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BlazedbyGod
Member



Joined: 2007/8/22
Posts: 462


 Re:

Quote:

KrispyKrittr wrote:
Quote:
Is " I am the LORD you God, thou shalt have no other God's beside me" old covenant?



Hold on... if we follow this out to it's logical conclusion pretty soon we wont be just debating the Sabbath... we'll also be calling lobster an "abomination", and not trimming the edges of our beards, and stoning our children for mouthing back at us.

This is a "slippery slope" because this eventually leads to trying to keep the Law. If you're going to keep the Law then you must keep ALL of the Law in order to please God.

Here is the crux of the issue... is there anything we can do to make ourselves worthy of His love?

No.

Our righteousness is in Christ, and Christ alone.

Krispy



Krispy, that may be how this conversation turned out with others that you have had it with, but that is not my mind frame.

As a matter of fact, I had lobster last night-lol.. (you must keep in mind I am not talking about the Law of Moses, that is where lobster being an abomination, stoning children etc is-but there is none of such in the 10 Commandments brother.

Also, am I saying this to TRY and make myself worthy of his love-NO, I know that it is by HIS own free will that he loves me, and loved me first without any thing of myself.

But, let me ask you Krispy:

Is " I am the LORD your God, thou shalt have no other Gods before me" old covenant?

Also, I think for some strange reason, I need to remind some what the 10 Commandments are:

Exodus 20: 1 And God spake all these words, saying, 2 I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. 3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me. 4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: 5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; 6 [b]And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments[/b]. 7 Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain. 8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: 10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: 11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

12 Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee. 13 Thou shalt not kill. 14 Thou shalt not commit adultery. 15 Thou shalt not steal. 16 Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour. 17 Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.


Jesus said: John 14:15 15 If ye love me, [b]keep my commandments[/b].

Krispy, you said: Our righteousness is in Christ and Christ alone.

While our righteousness is in Christ, yet, what did Christ himself say:

John 3:15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: [b]for thus it becometh TO [u]US[/u]FULFILL ALL RIGHTEOUSNESS[/b]. Then he suffered him.

Christ is not the only one who had to fulfill ALL righteousness, he said "US"

And scripture declares:

1 John 3:7Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, [b]EVEN AS HE (Christ) is righteous[/b]. ....10In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother

1 John 2:29 If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him

Christ was not lawless....remember to those who practice lawlessness he will say "depart from me, I never knew you, who committeth iniquity.."

[u]US[/u]

 2008/12/3 17:11Profile









 Re:

Quote:

BlazedbyGod wrote:
Another question for you:

Is " I am the LORD thy God, ....thou shalt have no other gods before me" old covenant?




Again the answer is yes it is Old Covenant (I fixed the typo's), and is very clearly expanded by New Testament revelation. It being the first and highest of the 10 commandments, it makes all the other commandments subject to it. The Jews believed that commandment so fervently, that they even rejected the Author of it for making His claim to the title.

God the Son as Author of that verse and being progressively revealed, is the one who came to earth as Sin-bearer. He was revealed as though through a veil in the OT, but was much more clearly revealed in the NT. It is the commemoration of the "LORD thy God's" resurrection, baptism, etc, sabbatarians have placed secondary to a Sabbath Law that originally was made for their benefit. In looking for life through what was written instead of who it was written about (John 5:39-40) they simply have not seen through the law to the gospel.

Each one of the 10 commandments is further developed in the New Testament, including the 4th. We are to look at the 10 commandments as revealed in Ex 20 and Deut 5 as a partial revelation in part of a larger whole as revealed by examining them through the gospel. IE: If we were to consider the commandments as the earth, and the gospel as the universe it should become clearer. The earth is a part of the universe, but only a part, wheras the universe contains the whole, including the earth. To simply take the commandments as they are developed in the Old Testament for instruction to life without looking at them through the gospel leaves one feeding on ashes.

My question was not implying that you might think only sabbatarians are saints, but considering they have exalted the fourth commandment at the expense of the first, what exactly leads you to believe that any sabbatarians are truly saints?


Old Joe

 2008/12/3 22:29
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7534
Mississippi

 Re: Where are the saints on SI that believe in the 7th day Sabbath

To your original question about who on SI keeps the sabbath.

I have one for you: which day of the week do you call the sabbath? Saturday or Sunday?

FYI, we keep the Lord's Day (in honor of the LORD's resurrection)- which according to the calender is the first day of the week - holy as much as we can, doing no unnecessary work unless there is an emergency.

