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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Does God Predestine Some Men to Hell? (Double Predestination)

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rbanks
Member



Joined: 2008/6/19
Posts: 1257


 Re:

Listen to the scriptures in James 2:19-20 (KJV) 19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

The bible says believing and putting your faith in the Living Christ is two different things. True faith results in action. Jesus said that we could not come to him unless we were drawn by the spirit. The Father is not going to draw us to Christ unless we truly repent and put our trust in Him. The convicting work of the Holy Spirit can be resisted. Stephen told the Pharisee’s that they were resisting the Holy Spirit.

If any man will hear the gospel…believe what Jesus did for them on the cross and that he arose from the dead? If he becomes convicted by the Holy Spirit…believes in the atoning sacrifice of Jesus for his sins, repents and places his faith in the Lord Jesus Christ and is regenerated by the Holy Spirit then God has saved him. He has been elected in Jesus Christ before the foundation of the world. Those in Christ are the elect…those outside of Christ are the non-elect. No one has ever been elected apart from Christ. The bible says all mankind (Jesus represented all mankind) was in Christ when He died on the Cross. The regenerated man (all penitent who place faith in Christ) is raised up with Christ.

The new man is regenerated in Christ and the old man is crucified in Christ. The elected is in relation to Christ and those who believe in Christ. The problem we have is that we try to figure out with our finite understanding. Man can resist the Holy Spirit is a fact of scripture and a man desiring to believe is given grace to accomplish of the Holy Spirit what he can not do of himself and that is a fact from scripture.

It is of vital importance that men hear the gospel in order for faith to be created. Faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the Word of God. There needs to be the powerful preaching of the word that will bring men to conviction. Some receive conviction and some reject it. Most that finally come to conviction and believe unto salvation had at least once resisted the promptings of the Spirit. Sadly there will be those who resist it until it is too late and they will be the non-elect because they rejected Christ…God’s only Son. He is the only way any of us can be elected. God has never elected a person who doesn’t believe and will never damn a person as non-elect who has trusted in Christ completely.

It is not about deciding who the elect are or who the non-elect are…it is about bringing men to the Living Christ and those who come and receive Him as their Lord and Savior are the elect in Christ and those who resist Him completely are the non-elect because God has only predestined only those in his Son, everything else will be in Hell. Everything outside of Christ is predestined to go to hell. It will be all of Christ in heaven. You can wrestle with the doctrines of men to your own destruction and go to hell, or you can trust and in live in Christ to the glory of God.

 2008/10/28 14:34Profile
TaylorOtwell
Member



Joined: 2006/6/19
Posts: 927
Arkansas

 Re:

rbanks,

So, based on your statement that Christ only draws those who are truly penitent, I take it you believe that Paul was truly penitent on the Damascus road, and that is why Christ appeared to Him and called Paul to Himself?

Christ draws them to Himself, and makes hard-hearted sinners penitent. "A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh."


_________________
Taylor Otwell

 2008/10/28 14:39Profile
tjservant
Member



Joined: 2006/8/25
Posts: 1658
Indiana USA

 Re: Does God Predestine Some Men to Hell? (Double Predestination)


Excellent video, thanks for posting it.

Brother Mark Kieler does a wonderful job of presenting the false understanding (hyper-Calvinistic) view of “double predestination” that many attribute to those that hold to the doctrines of grace. This erroneous view is often used as the straw man in many poor refutations on the market today. Brother Kieler continues by thoroughly explaining the true and proper historic view held by those that are not “Hyper” in their beliefs.

If you are wondering about this subject, please take the time to view this video. Not to be persuaded, but to be informed. It is okay to disagree. The problem is that often times the Calvinism many people disagree with is based on false presumptions and misinformation. This leads to a type of Calvinism many Calvinist would also disagree with. There have already been comments made on this thread that show a classic misunderstanding of this theology. I will not be pointing them out. I have no intention of debate.

This video does a great job of explaining something that needs to be explained.

Grace and peace


_________________
TJ

 2008/10/28 15:02Profile
rbanks
Member



Joined: 2008/6/19
Posts: 1257


 Re:

Quote:

TaylorOtwell wrote:
rbanks,

So, based on your statement that Christ only draws those who are truly penitent, I take it you believe that Paul was truly penitent on the Damascus road, and that is why Christ appeared to Him and called Paul to Himself?




I don't see how true regeneration can take place in a person who is not penitent.

We don't know what God was doing in Paul up until this time. We know that He was witnessing the stoning of Stephen. We are also know that he was very diligent in his Jewist faith and was striving diligently to please the God of his Father's. The many persecutions he was involved in, he said he did it ignorantly in unbelief.

We don't know for sure what was going on in his heart. We also know after his conversion that he said God had mercy on him the chief of sinners as a pattern for all those who would believe.

 2008/10/28 15:15Profile
HomeFree89
Member



Joined: 2007/1/21
Posts: 797
Indiana

 Re:

Quote:

hmmhmm wrote:
i want to recomend david bercots book "will the real heretic please stand up" . He proves this heretical doctrine false.This is a man made doctrine and no where to be found in the word of God.

Deu 30:19-20 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live: That thou mayest love the LORD thy God, and that thou mayest obey his voice, and that thou mayest cleave unto him: for he is thy life, and the length of thy days: that thou mayest dwell in the land which the LORD sware unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them.



Good post, Christian. That book helped me a lot with this issue.


_________________
Jordan

 2008/10/28 15:24Profile
bible1985
Member



Joined: 2008/8/13
Posts: 354


 Re:

taylorotwell thank you for putting that straightforward to me.

 2008/10/28 15:32Profile
TaylorOtwell
Member



Joined: 2006/6/19
Posts: 927
Arkansas

 Re:

Quote:
I don't see how true regeneration can take place in a person who is not penitent.



That is because we are approaching this from two different views on regeneration. I, and others who share such convictions, believe that regeneration proceeds faith and is not dependent on any merit or cause in the creature. However, you, and others who share your conviction, believe that regeneration follows a response on the creature's part. That discussion has probably already been addressed in length somewhere else on this site.

I would humbly suggest that a thorough review of Ezekiel 36:26-27 would be helpful.

Bible1985: I'm humbled to be of service to you.



_________________
Taylor Otwell

 2008/10/28 15:38Profile
HomeFree89
Member



Joined: 2007/1/21
Posts: 797
Indiana

 Re: Does God Predestine Some Men to Hell? (Double Predestination)

repentcanada,

Thanks for posting the link, but I can't watch youtube videos due to the internet filter we use.

I would like to ask the calvinists on here, how is double predestination not true if your view of predestination is right. How can you have one without the other? As you know, I don't believe in predestination as taught in calvinism, but I have wondered this. Thanks!


_________________
Jordan

 2008/10/28 15:42Profile









 Re:

I believe in Predestination as taught by the Bible...never met Calvin. Well, went to school with one years ago.

But here it is...

Romans 9:11-24 (KJV)
11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)
12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. 17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth. 18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

ALL are predestinated to a certain destiny. Absolutely.

 2008/10/28 15:52









 Re:

...anyone got any Tylenol?

Krispy

 2008/10/28 16:04





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