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AbideinHim
Member



Joined: 2006/11/26
Posts: 3541
Louisiana

 Re:

To Logic and Ben,

The only thing that you have proved by your posts is that you are carnally minded and do not receive the things of the Spirit of God.

Matthew Henry said it well:

"The pride of carnal reasoning is really as much opposed to spirituality, as the basest sensuality."


But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? but we have the mind of Christ.
(2Corinthians 2:10-16).

"The natural man, the wise man of the world, receives not the things of the Spirit of God. The pride of carnal reasoning is really as much opposed to spirituality, as the basest sensuality. The sanctified mind discerns the real beauties of holiness, but the power of discerning and judging about common and natural things is not lost. But the carnal man is a stranger to the principles, and pleasures, and actings of the Divine life. The spiritual man only, is the person to whom God gives the knowledge of his will. How little have any known of the mind of God by natural power! And the apostles were enabled by his Spirit to make known his mind. In the Holy Scriptures, the mind of Christ, and the mind of God in Christ, are fully made known to us. It is the great privilege of Christians, that they have the mind of Christ revealed to them by his Spirit. They experience his sanctifying power in their hearts, and bring forth good fruits in their lives." (Matthew Henry)





_________________
Mike

 2008/11/26 16:29Profile
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re:

The irony ...

Recall;

Quote:
Does anyone believe they can show me directly from scripture and reasoning




"You fool. How ignorant and arrogant can you be?"

My words, then meant as nothing other than an experiment to guage your reaction.

Now I mean them. You are showing yourself incredibly arrogant, smarmy, pompous, haughty and proud. Shall you bury everyone with response, continue to pour your thoughts into others intentions, turn things around so that they say what you want them to say ...

Unbelieveable the audacity. Both you and 'Logic'. [i]If[/i] this whole notion had as much truth as you seem to think it contains it would never need this level of defense. You would be able to walk away knowing that you had something over the great course of Orthodox Christian History, something that somehow evaded everyone. But your actions and attitudes prove otherwise.

You are proving the point exactly just what these 'natures' are made up of ...

[i]From whence come wars and fightings among you? come they not hence, even of your lusts that war in your members? Ye lust, and have not: ye kill, and desire to have, and cannot obtain: ye fight and war, yet ye have not, because ye ask not. Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts. Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God. Do ye think that the scripture saith in vain, The spirit that dwelleth in us lusteth to envy?[/i] Jas 4:1-5


[i]As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated. What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid. For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth. Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth. Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?

Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: [/i] Rom 9:13-22


_________________
Mike Balog

 2008/11/26 16:49Profile
Logic
Member



Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re:

Quote:

roaringlamb wrote:
Quote:
I have already proven that Adam was the same as all mankind are today.



How in the world do you come to this conclusion?

Okay, I'll post it again.
[b]1John 2:16[/b] [color=990000]For all that is in the world,[/color]
[b]1:[/b] [color=990000]the lust of the flesh[/color]
[b]2:[/b] [color=990000]the lust of the eyes[/color]
[b]3:[/b] [color=990000]the pride of life,
is not of the Father, but is of the world.[/color]
[b]Gen 3:6[/b] [color=990000]And when the woman saw that the tree was[/color]
[b]1:[/b] [color=990000]good for food,
and that it was[/color]
[b]2:[/b] [color=990000]pleasant to the eyes.
and a tree to be[/color]
[b]3:[/b] [color=990000]desired to make one wise
she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.[/color]

Adam sinned the very same reason that we do, because of his flesh.

Quote:
Gen 2:17 but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die."

If Adam was already going to die as you propose, then why did God warn him about an action that would bring death, or as the Hebrew says, "dying you shall die"?

Well probably God was saying that he will take the privelige to eat of the Tree of Life away.
[b]Rev 22:14[/b] [color=990000]Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.[/color]
Adam did not do God's command, therefore He lost the right to the tree of life.

