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Discussion Forum : Revivals And Church History : Just who IS responsible for this state of affairs?

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philologos
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Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Quote:
At the same time, they would be part of a local church, elders in a local church, and they would go out as the Lord led.

As at Antioch. "Now there were in the church that was at Antioch certain prophets and teachers..."


but if you read the earlier chapters you discover that they all appear to be 'imports' and possibly temporary imports?


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Ron Bailey

 2009/1/1 16:04Profile
philologos
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Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Quote:
1. God desires to make Himself known to man.
2. Although we cannot see Him and live, we can hear Him and live.
3. We have some praying ground in common with Moses (Ex. 33:12-13).


As you read Exodus -Deut each time you read of Moses say to your self 'the mediator of the covenant'. I think you will find it instructive. :-)


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Ron Bailey

 2009/1/1 16:22Profile
ADisciple
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Joined: 2007/2/3
Posts: 835
Alberta, Canada

 Re:

Quote:

philologos wrote:
but if you read the earlier chapters you discover that they all appear to be 'imports' and possibly temporary imports?



Yes, I agree that's likely the case here.

But does this mean all who have a "throne-room" ministry have no local church where they are considered to be a member of the body there?

Lets say a pastor or a teacher (or a pastor/teacher, as some hold) lives in Ephesus, and has a family there, and a job. Isn't he a part of the lampstand in Ephesus? He's one of the elders at Ephesus, likely.

And when the Lord of the church calls him to go to, lets say, Smyrna, for a season, he is still minding his own business. He teaches there for a season as the Holy Spirit directs, and then goes back home.

Meanwhile back at Ephesus while he is away, the poor little flock isn't floundering helplessly in the absence of their pastor, but continue to function vitally.

AD


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Allan Halton

 2009/1/1 16:29Profile
philologos
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Joined: 2003/7/18
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Reading, UK

 Re:

Quote:
dohzman on 2009/1/1 3:12:31
I always thought the purpose of the local church was to raise up missionaries to reach the lost around the world,


When Paul wrote to Timothy he said it was so that Timothy would know 'how to behave in a church, which is a house of God'. This is not 'the church' in the Universal sense but a local church and Paul calls it a house of God.

What is a house for? It is a place to live. Who lives in Daryl's house? who lives in Ron's house? What is the purpose of 'God's house'?
;-)


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Ron Bailey

 2009/1/1 16:33Profile
philologos
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Joined: 2003/7/18
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Reading, UK

 Re:

Quote:
But does this mean all who have a "throne-room" ministry have no local church where they are considered to be a member of the body there?


I don't mean itinerary is the sense that he needs to be constantly on the move. Philip was home long enough to have quite a family! Acts 21:9


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Ron Bailey

 2009/1/1 16:37Profile









 Re:

Sister Joan quotes from a previous thread....

“Christianity as an institution has long been occupied with things: churches, clergy, teachings, doctrines, religious things. The "house church movement" is similarly engrossed in the dynamics of how to meet, where to meet, and what to do when meeting. The "charismatic movement" is obsessed with alleged manifestations and spiritual gifts. The "prophetic movement" is absorbed with what they think God is saying, doing, or about to do. Paul was preoccupied with a Person,”

If all of us were as preoccupied with a person, the person of Jesus and His presence it would all be a lot more simple. We have a need to explain and understand all things, typically ego driven. Endlessly discussing and debating about how things should be, and then, suddenly, God is is in the midst. God is in the midst. And then we know that we really do not know anything, and that in His presence is the essence of all things. How do we enter into His presence? What is His presence? Whether you meet in a Cathederal, or a strip mall or a conventional church or a house or someones's basement or out in the field, it would not matter if He was there. If this were our grand obsession, if we were pre-occupied with His presence, with walking with Him, then the rest would not matter. I think Enoch may have known this...brother Frank

 2009/1/1 18:09
ADisciple
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Joined: 2007/2/3
Posts: 835
Alberta, Canada

 Re:

Quote:

philologos wrote:
Quote:
Please enlarge on this for us. What does "active faith in Jesus Christ to lead his church" involve?


It means not putting your trust in a principle but in Christ himself. Several times in Hebrews in one way or another we are enjoined to 'consider Him'...'we have such an high priest'. See how the writer focuses on the person of Christ in all his 'offices'.

