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murrcolr
Member



Joined: 2007/4/25
Posts: 1839
Scotland, UK

 Re:

Quote:

rbanks wrote:

I would love to experience God's Spirit again like I did at that time but I am so thankful that I know God can do anything in our life if we surrender to Him.



What a wonderful testimony rbanks give thanks to the God of gods! For His mercy endures forever.

I have attached a link to a online book wriiten by the Unknown Christian. I am finding that I am become so aware of my unworthiness. I don't really like being like this but that is how I feel but along with that awareness God in his mercy is showing me there is a way through Jesus to set me free. I believe we must all experience Wo, Low, Go as Lenorad Ravenhill preached.

Woe is me for I am unclean
Lo the Lord will make you clean and burn away all chaff from your life
Go we must tell of our own experiences with the Lord to encourage others to have an encounter with the Living Christ.

My desire is to know God in a deeper way and get to a stage of living in revival all the time, not just walking close to God for a season then being far off because of my sinfullness. I know God has more for us he wants to clean us up so we are vessels fit for his use and in that book you'll find some truths that you don't hear anyone preaching about today.

I hope it helps you to a closer walk with God.
[url=http://www.bibleteacher.org/VictoriousLife.htm]Victorious Life[/url]


_________________
Colin Murray

 2008/12/1 17:32Profile
PaulWest
Member



Joined: 2006/6/28
Posts: 3405
Dallas, Texas

 Re:

Quote:
Your description of how the Pentecostal Churches today go about their initiation of the baptism of the holy Ghost was most discouraging. If I were a new believer reading this I would want nothing to do with any of the spiritual workings of God, lest I'd be deceived.


I realize your concern, and yes, what I described is most discouraging. However, my hope is not that it would discourage a believer from having anything to do with the "spiritual workings of God", but that it would instead discourage a believer from seeking supernatural manifestations of God in today's typical charismatic setting; furthermore, when I think of the spiritual workings of God (as you put it), I am actually inclined to think more of fruit than gifts. Genuine fruit is more excellent, and certainly more demonstrative of God's true "spiritual working" in the life of a believer than anything else...including supernatural gifts, which are not partial and can (and often do) flow through the most ungodly of vessels.

In just about every case that I know of, believers abounding in fruit automatically abound in gifts - gifts of helps, governments, tongues, healings. The difference here is that the gifts exhibited by fruit-bearing believers do not strut or need emotional music to kick-start a service. I am 100% opposed to today's charismatic agenda of just "come forward and get baptized in the Holy Spirit if you want to" with the obligatory tongues to seal the deal. I've seen enough of it; heard enough testimonies, and observed the final product of the majority of these ostensible baptisms, and in the end almost all of the recipients have nothing but a testimony of how they spoke in tongues and just felt God's awesome presence all around them.

I always ask them: "How do you know it was God's presense you felt and not a soulish euphoria?" and they can tell me nothing more but circular reasoning. Mind you, if the genuine fruit of the Spirit followed - with an increased appetite for God's Word and prayer and a sobriety and fearless burden to proclaim the gospel - I would not have to ask this question, but as a youth pastor I beheld these baptisms taking place on many occasions...and afterwards only to see the kids go back to their XBoX video games and cliques and gossip and unholy dating. How can this be? What we see brethren is wholesale deception going on right before our eyes, and with ministers (often without the genuine baptism themselves) telling these kids that they're baptized in the Holy Ghost and congratulating them.

The kids that [i]do[/i] get genuinely filled with the Spirit go in the opposite direction, and I will readily admit that a kid can get filled at one of these meetings, but such is the exception and not the rule. In fact, most people I've talked to (and many on this site) have been filled with Spirit while alone, communing with God or reading the Bible or during a period of quiet prayer time...sometimes with tongues, sometimes without. God then sends people your way and the gifts just happen - sometimes the gifts of healing, sometimes helps; sometimes governments, sometimes tongues. It's spontaneous, not at all premeditated or worked-up or planned out.