Quote:
Consider these two verses and tell me what event took place that produced a change in how Adam and Eve were with one another-

Gen 2:25 And the man and his wife were both naked and were not ashamed.

Gen 3:7 Then the eyes of both were opened, and they knew that they were naked. And they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves loincloths.

Why were they suddenly ashamed to be "naked" in front of one another?

Because they knew that they disobeyed.
Furthermore it wasn't to hide from each other but from God.

Quote:
Also why is it that not until after the sin of Adam there is no mention of a curse or any ill effects upon Adam, Eve, and their descendants?

Why was there a Tree of Life that would let Ada & Eve live forever if they already could?

Quote:
Last of all, how come there are no "perfect" people that we can observe today if all men are born like Adam?

What do you mean "perfect"?

Quote:
Quote:
It doesn't say that physical death is a punishment.

Actually yes it does, and that is the point the Hebrew brings out.


Death in the Bible is always pictured as a separation between two things.


[b]Eccl 12:7[/b] [color=990000]then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.[/color]
[b]James 2:26[/b] [color=990000]as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.[/color]

Spiritual death - Man from God - [b]Isa 59:2[/b] [color=990000]But your iniquities have [b]separated you between and your God[/b], and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.[/color]

[b]Gen 3:22[/b] [color=990000]Behold, the man was as one of Us,[/color] [he is] [color=990000]knowing good and evil now.[/color]
For fear that he stretch out his hand and take of the tree of life and eat to live forever,
[b]:23[/b] the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from which he was taken.

Notice that Adam could have lived forever if he ate from the Tree of Life, for that is it's purpose.

Adam was separated from God the Father after he disobeyed; it took Jesus who Adam walked with in the cool of the day to make coats of skin for renewal of the realtionship with the Father.

After that, Ada was restored to spiritual life again, but still no way to the Tree of Life.

 2008/11/26 17:45Profile
Logic
Member



Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re:

Quote:

AbideinHim wrote:
To Logic and Ben,

The only thing that you have proved by your posts is that you are carnally minded and do not receive the things of the Spirit of God.

Back at you.

 2008/11/26 17:49Profile
Friedrick
Member



Joined: 2004/8/19
Posts: 112
Nicaragua

 Re:

Quote:

Logic wrote:
Quote:

AbideinHim wrote:
To Logic and Ben,

The only thing that you have proved by your posts is that you are carnally minded and do not receive the things of the Spirit of God.

Back at you.



If we cannot humble ourselves in the way we post, then I suggest this thread be terminated. This has gone far beyond unfruitfulness, but it is bearing rotten, black, smelly fruit.


_________________
Joshua

 2008/11/26 18:55Profile









 Re:

it's ok, they're not just throwing insults
man sharpens man like iron
if someone needs to tap out they can tap out
i don't think people are trying to cause psychological damage at this point :)

 2008/11/26 19:24
Logic
Member



Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re:

Quote:
Friedrick wrote:
Quote:
Logic wrote:
Quote:

AbideinHim wrote:
To Logic and Ben,

The only thing that you have proved by your posts is that you are carnally minded and do not receive the things of the Spirit of God.

Back at you.

If we cannot humble ourselves in the way we post, then I suggest this thread be terminated. This has gone far beyond unfruitfulness, but it is bearing rotten, black, smelly fruit.

My point was that your assuming that your right with out proofe except that which is commonly argued as the truth.
You must first prove that it is true by debunking Ben's and my arguments.

Since Adam sinned for the same reason that we all do today, why do we need a "sin nature" for the reason that we sin?
Adam was restored back to God, so why would you think that his sin or guilt was passed to anyone?

Sin is not genetic, inheritable, or passed on by birth.

Sin nature is unreasonable.
It puts the blaim on God and frees man of any responcability.
For who can go against their nature which God has given them brom birth.
Adam did not give this so called nature, because God must have made the law to pass on natures of sin.
Tell me why would God create mankind with a nature that He hates?

