in the power of the Holy Spirit to take converts on. Paul speaks of 'the word of his grace'. Grace is not only unmerited favour, it is also enabling power. He is saying pretty much what the Lord said in the wilderness...'man lives by the word which is proceeding from the mouth of the Lord.' The tenses here are important; it is the word which IS PROCEEDING from the mouth of the Lord. It is what God is saying at this moment of time. Do we really believe that God is able to sustain us day by day... by Himself?

Of course, in our day, he may well bring that 'word of his grace' through the scripture. Alternatively he may bring it through a hymn, or through a testimony, or ... and this is probably one of the main ways... through a word of prophecy when the saints were gathered together in the local church.

I'll pause... or as Robert sometimes says 'I'll just go and get my helmet'.


_________________
Ron Bailey

 2008/12/23 17:47Profile





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