Brother Paul


_________________
Paul Frederick West

 2008/12/1 18:05Profile
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

I always cause a stir at Church or when I was in Bible College, and recall when I was baptized in the Holy Spirit. For I always say, "I don't recall if I spoke in tongues or not that night." Like others here, I was filled with the Holy Spirit while seaking the Lord in the quietness of my bedroom. I was simply seeking the Lord, desiring to have more of Him in my life, and all of a sudden, my room was filled with His holy presence. I had not sensed God's Spirit like this since the first time I heard the gospel preached. I was just overwhelmed with God's presence, and just poured out my heart to Him. I know while pouring out my heart to Him, I gave some sort of groaning like sensations, and I think I said some things that were unintelligbile. I don't know if I spoke in tongues or not. Honestly, I was more aware of God's presence than what I was or was not doing.

Of course, the "tension" this testimony goes away when I'm pressed to confess that I have since prayed in tongues from to time, and have even given a tongue or two in public assembly that was interpreted.

Personally, I preach and teach that any genuine demonstration of God's power constitutes "evidence" of being baptized in the Holy Spirit. Shortly after being baptized in the Spirit, I sought out water baptism, and began to preach in the streets, teach when amongst brethren, and occassional give a prophetic utterance during church service (often to the disdain of my then pastor who did not like me interupting his perfectly timed/orchestrated services, especially if the message was negative). Since then I have continually felt this Divine "urging" to minister whatever things the Lord may put upon my heart at any given time.

To my own shame though, I must say that my character has not always lived up to my charismata. I feel an utter sense of unworthiness when God manifests one of His most precious gifts through me. For I am not always, as Katz would say, "the thing in itself." But the gifts are what they are-- extensions of God's grace. His gifts are truly gracious, for even if we aren't quite up to snuff, He can still choose to move through us in a mighty way. I'm reminded of Christ's words, "For there is no one who will perform a miracle in My name, and be able soon afterward to speak evil of Me." (Mark 9:39). It can be a truly humbling thing to be used of God in His service.


_________________
Jimmy H

 2008/12/1 18:58Profile
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re: Humility

For the record ... I haven't.

In many of the previous discussions on this have made mention of my more pronounced, poor experience, a very forced, poorly timed (During a special service right after 911), the manipulation and coaching - My sheer grief and anguish, that I refused to go along with it all ... no interpretations, a babbling of nonsensical utterance - that it became the last straw, never to darken the doors there again.

I would be in complete agreement with many here, neither denouncing that which is authentic nor supporting the extremities, that are so much more prevalent.

Really, I didn't even want to say this much, what I did want to express was towards you murrcolr. Dear brother I do not know how to articulate this without the wondering of how it sounds to anyones ears, realizing we only get sometimes the smallest snapshot of each other here but brother ... You have changed.
And it is wonderful.

There is something hard to grasp I think for some of us, I pray you find the bitter-sweetness in feeling\being worthless. The first be last and the last first - All those things the Lord spoke of, such a seeming paradox. Man am I halting and hesitating here, far more than what I want to say ... I will go out on a limb and suppose you are not much more fond of encouragement for encouragements sake, that thing we sometimes feel compelled to do to each other to somehow 'cheer' them up, than I am. Nor do I want to start preaching ... I hope you find your self even more aware, I am as well - more and more - More regretful, more conscious of lack, more aware of my irritability - lack of patience .. It is a strange sweet humbling matter. I pray the Lord will draw closer to you through this brother and I believe He most certainly will. Thanks for encouraging me by your example.


_________________
Mike Balog

 2008/12/1 22:58Profile









 Re:

Brother Paul wrote:

Quote:
What we see brethren is wholesale deception going on right before our eyes, and with ministers (often without the genuine baptism themselves) telling these kids that they're baptized in the Holy Ghost and congratulating them.

I agree wholeheartedly. I too have seen this and it sickens me. I like what you wrote about the variety of ways God does things and He is not always doing the same things like as if we were on some assembly line. He works on us differently, each person is unique and yet not violating His word, because each one of us are different!

