SermonIndex Audio Sermons
Image Map
Discussion Forum : General Topics : The Grinch People Are Back Again

Print Thread (PDF)

Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 Next Page )
PosterThread
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re: Why I 'pounced'

Quote:
If you could show me, in Scripture, the worship of Christ's birth - by the church, not by the angels or shepherds or the wise men, I might relent on my stance.



Luk 2:7 And she brought forth her firstborn son, and wrapped him in swaddling clothes, and laid him in a manger; because there was no room for them in the inn.

Luk 2:8 And there were in the same country shepherds abiding in the field, keeping watch over their flock by night.

Luk 2:9 And, lo, the angel of the Lord came upon them, and the glory of the Lord shone round about them: and they were sore afraid.

Luk 2:10 And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people.

Luk 2:11 For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.

Luk 2:12 And this shall be a sign unto you; Ye shall find the babe wrapped in swaddling clothes, lying in a manger.

Luk 2:13 And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God, and saying,

Luk 2:14 Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men.

Luk 2:15 And it came to pass, as the angels were gone away from them into heaven, the shepherds said one to another, Let us now go even unto Bethlehem, and see this thing which is come to pass, which the Lord hath made known unto us.

You seem to be greatly contradicting yourself sister. Take out the scriptures that you would otherwise appeal to?

I wonder sometimes if, a very big if at that but suppose there was no Roman arrangement as it were. That for the sake of argument the Protestants took it upon themselves to set one day of the year to magnify this monumental moment and perhaps they might have called it Christday, would it then be appropriate?

The trouble I have with so many of these things is the superstructure that has to be held together with things that many would do away with as a matter of course.

The times that were, [i]the Church came this way[/i], through history as it happened, there is nothing that we can do this side of it short of bellyaching over the matter. They did what they did to setup something in opposition and perhaps even appease the masses (no pun intended), what of it?

The trouble is in merging the arguments - Is it truly a 'pagan' argument or is it due to being "unscriputral" and if it is truly the later, then we have more problems than we know. Christian websites are not in the scripture either.

Have yet to hear a good argument about what to do with "Monday" "Tuesday" or what we are going to protest about the myriad of 'pagan' activities that we all partake in daily as a matter of course, which are also unscriptural, being that they have no mention either.

It is a rather strange brew that what little is left of Christ Jesus in the public arena is also being wished done away with by those who bear His Name. I do believe that is the heart of what Charlie Daniels is after.

Some exaggeration surely, I realize that you would not be purposefully forwarding this, but others that have this so nailed down to being distinctly ... evil, decidedly 'pagan' would have to recognize that even the inception of the idea of Christmas is far from it's origins over the course of history - And yes, in some ways far worse in extravagance and materialism - Even the meaning and reason itself is completely lost on the masses. So in that effect those opposing should be winners, you have attained your goal - Proved out that the thing should not be celebrated - Who is left but those that find some joy and warmth, family - Love - That even some of the worst of people find themselves affected by this magical season, I said it! It is a very strange and wondrous thing ... for some of us. Why is it? A mere illusion, sheer sentimentality? The devil playing the weirdest of tricks on us ... compassion and breaking down the defenses of our hearts for just a few weeks ... ?

Their is such a vast and different response to this thing we call Christmas that it makes it impossible to put into such a narrow straight jacket.

But for some of us still, we still find that the course of all history was changed in a moment ... Why if the angels didn't rejoice they would be devils. Why on earth should we not celebrate it?

Random, late night thoughts ...


_________________
Mike Balog

 2008/12/18 0:53Profile
MaryJane
Member



Joined: 2006/7/31
Posts: 3057


 Re:

Greetings

I have been praying about this matter of celebrating Christmas for a while now. I have read many things on both sides of the discussion. One of the things I happened across this evening was this written by Spurgeon. I had not read this before but it has given me even more to think and pray about. Not trying to sway anyone one way or the other just thought I would share this with you here on SI. For me the nagging question that I am struggling with is Why? Why am I spending this time of year doing the things that I am.

Anyway just my random thoughts here on a very cold winter night(14 degrees and dropping)

God Bless
MJ


“When it can be proved that the observance of Christmas, Whitsuntide, and other Popish festivals was ever instituted by a divine statute, we also will attend to them, but not till then. It is as much our duty to reject the traditions of men, as to observe the ordinances of the Lord. We ask concerning every rite and rubric, “Is this a law of the God of Jacob?” and if it be not clearly so, it is of no authority with us, who walk in Christian liberty. (from Charles Spurgeon’s Treasury of David on Psalm 81:4.)

“We have no superstitious regard for times and seasons. Certainly, we do not believe in the present ecclesiastical arrangement called “Christmas.” We find no Scriptural warrant whatever for observing any day as the birthday of the Savior, and consequently, its observance is a superstition, because not of divine authority. Superstition has fixed most positively the day of our Savior’s birth, although there is no possibility of discovering when it occurred…. It was not ‘till the middle of the third century that any part of the Church celebrated the nativity of our Lord; and it was not ‘till very long after the Western Church had set the example, that the Eastern adopted it.… Probably the fact is that the ‘holy’ days were arranged to fit in with the heathen festivals.

