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Miccah
Member



Joined: 2007/9/13
Posts: 1752
Wisconsin

 Re:


Joshh wrote:

Quote:
There aren't 2,000 year old people because no one wants to live that long.




[u][b]Genisis 6:3 (NKJV)[/b][/u]

And the LORD said, “My Spirit shall not strive with man forever, for he is indeed flesh; [b]yet his days shall be one hundred and twenty years.[/b]


There are no 2000 year old people because the Lord says there will not be, not because man said there will not be.


_________________
Christiaan

 2008/8/27 18:04Profile
Joshh
Member



Joined: 2008/8/26
Posts: 62


 Re:

Quote:

Miccah wrote:
Joshh wrote:
Quote:


don't call him a fraud because he isn't clearing out hospitals (I don't think you have in this thread, but that is a common argument from those who think God wants people sick).




I don't know the man or anything about him, you do.

In your opinion, why isn't he, your friend, clearing out hospitals?

Thanks

Hi Miccah. He isn't clearing out hospitals because it isn't all up to him to clear them out. The sick person will play a role in getting healed, and if that person has no faith for healing or clings to their doubts, they will find it hard to recieve from God. Jesus Himself was bound by the unbelief in his hometown, and could do no great works there. In the same way, he, I, you, are bound by unbelief in hospitals.

 2008/8/27 18:53Profile
Miccah
Member



Joined: 2007/9/13
Posts: 1752
Wisconsin

 Re:

Hey Joshh,

Thanks for your thoughts on this.


Joshh wrote:

Quote:


Jesus Himself was bound by the unbelief in his hometown, and could do no great works there.



Respectfully, can you point out in the Bible where is says Jesus was bound by people's unbelief and thus could do no great work there? The only thing I can find is this:


[u][b]Matthew 13:58 (NKJV)[/b][/u]

"Now He did not do many mighty works there because of their unbelief."


The Bible says that He [u]did not[/u] do mighty works, not that He [u]could not[/u]. Big difference, and it also applies to us folks in the flesh. :-)


_________________
Christiaan

 2008/8/27 19:27Profile
Joshh
Member



Joined: 2008/8/26
Posts: 62


 Re:

Quote:

Miccah wrote:
Hey Joshh,

Thanks for your thoughts on this.


Joshh wrote:
Quote:


Jesus Himself was bound by the unbelief in his hometown, and could do no great works there.



Respectfully, can you point out in the Bible where is says Jesus was bound by people's unbelief and thus could do no great work there? The only thing I can find is this:


[u][b]Matthew 13:58 (NKJV)[/b][/u]

"Now He did not do many mighty works there because of their unbelief."


The Bible says that He [u]did not[/u] do mighty works, not that He [u]could not[/u]. Big difference, and it also applies to us folks in the flesh. :-)

The Greek word there can also be translated as "cannot" as it is in Matthew 5:14 "A city that is set on a hill cannot be hid". But the main point I was trying to make is that there weren't many great works done by Jesus in an environment of unbelief and doubt, so it would be the same for us today in hospitals.

Sorry if I clouded things up for you, I wasn't trying to. I was replying while I was on a break at work, and in my haste, picked a poor choice of words.

 2008/8/27 21:17Profile
AbideinHim
Member



Joined: 2006/11/26
Posts: 3492
Louisiana

 Re:

There have been many good posts on the subject of healing and we can all learn from one another if we go to the Lord with a teachable spirit. As with many other bible subjects, I at one time thought that I had healing all figured out, but I have had to change some of my beliefs as I received more light from the Lord on the subject.

Jesus clearly showed in His earthly ministry that it was God's will to heal the sick.

I believe that healing is in the atonement.

"The greatest of Hebrew Scholars of every denomination for at least a couple of hundred years when giving an exact, accurate translation of verse 4 in Isa.53 all agree that it is speaking of physical illness, sickness and disease. Surely he hath borne our griefs (Kholee=sicknesses) and carried our sorrows (Makob=pains). Every time these words for sickness and pains are used in the Old Testament it is never speaking of spiritual things but always physical. The author of Youngs concordance translated this verse as Surely our sicknesses he hath borne, and our pains he hath carried them. Other popular careful preachers of the Word saw this, such men as Alexander McLaren, A.J. Gordon, Andrew Murray, A.B. Simpson, Sidlow Baxter and others." (Keith Malcomson)

There are many promises of God concerning physical healing, and all of these promises are for the children of God. Many people are not healed either out of a ignorance of the promises of God or a failure to appropriate these promises by faith.

If we know that healing is the will of God, then we will not pray "if it be thy will", but we will pray according to His revealed will in His Word.

There are gifts of healing that have been given to the Body of Christ. These gifts would not have been given to the Church if it wasn't the Lord's will to heal His people.

