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Discussion Forum : Articles and Sermons : America Asks For A King

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ccchhhrrriiisss
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Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4779


 Re:

Hi rookie...

Quote:
The US spends $10,000,000,000.00 per month in sustaining the two wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. Just think about all the material, fuel, equipment, rations, electricity, wages, bribes, and medical care that is dispensed in that month.

Now add that amount for 9 months straight. Again imagine all that $90,000,000,000.00 buys in sweat and tears.

The flaw in your argument is that you seem to be ignorant or unaware where all of the money is going. You make it sound like the bulk of that money is being spent on evil. Yet most of that money is being spent on a rebuilding program in Iraq. Not only is the US rebuilding the infrastructure of Iraq and Afghanistan, they are funding a democratic government at the same time.

Even the money spent in armed conflict is not being spent on agression. It is being spent on defense of the fledging government from the hands of militant Islamic terrorists who wish to impose their radical views upon all -- regardless of consent. The new Iraqi government is elected by the people. Ironically, a recent poll of the Iraqi people found that they think more highly of the peacekeeping efforts of the United States and its partners (btw, the actual "war" is over, and firepower is only used now to protect the people of Iraq) now than cynical liberals, isolationists or antiwar activists who voice their cynicism in public.

The last estimate that I read in a foreign policy journal showed that the bulk of the funding for the mission in Iraq was being spent on rebuilding the nation while protecting the newly elected government from the ever-shrinking terrorist insurgents.

...just something to think about.


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Christopher

 2008/11/4 1:25Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4821
Savannah TN

 Re:

Lev. 25:9 Then you shall cause the trumpet of the Jubilee to sound on the tenth day of the seventh month; on the Day of Atonement you shall make the trumpet to sound throughout all your land. 10 And you shall consecrate the fiftieth year, and proclaim liberty throughout all the land to all its inhabitants. It shall be a Jubilee for you; and each of you shall return to his possession, and each of you shall return to his family. 11 That fiftieth year shall be a Jubilee to you; in it you shall neither sow nor reap what grows of its own accord, nor gather the grapes of your untended vine. 12 For it is the Jubilee; it shall be holy to you; you shall eat its produce from the field.



Is God's law immoral when His word calls for a "spreading of the wealth?"

Beware of the vain philosophies of men, and the lie of Satan. Those who choose to remain simple will be tossed to and fro by these men...

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2008/11/4 6:08Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4821
Savannah TN

 Re:

rbanks cited Scripture which speaks of the poor in different light.

Yes there is a distinction made by Scripture. The Scripture teaches why some become poor because of not doing what Scripture calls one to do. And Scripture teaches about the poor who are of a clean heart. But Scripture also teaches about a third type of poor. This following Scripture points to this group and their lot in life...


Eccl. 5:8 If you see the oppression of the poor, and the violent perversion of justice and righteousness in a province, do not marvel at the matter; for high official watches over high official, and higher officials are over them.


It is this circumstance on which this thread is focused on. The article speaks about the immorality of leaders who promote the "spreading of wealth." On this notion I chose to respond.

We live in a time where our leaders have brought about "violent perversion of justice and righteousness" on the oppressed "poor."

The princes of our nation have created a entire "economy" based on "usury and extortion." The "poor" of the world are suffering under this oppression. The poor of India and China make toys for our children. The poor of Mexico make light switches for our homes. Why are we, the people of this nation, not manufacturing the things that we need?

Those who are the "high officials" have allowed this to happen. They have created "financial gimmicks" to oppress the poor and grind their faces into dust. And now these "high officials" don't know how to fix what they have broke.

These are the people that James wrote about...
James 5:1 Come now, you rich, weep and howl for your miseries that are coming upon you! 2 Your riches are corrupted, and your garments are moth-eaten. 3 Your gold and silver are corroded, and their corrosion will be a witness against you and will eat your flesh like fire. You have heaped up treasure in the last days. 4 Indeed the wages of the laborers who mowed your fields, which you kept back by fraud, cry out; and the cries of the reapers have reached the ears of the Lord of Sabaoth. 5 You have lived on the earth in pleasure and luxury; you have fattened your hearts as in a day of slaughter. 6 You have condemned, you have murdered the just; he does not resist you.