I am sure that Azusa Street and many other beginnings were nothing like what we have today. I remember reading Frank Bartleman's book, "Azusa Street" and he explains that they were so wanting God to be completely 100% in this that they didn't tolerate any flesh whatsoever. There were times that they had to escort religious rabble rouser's to the door. They wanted the Holy Spirit to move the service in whatever direction He desired. Can you imagine what kind of mind set those people had in those days? I think it would frighten us, I think it would cause us to stand up and walk straight, I know it would make the hair of my head to stand to be around sold out men and women.

I was surrounded by the fluff of Pentecostalism. However, in all that the New Testament consists of, the gifts of the Spirit, the Fruit of the Spirit, the five fold ministry, I believe should be existing in our midst today.

Thank you for your comments.

 2008/12/2 17:47









 Re:

King Jimmy wrote:

Quote:
I always cause a stir at Church or when I was in Bible College, and recall when I was baptized in the Holy Spirit. For I always say, "I don't recall if I spoke in tongues or not that night."

My Mother who is not into the hype of Pentecostalism was baptized in the holy Spirit in a revival service back in the early 60's, she doesn't remember if she spoke in tongues because she fell "under the power", meaning the power was so dynamic she passed out, CLUNK!! But she knew she was filled and to this day will tell you that she did, but she can't remember if she spoke in tongues. She probably did, however, she doesn't have the gift of tongues.

This is where the problem starts, people are put under so much pressure to speak in tongues that they will utter any nonsensical gibberish to satisfy the ones who are trying to make them a two fold child of hell like themselves. Sincere people are walking away from these places believing they have the promise of the holy Spirit.

I am for the speaking in tongues, but I am not for the hype.

 2008/12/2 18:01
narrowpath
Member



Joined: 2005/1/9
Posts: 1522
Germany NRW

 Re: Who on Sermon Index speaks in Tounges

I do.

 2008/12/2 18:06Profile
PaulWest
Member



Joined: 2006/6/28
Posts: 3405
Dallas, Texas

 Re:

Quote:
Dear brother I do not know how to articulate this without the wondering of how it sounds to anyones ears, realizing we only get sometimes the smallest snapshot of each other here but brother ... You have changed.


Yes, dear brother, I have noticed as well. It is truly wonderful. I give thanks to God for His wonders - and it also preaches to me and brings the ball back into my own court to follow his example.

I bless God for His grace and wisdom that transcends human thought. The Lord continue to bless you, Murrcolr, and grant you wisdom, peace and a greater knowledge of His amazing grace.

Brother Paul


_________________
Paul Frederick West

 2008/12/2 20:05Profile
murrcolr
Member



Joined: 2007/4/25
Posts: 1839
Scotland, UK

 Re:

One of the meanings I found for Hype is:- Something deliberately misleading; a deception.

Unfortunalty all the hype has diluted and downgraded the things of God until they have become a byword a thing to be mocked and to made fun off.

God has no option but to clean house and it will start with his own people and the ones we call Pastors. A lot of Pastors have over stepped the mark and have taken an authority they should never have taken on, they are the ones that have went along with the Hype and sold it to God's people, they are the ones who have chased after false fire and tried to build there own Kingdoms instead of working for Kingdom of Lord Jesus Christ.

This has led to the down grading of the things of God there is no Holiness today. Holiness is not about how loud or long we pray, Holiness is not about the way we dress, how often we read the bible. We can do all those things and still be in a mess going to hell and don't even know it.

Paul said in 1Cor 13:1 If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am become sounding brass, or a clanging cymbal.

So does he mean here that you can speak in tounges and have not love, I think he does. I ask you as I ask myself do you speak in tounges and have not love.

My honest answer to the question is that I do love to a degree but not fully. Know if you hold that statement of mine up to scripture you'll see that I fail miserably.

Matt 22:37-40 And he said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the great and first commandment. And a second like unto it is this, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. On these two commandments the whole law hangeth, and the prophets.