The Word says that "Believers shall lay hands on the sick and they shall recover." This is the right and privledge for every child of God, to be a channel for the Lord to flow through.

The Word exhorts those that are sick to call for the elders of the Church. The prayer of faith shall save the sick.

The gospel of Jesus Christ is a full gospel. We have settled for much less than a full gospel. The gospel of Jesus Christ is indeed good news because it is the power of God to be saved from our sins, delivered from the powers of darkness, and healed of our sickness. Look up the meaning of the Word salvation in the greek, and you will clearly see this.

Now the question always arises: How come all are not healed? That is very simple: "God is sovereign." God sometimes has a higher purpose than removing the sickness or disease from the person.

Thank you all for this discussion on healing. We can all learn from one another.

Mike


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Mike

 2008/8/28 1:21Profile
Joshh
Member



Joined: 2008/8/26
Posts: 62


 Re:

Hi Mike, 2 questions:

You said:

Quote:
Jesus clearly showed in His earthly ministry that it was God's will to heal the sick.

I believe that healing is in the atonement.

If we know that healing is the will of God, then we will not pray "if it be thy will", but we will pray according to His revealed will in His Word.

And:
Quote:
Now the question always arises: How come all are not healed? That is very simple: "God is sovereign." God sometimes has a higher purpose than removing the sickness or disease from the person.

Do you not see a contridiction between those statements?

And, Col 1:15 says Jesus is the image of the invisable God. During his earthly ministry, Jesus never had to stop and pray to see if a person was to be healed or not. In fact, there are multiple times that Jesus healed all in a multitude. Respectfully, where do you see that sometimes God has a higher purpose to leave people sick?

 2008/8/28 1:59Profile
AbideinHim
Member



Joined: 2006/11/26
Posts: 3492
Louisiana

 Re:

"Respectfully, where do you see that sometimes God has a higher purpose to leave people sick?"

Hi Josh,

Have you ever known someone that was believing God for their healing, yet they were not healed? Now some may say that it was because of their lack of faith, but I have known of people that have believed God for their healing right down to death's door and yet they were not healed.

I know of one case where a man of God was praying for His father in law to be healed, and the Lord impressed this man to stop praying, because it was His will to take the man while he was walking with God. There was a time when he wasn't walking with God, and the Lord knew that this was the best time for him to go.

We know that it is God's will to heal the sick, and we stand on the promises of God, but we can't dictate to God when or how the healing will take place, and sometimes it might just be the "ultimate healing".

There are also laws that if we violate, we cannot expect God to heal us. If we abuse these bodies and we are sick because of it, do you think the Lord is going to heal us unless we repent and stop putting junk in the temple of the Holy Ghost?

Mike






_________________
Mike

 2008/8/28 4:05Profile
Joshh
Member



Joined: 2008/8/26
Posts: 62


 Re:

Mike, I know people like that! I don't think it's lack of faith, but usually doubts that overshadow their faith that keep them from getting healed. But I've only had my thinking changed on the subject in the past year.

A thing I disagree with you on is regarding when the healing will take place. When I look at Jesus in the Bible, I see the healings usually happened rather quickly. I look at the story of the 10 lepers. What a great time to show that God has a different time to heal people. Yet, all 10 get healed that hour.

I'll probably get slammed for this, but I don't think that getting healed is due to keeping laws. I will also say that living a holy life should be very important to any Christian. But, looking at Jesus, I see that he healed multitudes, and I'm sure there were a few bad people that came for and got the healing they were looking for.

Just an add on to the above paragraph: I don't think my good works are good enough to recieve ANYTHING from God. Everything I get from God, whether healing, salvation, a roof over my head, food in my stomach, etc, is only given to me because of what Jesus has done for me. Everything God has given me is due to his grace, and nothing more.

 2008/8/28 4:59Profile









 Re:

Have you considered that [b]death[/b] may be healing? It's the ultimate healing.

I know several people who are going thru cancer, and so far... even tho they have complete faith that God can heal them if He chooses to... they have not been healed.

I watched a friend of ours die from cancer a couple years ago. Complete faith for healing, yet she died anyway. Why? It wasnt what God had in mind for her. And to say otherwise is to deny that God has fixed the time of their death before they were born. Either that, or the cancer took God by surprise and threw off His clock.

You're making me sound like a Calvinist! lol

Krispy

 2008/8/28 6:43









 Re:

The more I think about this the more I am uncomfortable with the thought that God's power is limited by us. I dont believe for a minute that Jesus "couldn't" preform healings and miracles in His hometown because the people there didn't have faith. He could have done anything He wanted (willed) to do... regardless of their faith.

I believe He chose not to perform healings and miracles in His hometown because He knew they still wouldn't believe He was who He said He was no matter how many healings He performed.

He simply chose not to cast His pearls before swine.

Simple as that. God is not limited by us.

Krispy

 2008/8/28 7:42





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