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ChrisJD
Member



Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA

 Re:

Old_Joe,


Yes, full of questions.


Consider what you are doing in the hearts and minds of others with your actions here.


You said, in one case, it will help others determine their condition.


You are not God.


_________________
Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2008/12/29 10:16Profile
rbanks
Member



Joined: 2008/6/19
Posts: 1257


 Re:

There is a lot of self preservation in this thread and very little godly edifying.

May I say that when we venture out of the scriptures is when we always get into trouble.

Neither eternal security nor conditional security is taught in the bible. Jesus did not preach either one nor did the apostles. There will always be arguments over men's doctrines.

We must not lean to our own understanding but trust in the Lord with all our heart.

Self can be just as must involved with a person believing in eternal security as it can be in one who believes in conditional security.

Salvation, eternal life is Christ. He who hath the Son hath Life. It is not he who has eternal security that is going to live for ever but He who is in Christ. He (Christ) is my eternal security. Christ does not give any man eternal security, He gives himself to that man. We are told to abide in Him.

2Co 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

Heb 12:14 Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:
Heb 12:15 Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled;
Heb 12:16 Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright.
Heb 12:17 For ye know how that afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing, he was rejected: for he found no place of repentance, though he sought it carefully with tears.

 2008/12/29 10:51Profile
TaylorOtwell
Member



Joined: 2006/6/19
Posts: 927
Arkansas

 Re:

Quote:
Neither eternal security nor conditional security is taught in the bible. Jesus did not preach either one nor did the apostles. There will always be arguments over men's doctrines.



Hi Brother, Please see the post I made a few posts down. I tried to plainly demonstrate the preservation of the flock of God from the Scriptures.

Quote:

And I will make an [u]everlasting covenant[/u] with them, that [b]I will not turn away from them[/b], to do them good; but I will put my fear in their hearts, that [b]they shall not depart from me.[/b] (Jeremiah 32:40)

Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the [u]everlasting covenant[/u]... (Hebrews 13:20)

I mention the Hebrews verse to show that the Jeremiah passage is talking about New Covenant promises. This is no "philosophy", this is simple Scripture reading.

People are simply going to have to ask themselves: "do I want to cut this verse out of my Bible, or do I want to believe it?"

Yes, we know that there are verses in the Bible that warn against apostasy. Every sound believer that believed the Bible's promises on God's preservation of his people has exhorted professors to make their calling and election sure. However, the Bible plainly states that those who partake in the New Covenant both are preserved by God, and will never turn away from God.

With care in Christ,
Taylor


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Taylor Otwell

 2008/12/29 13:14Profile
rbanks
Member



Joined: 2008/6/19
Posts: 1257


 Re:

Quote:

TaylorOtwell wrote:


People are simply going to have to ask themselves: "do I want to cut this verse out of my Bible, or do I want to believe it?"






Heb 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him









Yes, we know that there are verses in the Bible that warn against apostasy. Every sound believer that believed the Bible's promises on God's preservation of his people has exhorted professors to make their calling and election sure.








2Pe 1:10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
2Pe 1:11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.







Quote:

However, the Bible plainly states that those who partake in the New Covenant both are preserved by God, and will never turn away from God.







Heb 3:12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
Heb 3:13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.
Heb 3:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;


 2008/12/29 14:39Profile









 Re:

Quote:

rbanks wrote:
Neither eternal security nor conditional security is taught in the bible. Jesus did not preach either one nor did the apostles. There will always be arguments over men's doctrines.



Actually, there are few things more clearly revealed in the Bible than eternal security. That is what what a Christian has when they have EVERLASTING life. Read this again:

John 6:47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath EVERLASTING life.

Once one has everlasting life, can it end? NO! Once one is born again, can they become unborn again? NO! Once one has become an adopted son of God, can they become unadopted? NO! Once one has been sealed of the Spirit of God can they become unsealed? NO! NO! a thousand times NO!

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have EVERLASTING life.

John 10:27-28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall NEVER perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.