We venture to assert, that if there be any day in the year, of which we may be pretty sure that it was *not* the day on which the Savior was born, it is the 25th of December. “How absurd to think we could do it (celebrate the birth of Christ) in the spirit of the world, with a Jack Frost clown, a deceptively worldly Santa Claus, and a mixed program of sacred truth with fun, deception, and fiction. If it be possible to honor Christ in the giving of gifts, I cannot see how while the gift, giver, and recipient are all in the spirit of the world. The Catholics and high Church Episcopalians may have their “Christmas” one day in 365, but we have a Christ gift the entire year.” (—Charles H Spurgeon December 24, 1871)

 2008/12/18 1:19Profile
TroyorTakoda
Member



Joined: 2008/12/13
Posts: 46


 Re: What does God think?

The length of a post does not bother me. What bothers me is someone who judges someone else for celebrating something they don't celebrate, when we are not to allow that to happen.

Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of a feast day or a new moon or a sabbath day

The kingdom of God does not lie in the observance of outward things, but in internal ones, in righteousness and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

If someone says to me that they don't celebrate a day called "Christmas" but rather they celebrate Jesus every day of the year, I have absolutely no problem with that. I will go on celebrating Christmas on December 25th, and I will go on loving my brother who does not celebrate that day.

Romans 14:1 says Accept him whose faith is weak, without passing judgment on disputable matters and James 4:11 says Speak not one against another, brethren.

I will boldly brush aside any and all ideas which seek to divide the body of Christ, because we are one.

1 Cor. 8:6 For us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.

We can argue all day and even be right all day but if we don't have love we are still wrong. The apostle Paul in 1 Corinthians 13:1-3 had this to say about the matter: If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am become sounding brass, or a clanging cymbal. And if I have the gift of prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge; and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. And if I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and if I give my body to be burned, but have not love, it profits me nothing.

Since Christians are brethren, they should not defile nor defame one another. It is required of us that we be tender of the good name of our brethren; where we cannot speak well, we had better say nothing than speak evil. What is this but to raise the hatred and encourage the persecutions of the world, against those who are engaged in the same interests with ourselves, and therefore with whom we ourselves must stand or fall? (Matthew Henry)

To speak evil of one another is what the men of the world do, and from them it is expected; but for the saints to speak evil one of another, to sit and speak against a brother, and slander an own Fathers's son, is barbarous and unnatural. (John Gill)

We set up our own standards, or our own interpretations, and then we judge others for not complying with them, when in fact they may be acting only as the law of Christianity, properly understood, would allow them to do. (Albert Barnes)


Rom 14:3 Let not him that eateth set at nought him that eateth not; and let not him that eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.

Other denominations, though they may differ from us on some subjects, may give evidence that they are recognized by God as His, and where there is this evidence, we should neither despise nor judge them. (Albert Barnes)

1Co 12:4-6 Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit; and there are varieties of service, but the same Lord; and there are varieties of activities, but it is the same God who empowers them all in everyone.

1Co 12:12 For just as the body is one and has many members, and all the members of the body, though many, are one body, so it is with Christ.

1Co 12:15 If the foot should say, "Because I am not a hand, I do not belong to the body," that would not make it any less a part of the body.

1Co 12:26 If one member suffers, all suffer together; if one member is honored, all rejoice together.

If you think your particular brand of church is the only one and everyone else is going to hell you make yourself out to be a false accuser of the brethren and a cultist.

His love is perfected by our loving each other. It is incomplete unless His love for us is supplemented by brotherly love. This love in us is the proof that God is in us.


_________________
Troy A Lasseigne

 2008/12/18 6:42Profile









 Re:

Troyer! Amen... this is exactly what I have been trying to say, but you put the words together much better than me!

Mike... excellent. Good thoughts, even if they were random and late at night!

Krispy

 2008/12/18 8:08
White_Stone
Member



Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 1196
North Central Florida

 Re:

Dear crsschk,

Quote:
white stone:If you could show me, in Scripture, the worship of Christ's birth - by the church, [b]not by the angels or shepherds or the wise men[/b], I might relent on my stance.



How much clearer can I make it? Please read Sister MaryJane's post following yours. She quotes Charles Spurgeon and he says the same thing I say. Perhaps you can hear Him through his words.

The Church is in a desperately apostate state and drastic changes are needed to bring about the much longed for and desperately needed revival. Let us clear out all the Man Made routines and traditions and feed directly on the Word of God fed us through the grace of our Lord Jesus.