Christ as personal High Priest interceding is a familiar point, as is the seated High Priest reigning but Christ as the High Priest walking among the lampstands.. there is much less spoken of. And yet we all pay lip service to the notion that Christ 'is in the midst' but do we really believe it?



I've been thinking of the following verse in the context of this thread.

"For where two or three are gathered together in My Name, there am I in the midst of them" (Mt. 18.20).

As you said, "Do we really believe it?"

This is a function of the candlestick, isn't it? The Light of the world shining in the candlestick, whether it be two or three, or some larger gathering.

It is Christ who is the Apostle, the Prophet, the Evangelist, the Pastor, the Teacher... And not just way up there on the Throne of Heaven, but right here in our midst by the Holy Spirit.

And so any apostle or prophet or evangelist or pastor or teacher must minister in union with, and as an expression of, Christ (the Apostle), Christ (That Prophet), Christ the Evangelist, Christ the Pastor, Christ the Teacher... so that their ministry is a manifestation of Christ Himself walking among the lampstands, tending, trimming the lamps.

We certainly need an awakening to this, so that more and more, He who is "in our midst" isn't there just secretly, somehow, but shines forth and is seen, and recognized.

What an awesome prospect.

I have been thinking, and hoping that this thread is more than just an academic consideration of an ideal. Are we laying this to heart? There's a cost involved.

But if we lay it to heart, and seek Christ about this, it is going to cause change.

It is certainly going to bring a cross into the lives of those who take this seriously.

AD


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Allan Halton

 2009/1/1 19:09Profile
psalm1
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Joined: 2007/1/30
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 Re:

Did you know that God forbids 'angry prayers'? 1Tim 2:8

And drunkenness?

"13Some, however, made fun of them and said, "They have had too much wine"

Acts 2;13

 2009/1/1 20:58Profile
philologos
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Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Quote:
by ADisciple on 2009/1/1 21:09:33



Amen, Amen, Amen


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Ron Bailey

 2009/1/2 4:57Profile
RobertW
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Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
Independence, Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
ADisciple's: It is certainly going to bring a cross into the lives of those who take this seriously.



Amen. One of the things I experienced in the UK was the love of God and the grace of God in the 'word of His grace'. I am so used to hearing a high octane, "thus says the Lord" type utterance that purports to speak for God but is somehow coming off as anything [i]but[/i] meek and mild.

[color=000066]But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be entreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy. (James 3)[/color]

This passage requires that a person be in unity with Christ when they speak. There is no way to fake this. But so often when prophetic utterances come (in my experience) they are not easy to be entreated. You have the sense that you are being force fed something. This is not always the case, but in the UK I found a gentleness and meekness that didn't make me feel like I was under the arm of an angry father with a belt or a rod in His hand.

And I am coming to wonder what it is about men of God that want to present God in a way that thrashes and thunders when Jesus said:

[color=000066]Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light. (Matthew 11)[/color]

Moffatt translates "easy" as "[i]kindly[/i]." That is the meaning in the Septuagint for persons. We have no adjective that quite carries the notion of kind and good. The yoke of Christ is useful, good, and kindly. (Robertson's)

How refreshing is that? Why is Jesus depicted in other ways than this? Perhaps because of the book of the Revelation. But there must be no contradiction here. Christ is either offering an easy yoke or He is not. And even after all of the Majestic and fearsome ways He is presented in Revelation we still read at the end:

[color=000066][u]I Jesus[/u] have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely. (Revelation 22)[/color]

That is a precious thing. "I Jesus" as if to remind us that in Him there is no shadow of turning. Jesus Christ the same yesterday, today and forever. He is still meek and lowly and offering a kindly yoke.

So we see then what God will bless. He will bless a [i]right[/i] representation of His Son. We should ask ourselves why we do not receive Revival when we ask for it. Is it because we ask [u]amiss[/u] that we may consume it upon our own lusts? In other words, could it be because men have allowed their own wrath to color the person of Christ and God refuses to 'sign off' on that depiction of Christ by sending revival? We ask and we receive not. I truly believe that when a decision is finally made to rightly represent Christ we will see God's hand of blessing. We have already had a John the Baptist.


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Robert Wurtz II

 2009/1/2 5:39Profile





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