Old Joe

 2008/12/30 0:40









 Re:

Quote:

Old_Joe wrote:
When Paul says that "Christ died for the ungodly", are you ungodly?



No takers so far, well here is my answer. YES, I am 100% ungodly.

If anyone would like further clarification let me know.

Old Joe

 2008/12/30 0:42
bible1985
Member



Joined: 2008/8/13
Posts: 354


 Re:

you know their our many verses that proclaim eternal security and some that proclaim conditional, maybe the bible contradicts itself or they should not have put in certain books, who knows. I trust that the bible is perfect and infallible but these verses do bug me but i feel paul is talking about something different hear, maybe he is saying if it is possible.

 2008/12/30 1:50Profile
ChrisJD
Member



Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA

 Re:

Hi again everyone,

I think it is important to keep in front of us the Bible words when men are speaking more and more of their [b]own words[/b].


A good sandwhich can be delicous. It would be very bad though if someone put rotten meat between the bread.



Jude warns


against [b]ungodly men[/b] verse 4


that are [b]twice dead[/b] verse 12


that [b]seperate themselves[/b] verse 19



"Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life."


- Jude 1:21


_________________
Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2008/12/30 8:59Profile









 Re:

Quote:

ChrisJD wrote:
Hi again everyone,

I think it is important to keep in front of us the Bible words when men are speaking more and more of their [b]own words[/b].


A good sandwhich can be delicous. It would be very bad though if someone put rotten meat between the bread.



Jude warns


against [b]ungodly men[/b] verse 4


that are [b]twice dead[/b] verse 12


that [b]seperate themselves[/b] verse 19



"Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life."


- Jude 1:21



Ah yes, Jude's warning is against those that are ONLY ungodly men. Keep going on this though and you will get to the full answer.

Hint: Hypostatic union is a type.

Oh, I might as well spill the beans. As Christ is 100% God and 100% man so those who are regenerated in Christ are 100% ungodly and 100% godly at the same time. What remains of self is 100% ungodly, and what is of Christ in the believer is 100% godly. The unbeliever is ONLY ungodly and has no possibility of being godly apart from the regenerating work of the Holy Spirit. Yet on the other side of this, the religionist will not admit to being ungodly, and thereby sets up a righteousness based in self. This is why Paul says so clearly that Christ only died only for the ungodly, specifically for those who see themselves as ungodly.

Once regenerated, the war in the believer BEGINS, yet the outcome is assured because it is Christ fighting in the believer on the behalf of the believer. To say that the believer is the one doing the overcoming/persevering is to say that the believer's ungodly nature is what is causing them to persevere and actually robs glory from Christ who alone is doing the fighting on the believer's behalf.

Miracle of miracles, the greatest miracle is the salvation and sanctification of a single soul.


Old Joe

 2008/12/30 9:52
ChrisJD
Member



Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA

 Re:

Old_Joe,


You said,


Quote:
Ah yes, Jude's warning is against those that are ONLY ungodly men. Keep going on this though and you will get to the full answer.




No, not only ungodly. He said they were twice dead also.


Old_Joe, what do you mean here, do you mean to go on through more of your words?



Old_Joe, why should I believe anything that you say? I do not mean that in anyway disrespectfully. But why?



The Bible says that [b]every word of God is pure[/b].


Please let me ask this as respectfully and gently as I can try to, are yours?



You said before this,



Quote:
Attempting to keep EVERLASTING life that has been given you, is nothing other than questioning the EVERLASTING nature of it.





But Jude says,

"Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life."

- Jude 1:21(KJV)




You said,


Quote:
To say that the believer is the one doing the overcoming/persevering is to say that the believer's ungodly nature is what is causing them to persevere...





But John the Apostle does not use these words you have written(1Jn 5:18).

And the Lord Jesus Christ does not use the words that you have written here either(Rev 2:26).






The Lord Jesus said,





[b][color=660000]My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me. If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or [i]whether[/i] I speak of myself. He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him.
[/color][/b]


from John 7:16-18(KJV)


_________________
Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2008/12/30 10:39Profile





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