That is where I need to start, because on that two commandments the whole law hangs. I ask myself why don't I love God with all my heart why do I not love people as I love my self.

Why because of the sin in me. A born again, bible believing Christian who is filled with the Holy Spirit and talks in tounges has still sin in him. I am not pure, I am not clean, I am not Holy.

Do not get me wrong God met me powerfully, I am not the same person I was but there is a need in my life to meet God in a deeper way.

If we are ever going to see a True Move of God we as a body of believers must humble ourselves before God and turn from our wicked ways. If we do this God will hear from heaven and will forgive us of our sins.

2Chr 7:1 Now when Solomon had made an end of praying, the fire came down from heaven, and consumed the burnt-offering and the sacrifices; and the glory of Jehovah filled the house.

The Glory of Jehovah filled the house this is what needs to be restored into the church today.

When God Glory fills the church the Fear of the Lord will replace the mocking and slander that has been so evident.

But it must start first with each of us being honest about the condition of our own hearts.

Do you love God with all your heart?


_________________
Colin Murray

 2008/12/3 18:10Profile
MJones
Member



Joined: 2008/10/31
Posts: 320
Missouri

 Re:

Quote:

DeepThinker wrote:
I like what you wrote about the variety of ways God does things and He is not always doing the same things like as if we were on some assembly line. He works on us differently, each person is unique and yet not violating His word, because each one of us are different!




If I knew how to quote more than one person at a time I would certainly do it here. I have especially liked Paul West's and Mike Balogs's last replys. In most cases, I don't like long posts, but I found myself not wanting Mike's to end. He has a spirit about him that I can relate to.

Though I have not read every post, I read enough to get an impression that they were a little touchy at first. It seems now, that most of the rough edges have been knocked off.

I especially liked the way DeepThinker worded what was originally stated by Paul West. If there is one thing to learn about God from creation, is His increadible appetite for variety. We seem to have difficulty making the jump to the same with His people.

I am very turned off when a church thinks they have the way. Personally, I think the different churches, in a twisted sortof way, are God's gift to us that we might have the variety. It is ashame that we can't have it in one, but that may be changing.

For too many years, man in the absence of the power of God, has resorted to professionalism. As a result, we have a church full of people who give themselves endlessly to everything but God.

5 years ago, burnt out on it all, and knowing there was more, I began seeking God for myself. My time with Him has become the highlight of my day. Though I do not speak in tongues, and frankly, have no desire to, I am full of God. He is my passion. I feel as if I have cleared a path to Him, and now desire to help others to find Him as I have.

When you find God like this, your nature changes. When you are full of God, it dispells other cravings. God begins to use you in ways you don't even plan for. I have found myself in more one on one conversations about God in the past year, than I think I've had in the previous 30 as a Christian.

What I have discovered is that if we seek anything but God, we are sidetracked. Seek to speak in tonges, seek ministry, seek recognition; it is all a distraction from the best we can have with God. If you are truly seeking God, the way He deserves to be sought, these other things will come in time. In our seeking of only Him, He will give us these things as it pleases Him to do so.

In regard to seeking ministry, recognition, etc., I've been there and done that. So if some may think I'm a little over the top, that's okay. When you finally come to the end of yourself, you will find the same thing. He is the only thing that is worth our pursuit. When we seek other things, we are simply sidetracked from the most important pursuit we could ever be enguaged in.

The result of this pursuit will be God inspired and initiated ministry. It will go forth with the power, love, compassion and grace of God. The ministry is the tip of the iceburg supported by a tremendous base of time with God that isn't seen. It is the opposite of what is so plentiful in today's churches. The ice burg is turned up side down; ministry is the big base supported by a little tip of time with God.

It is fine to speak in tongues if it is something that God initiated and not man. It is fine to not speak in tongues. The one thing that is a must though, is that we are full of God, and the one really not dependent on the other. I am full of God and do not. Someone is full of God and does. Just be full of God; the rest will take care of itself.


_________________
Mike Jones

 2008/12/3 19:42Profile





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