We do not regard keeping the LORD's Day holy as one that will earn one any brownie points with God, but that it is a day when one refrains from gainful work and just kick back, relax, rest, reflect on the goodness of the LORD, and let the world go by - no shopping,or doing any work around the house. We also attend worship services at the church and sometimes go visiting friends, the sick and whoever or have company over for dinner. We have also learned that if one works hard on the LORD's day the rest of the week becomes a real drag physically, mentally. We learned this when the brotherhood went to assist a churchman whose hog barns were destroyed by a tornado in the wee hours of a Sunday morning. That week was SOOOO long and so tiring - could hardly wait for the LORD's day to come around where we could step back and rest and no one expected anyone to work.

I have noticed something very interesting on my computer desktop. I have several gadgets on it including a calender. On it the first day of the week is Monday!!! So according to it, Sunday is the seventh day!!

Don't know if my answer answers any of your questions...

ginnyrose


_________________
Sandra Miller

 2008/12/3 23:25Profile
Koheleth
Member



Joined: 2005/11/10
Posts: 530
NC

 Re:

Quote:
Yes, God rested on the "Sabbath" (or "7th") day. However, this didn't mean he became lazy. It just means that He stopped creating things (at least, until He created Eve). So what did God do on the 7th day?



Hi ccchhhrrriiisss !

Just a small comment, if you will, on the above. Since Genesis 1 says that God created female on day 6, I take it Eve was created before the 7th day. Also, there is no clear sense anywhere in Scripture that God's creative work continued after day 7. Thanks for your comments.

 2008/12/4 4:58Profile
Koheleth
Member



Joined: 2005/11/10
Posts: 530
NC

 Re:

Quote:
I though this would happen and it did. I decided to leave it in because this is what many have gather from Revelations and also from going to the tomb on the first day of the week and his resurrection. Also the saint's collection was on the first day of the week. It doesn't really matter because everyday is the Lord's Day to me although I do gather with other believers on Sunday morning & evening, also Wednesday evening weekly.



Thanks Robert. I appreciate what you offer here. I think a lot of this discussion is summed up when you say "everyday is the Lord's Day to me". My comments are not specifically for Robert, by the way. The original poster is talking about the 7th day Sabbath and others are also talking about what the Lord's day means "to me". We need to be more clear if we are going to agree on the subject.

I also wanted to ask why the original poster is getting a debate on the Sabbath when he asked for responses from those who held to the 7th day Sabbath? Is it unchristian to hold to the Sabbath? I think we should leave his request in peace. Jesus said, "Peace be unto you."

 2008/12/4 5:03Profile
Koheleth
Member



Joined: 2005/11/10
Posts: 530
NC

 Re:

Quote:
What I don't understand, brother, is why you begin a thread that you already know is going to be controversial... and then tell everyone it's not up for discussion... and then it turns into a long discussion anyway...



Yeah, I just posted the same idea, but what I don't understand is why the OP cannot ask a question without it having to be turned into controversy by those who reply. He did not ask for a debate. I would say if there is a subject that is not clearly spoken against in Scripture that turns into a controversy, it does not speak well of those who respond. Nowhere in the New Testament does it speak against keeping the Sabbath.

 2008/12/4 5:07Profile
Koheleth
Member



Joined: 2005/11/10
Posts: 530
NC

 Re:

Quote:
No one prevented anyone from responding. I dont fully understand yet where Blaze is coming from, but for most folks when they hear "sabbath keeping" they hear heresy... and in most cases, thats true. If someone came here looking to meet and fellowship with those who teach there is no Trinity, or those who love Prosperity teaching... should we just ignore that to?



I don't understand why you insist on lumping clear heresies in with what Romans 14 clearly allows as a preference. I think you need to permit believers the peace to engage in whatever the Scriptures permit, unless you are pushing something extra-Biblical.

 2008/12/4 5:11Profile
Koheleth
Member



Joined: 2005/11/10
Posts: 530
NC

 Re:

Hi ginny. Just a few comments, if I may.

Quote:
I have one for you: which day of the week do you call the sabbath? Saturday or Sunday?



The Bible always calls the Sabbath "Saturday" (Friday evening to Saturday evening).

Quote:
FYI, we keep the Lord's Day (in honor of the LORD's resurrection)- which according to the calender is the first day of the week - holy as much as we can, doing no unnecessary work unless there is an emergency.



Go by the Bible, not by the calendar.

It sounds like for you, Sunday is a sabbath where you do no work. Very similar to the recommended practice of the old covenant. Most believers today do this.