God Bless
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2008/11/4 7:05Profile
rookie
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Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4821
Savannah TN

 Re:

Brother Robert mentioned watching the "Century of Self"

Thank you for taking the time to watch this documentary. I have been "pushing" people to "see" how Satan manipulates and destroys the "simple."

I have shown this to groups I lead in bible studies. The reason is to show how the princes of this nation "manipulate" and cause the poor to err into Satan's ways...

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2008/11/4 7:10Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4821
Savannah TN

 Re:

Brother Chris wrote:


Quote:
The flaw in your argument is that you seem to be ignorant or unaware where all of the money is going. You make it sound like the bulk of that money is being spent on evil. Yet most of that money is being spent on a rebuilding program in Iraq. Not only is the US rebuilding the infrastructure of Iraq and Afghanistan, they are funding a democratic government at the same time.




I did not intend to use this event as a means to depict evil. I was responding to another brothers thoughts about the reality of where the money is going.


I used a real life event to compare the costs of the wars against those for the bailout of AIG.

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2008/11/4 7:14Profile
KingJimmy
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Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:


Paul Mazer of Lehman Brothers is quoted as having said, "We must shift America from a 'needs' to a 'desires' culture, people must be trained to desire, to want new things even before the old has been completely consumed . We must shape a new mentality in America, man's desires must overshadow his needs."


What an amazing quote. It reminds me of how Art Katz used to link modern day marketing as a tool of the principalities and powers, due to their influence over culture and their manipulative powers that pull on the strings of fallen humanity. For the principalities and powers rule by their ability to do what many marketers do. Thus, Katz was very weary of anything in "pop" culture that had massive appeal. For something to have massive appeal, as a general rule of thumb, must mean that it was in league with the powers of the air.

For marketers appeal to one's flesh... to one's "sensuality." That sensuality is not necessarily something that is erotic, but rather, the mere over stimulation of the flesh. Sometimes our desire to simply go "window shopping" is merely a feeding of that sensuality. We have to "see" something, and take a strange pleasure in merely doing so.


One is called, "The Century of Self" (BBC) and the other is, "The Merchants of Cool" (PBS). They are real eye openers for those of us that have not lived long enough to watch this all play out over time.


I'll have to check it out. I found on-line link to the show you can watch at: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/cool/ Hopefully they have a DVD available.


Our greatest poverty is our lack of contentment that cultivates an unthankful spirit and robs us of the satisfaction of enjoying what we have- because of our lust for something newer and better.


Amen. My brother in law once worked as a police officer in the "south side" of Statesville, where there is a lot of poverty and crime. He said he had been called out to many situations where upon entering the house of some "poor" individuals, he found folks in these tiny homes with 40 inch plasma screen TV's. Now, that doesn't describe everybody in that area by far. My church frequently helps people in that area that have a hard time making ends meet. However, as was suggested, "the poor among you" in our nation is far less that imagined. Especially when compared to the poor in other countries. Even our homeless population has clothes to wear!


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Jimmy H

 2008/11/4 7:28Profile
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:


Paul Mazer of Lehman Brothers is quoted as having said, "We must shift America from a 'needs' to a 'desires' culture, people must be trained to desire, to want new things even before the old has been completely consumed . We must shape a new mentality in America, man's desires must overshadow his needs."