Why would God allow a nature to be passed through humanity which would be contrary to His?

In order for sin nature to be real, God has to be fully responcible for it.
Who else is the creator of natures?

Who is the One to make it so that sin can chang one's nature?

Who is the One to make it so that sin nature is passed down to offspring?

Why wouldn't God grant the ability to perform that which He commands?
To not would be tyrannical

For God to command something wich He know we can't do;
& you want to be a godly father, you must start commanding your children the impossible & punish them for disobedience.
Or even a godly employer.
you must start commanding your employees the impossible & demerit them for disobedience.

The logical conclusion is that God command the impossible and condemns some for not complying.
This is wicked.
Also:
God would be directly responsible for mankind not obeying because He hasn't given them the ability.
Also:
God would be condemning for which He alone is responsible for.

If you can get around these logicaly and reasonably and show these to be logical conclusions to be true, and the rediculousness to be not rediculous, then I will reconcider.

 2008/11/26 19:51Profile
Logic
Member



Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re:

Quote:
TaylorOtwell wrote:
Quote:
Why wouldn't God grant the ability to perform that which He commands? To not would be tyrannical

Logic,

Again, I have already pointed out to you instances where God commands the impossible and does not grant the ability.

No, you shown me your understanding of the things.

Quote:
The Lord commanded the Israelites to keep the entire law perfectly; however, Paul states nobody can be justified by the law, which means it must be impossible to keep it perfectly.

Jesus prooved it could be done.

Quote:
The very fact that it was command, yet impossible, and that we do not have the ability to keep it perfectly is the why Paul cites it as our schoolmaster to bring us to Christ, and not a means of justification, in Galatians.

No, the law was added because of transgressions Gal 3:19
The law was given for the reason of making unlawful affections to be evidently unlawful.
We do not know how to be good or do good without Christ to show us by His Spirit. The Law made that fact evident within us.

In other words, the Law exists so that our unlawful affections would be evidently more wicked in contrast to the specific commandments(Romans 7:13).

The fact the law revealed our sinns, we should be convicted of the judgment. The jusgment is to bring us to Christ as our advocate to Father.

[b]If we couldn't keep the law, we would be innocent for not complying with it.[/b]

 2008/11/26 20:05Profile
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3707
Ca.

 Re:

Quote: Logic wrote.

"""The logical conclusion is that God command the impossible and condemns some for not complying.
This is wicked."""


The logical conclusion is that God commands the impossible and then makes the impossible available in Christ, who He has to kill to make the impossible for man possible by The Glory and Goodness of God in Love. Man could, will and and would not be able to, being a created being, attain by his own self, to reach the glory of God which is in Christ Jesus. God proves His plan for man to be God natured and not a creation natured being, who could not attain without Christ in the believer, a being that contained The Father's nature, by giving His Son for and in us that we could be son's of God and attain to heaven and be in the Family of God Himself and live in His House. This was His plan before He created the world as we know it and Adam and Eve also. God proves His plan was perfect and He is justified in making a created son, a birthed son by His only begotted Son birthed in the created beings of His choice. The rest, the created sons', He gives to a created being, Satan, that they might not feel out of place with those that are birthed son's.. They believe satan still and know nothing else they will live with him forever, as we will live with the Father that gives us birth in His Son, Jesus Christ. We are here for one reason, to reconcile those that are birthed by the Father to understand who He is and how much He loves them and what He did to get them birthed in the Son.

Ephesians 1:3-14 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved. In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace; Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence; Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself: That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him: In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

In Christ: Phillip


_________________
Phillip

 2008/11/26 20:51Profile
Logic
Member



Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re:

Quote:
Christinyou wrote:
Quote:
Logic wrote:
The logical conclusion is that God command the impossible and condemns some for not complying.

The logical conclusion is that God commands the impossible and then makes the impossible available in Christ,

Yah, then you say that He only give the ability to choose Christ to only the "elect.

You still have a horrable god.

 2008/11/26 21:29Profile





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