Kind regards,
white stone


_________________
Janice

 2008/12/18 10:01Profile
MrBillPro
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 3229
Texas

 Re:

You know after reading this whole thread, I am now more curious to why some folks don't want to observe Christmas, I mean did you not get a certain present you really wanted as a kid? or did you come from a really poor family that could not afford Christmas? did generations of your family members not celebrate Christmas? have you listened to others opinions to draw your conclusions? or maybe a culture thing? or are you just jealous that others do? or yes you knew this one was coming are you just a Grinch? see where I am going here? My family members for generations have always celebrated Christmas so we don't know any different. It's not Biblical that we should not celebrate Christmas, so this is why I would just like to see why folks on the other side of the coin so to say don't want to or are against Christmas.
Thanks
Mr. Bill


_________________
Mr. Bill

 2008/12/18 10:10Profile
White_Stone
Member



Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 1196
North Central Florida

 a reply to two Brothers in Christ

Dear TroyorTakoda and KrispyKritter,

It pains me to see you have to work so hard to justify your ManMade holiday. Especially to the length you go to use Scripture to do it.

Yes, the Angels sang and the shepherds came and knelt in wonder but that was on the occasion of His birth into the world. If the day of His birth was to be commemorated it would have been done by Paul, of that I am certain. For Paul, himself, said he was 'all things to all men. . .' No other mention of celebration, beyond His mother cherishing those things in her heart. Nothing until the 3rd century - were all those Saints before then remiss in celebrating an undocumented Holy Day?

To have a thread dedicated to Christmas Memories only serves to lift up the holiday in peoples minds and hearts, making it have a 'magical' importance it has not been given by God.

It breaks my heart to think of missionaries, saving souls and then infecting them with the man made celebration. Believe me, the celebration of Christmas is an infection and it has spread to the whole world. They love it, unsaved people love it [b]because it is OF THE WORLD - NOT OF GOD.[/b] My prayers is that God will open your eyes to that, for your sake not for my own satisfaction of being proved right. My own self is nothing - Jesus is everything!

white stone


_________________
Janice

 2008/12/18 10:17Profile
MrBillPro
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 3229
Texas

 Re: a reply to two Brothers in Christ

Quote:

White_Stone wrote:
To have a thread dedicated to Christmas Memories only serves to lift up the holiday in peoples minds and hearts, making it have a 'magical' importance it has not been given by God.
white stone



Wow! you really read more into Krispy's thread than needed, all he did was start a thread asking folks about there past personal Christmas experiences, how on earth is this some kind of 'magical' importance? I really hate to say this but I will and please don't read more into it than needed but you really "seem" like a bitter person for some reason. I am not calling you bitter "for the record" I am just judging by some of your posts here, that is all I have to go by since I don't know you personally.


_________________
Mr. Bill

 2008/12/18 10:26Profile
White_Stone
Member



Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 1196
North Central Florida

 double negatives in a sentence and celebrating traditions

Dear MrBillPro,

Quote:
It's not Biblical that we should not celebrate Christmas



Hey, It is not Biblical that we should not drive a car, or not use air conditioning, or not use computers. Laying aside known traditions is not a simple act. It is not possible to do by oneself. It requires the power of the Holy Spirit to strip a lifetime of worldliness from our souls when we accept Jesus as our Lord. You can not put new wine in old bottles. The Holy Spirit is at work in each of us, cleaning house, scrubbing the walls and sidewalks of our heart. It is not a work that gets completed in our lifetime. We will always need scrubbing and mucking out.

We choose who we will serve, let us serve the Living God not the world.
____________________
Had this discussion with a woman on another forum. Her late Father was a pastor and set much store by Christmas. She could not turn her back on the man-made day without feeling she was turning her back on her much loved Father. This may stand in the way of many Saints who are puzzling this issue. We should never let anything stand between us and God.

Is is not my wish to cause anyone distress by making you feel you are deserting your family in this tradition. If the family sees, by your example, they may be saved also. If they are already saved - this does not mean they are free of the [i][color=FF0000]infection[/color][/i] of celebrating a man-made tradition. My prayer is for you to spread the cure.

Kind regards,
white stone


_________________
Janice

 2008/12/18 11:07Profile
MrBillPro
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 3229
Texas

 Re: double negatives in a sentence and celebrating traditions

Quote:

White_Stone wrote:
It requires the power of the Holy Spirit to strip a lifetime of worldliness from our souls when we accept Jesus as our Lord.
Kind regards,
white stone



I am confused here, so are you saying for example Bill Gates "owner of Microsoft" and probably owns more worldly things than most ever will even see, has to get rid of all his money and possessions before he can accept Christ in his life. Bill and Linda probably give more to charity than anyone I know of, but I guess if your rich the Holy Spirit will need to strip a lifetime of worldliness from us to get into the kingdom, wow I really did not know our salvation was conditional, maybe so I learn new things everyday.


_________________
Mr. Bill

 2008/12/18 11:15Profile





©2002-2019 SermonIndex.net
Promoting Genuine Biblical Revival.
Privacy Policy