What's also amazing about this quote, from a banker of all people, is how anti-investment this quote is. In the last few months I have personally studied the world of the financial industry, and advice they give to people to do better for themselves... maybe even make it rich. They suggest being stingy with one's money, and not buying the things one wants, but simply the things one needs. The money they save by doing this, they suggest investing. Jonathan Hoening (founder of CapitalistPig.com), who frequents Fox News made his millions this way. He realized when he was 16 years old and working for Starbucks. He realized that his $4 could go a lot further and return more to him if he invested it in Starbucks than simply buy a Frappucino. By doing such, he was a millionaire by the time he was in his 20's. I imagine this banker that you quote from probably did the same thing. Yet, here he is encouraging society to go in the opposite direction he went. Rather hypocritical don't ya think? But, by doing such, the rich will get richer, and the poor will be poorer.


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Jimmy H

 2008/11/4 7:59Profile
RobertW
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Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
St. Joseph, Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
But, by doing such, the rich will get richer, and the poor will be poorer.



Under our fractional reserve banking system bankers benefit from savings because they can lend out 10X or more what they have on deposit. I think what bankers want is for people to [i]borrow[/i] and then [i]spend[/i]. In this way they can ultimately profit on both the sale of the items and the interest they receive for the loan they gave you to buy those products. A microcosm of this behavior is found at the local furniture and TV rental places that benefit by both a sale and interest. To me it is the epitome of evil because it robs the poor (in a relative sense) of what little they have. Contentment is the antidote for this wretched disease.

[color=000066]And having food and raiment let us be therewith content. But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition. For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows. (I Timothy 6:8-10)[/color]

I'm not sure if there is a stronger warning in scripture about any subject. Consider these words:

1) Erred from the faith
2) Pierced themselves through with 'many' sorrows
3) Fall into temptation and a snare
4) Fall into many foolish and hurtful lusts
5) Drown men in destruction and perdition

You will notice in Luke 3 that John Baptist put the ax at the root when he dealt with each people groups attitude towards their possessions. Mammon was also Judas' vice that ultimately destroyed him. I have often wondered about this passage:

[color=000066]Son of man, say unto the prince of Tyrus, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thine heart is lifted up, and thou hast said, I am a God, I sit in the seat of God, in the midst of the seas; yet thou art a man, and not God, though thou set thine heart as the heart of God: Behold, thou art wiser than Daniel; there is no secret that they can hide from thee: With thy wisdom and with thine understanding thou hast gotten thee riches, and hast gotten gold and silver into thy treasures: [u]By thy great wisdom and by thy traffick hast thou increased thy riches[/u], and thine heart is lifted up because of thy riches: Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thou hast set thine heart as the heart of God; (Ezekiel 28)[/color]


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Robert Wurtz II

 2008/11/4 9:17Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4821
Savannah TN

 Re:

Brother Robert quoted:

Quote:
Son of man, say unto the prince of Tyrus, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thine heart is lifted up, and thou hast said, I am a God, I sit in the seat of God, in the midst of the seas; yet thou art a man, and not God, though thou set thine heart as the heart of God: Behold, thou art wiser than Daniel; there is no secret that they can hide from thee: With thy wisdom and with thine understanding thou hast gotten thee riches, and hast gotten gold and silver into thy treasures: By thy great wisdom and by thy traffick hast thou increased thy riches, and thine heart is lifted up because of thy riches: Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thou hast set thine heart as the heart of God; (Ezekiel 28)



Throughout Scripture we find that there are two families. The Scripture above describes one who has followed his father Satan. The seed of Satan will take on the image of Lucifer that is described in Isaiah. Whether it is the prince of Tyrus or the son of Nebuchadnezzer (sp) we find that the nature and desires of these men's heart have gone in the way of Cain.

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2008/11/4 10:27Profile
RobertW
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Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
St. Joseph, Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
Rookie's: Whether it is the prince of Tyrus or the son of Nebuchadnezzer (sp) we find that the nature and desires of these men's heart have gone in the way of Cain.



So with all of the writings in the New Testament and the revelations of the Old Testament that deal with wealth, why is the focus so strongly on other 'lesser' issues when scripture focuses on Mammon so much? I mean you will hear all kinds of messages but so few that put the ax on the root of the tree and challenge man's material gods.




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Robert Wurtz II

 2008/11/4 10:50Profile





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