Quote:
I have noticed something very interesting on my computer desktop. I have several gadgets on it including a calender. On it the first day of the week is Monday!!! So according to it, Sunday is the seventh day!!



That is a secular, recent trend. The first day of the week has always been Sunday, including in the gospels.

 2008/12/4 5:22Profile
HeartSong
Member



Joined: 2006/9/13
Posts: 3179


 Re:

For what it is worth, being confused by all of the rules and interpretations associated with the Sabbath, I prayed and asked the Lord to show me His will in the matter. He made it clear that it is to be a day of rest - a day of resting in Him.

If you want to know if something that you intend to do is acceptable, just ask Him - but don't be surprised if your television breaks, or the dog chews up your favorite golfing shoes. If you really don't want to know, don't ask.

So often we miss His will because we are set upon that which we want to do - that which we think will be more enjoyable. But our Lord is the author and creator of true pleasure - pleasure that can only be found in Him by doing things His way.

We miss many blessings by disregarding His Word in the matter.

 2008/12/4 6:27Profile
CJaKfOrEsT
Member



Joined: 2004/3/31
Posts: 901
Melbourne, Australia

 Re:

Quote:

KrispyKrittr wrote:

Mainly because this is a public forum, and the exchange of thoughts, ideas & opinios is what we do here.



Krispy,

I realise that this is a public forum, and no one has prevented anyone for responding, but where does courtesy come in? Our brother clarified that he wasn't an SDA, just that he observed the Sabbath, he has not once implied that the Sabbath is a fellowship breaker, and he requested that this not become a debate about the Sabbath.

You and I have been around long enough to see this kind of thing go on before, and people have respected the thread starter's wishes, and began another thread. For instance, there have been many who have asked for others involved a house church (intentionally choosing the topic to incite empathy :-P), requesting that it not become a debate, and those who have been wary of the topic have come away seeing that it is not in fact heretical to avoid Institutional Churches on a Sunday, and that the key point of fellowship is community and the love of the brethren.

Having said all that, this discussion has gone surprisingly well, but if BlazedbyGod was the type that tends toward defensiveness (which is something both you and I have been guilty of in the past), this all could have gotten ugly in a hurry. The mere throwing around of the word "heresy" has made me cringe as I read though this. I have been in situations where taken issue to guys like Ray Comfort and Paris Reidhead expressing the need to help sinners see their sinfulness before presenting grace, and called it "legalism", again using the "H" word, understandably disturbing me also.

Quote:
[b]I dont fully understand yet where Blaze is coming from[/b], but for most folks when they hear "sabbath keeping" they hear heresy... and in most cases, thats true.

If someone came here looking to meet and fellowship with those who teach [b]there is no Trinity[/b], or those who [b]love Prosperity teaching[/b]... should we just ignore that to?


Brother, if you "fully understand yet where Blaze is coming from", then why are you comparing what he is talking about to denying the Trinity and Prosperity teaching? Again, if you listen to enough of Art Katz' teaching, you'll come across the importance of the Sabbath. Had I the time, and the patience, I would dissect each of the proof texts presented, and show how Paul seems to be saying that the one who is "free" from keeping "special days" should not judge the one who does keep them. Having said all that, it is far easier to defend the theory that he was referring to the the feasts and festivals, and not the seventh day. In other words, the "sabbaths" as opposed to the "Sabbath".

Consider only the fact that Sabbath observance was instituted in the Garden, predating the Law. Moses in the Ten Commandment didn't say to "keep the Sabbath", but to "[b]remember[/b] the Sabbath and keep it holy", as if it was always a requirement, being highlighted by God's Law. Consider also that Christ said that not "one jot nor tittle" shall pass away from the Law, because he came to fulfill it.

Fact is, there is more Scriptural support for Sabbath observance than taking a "piece of bread" and a "sip of wine" and calling it Communion, and yet who hear is willing to call that heresy. Historically, the separation from the "seventh day" was one of the things introduced by Constantine and the by product of his effect on Christendom, along with Easter never falling on the same time as the Jewish Passover, regardless of the moon phase, and Christmas being celebrated on the day of the Roman winter solstice feast. Again, no accusations of heresy toward those celebrating Easter and Christmas, regardless of our view of the Catholic Mass.

I am far from suggesting that we ignore heresy, only that we avoid using our theological preferences to measure such a thing.

Having said all that, I still love ya, bro (my fellow KJV reading, outta-church-home-fellowship-er).

8-)


_________________
Aaron Ireland

 2008/12/4 9:19Profile





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