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pritybetta
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Joined: 2008/7/26
Posts: 2
SEMO

 Tongues

know if anyone has had a post already on tongues.

I was wondering what everyones thoughts were about wether or not tongues still happen today or not.

I for one do not believe the Lord still uses the gift today. I will explain my view latter in this thread. Right now I was just wondering who thought what on the topic.

 2008/7/26 16:05Profile
logan_trky
Member



Joined: 2006/9/14
Posts: 29


 Re: Tongues

Yes. It is for today. It is said that the promise of the baptism of the Holy Spirit is to your children, and your children's children in Acts 2:39.

Acts 2:4;10:44-46;19:1-7

There is no evidence that it is not for today. A better explanation is that the "Baptism with the Holy Spirit" is for today. The only scripture that one would have a crutch for is 1 Corinthians 13:8

"Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away."


This, however, is speaking of the perfect age to come. Read down a little further in verse 9 and 10.

"For we know in part and we prophesy in part; but when that which is PERFECT is come, then that which is in part shall be done away."

For this verse to come remotely close to being justification for belief that tongues are done away with for TODAY, the following things would have to occur:

1. Prophecies shall fail..
2.Knowledge has vanished away.

Now, considering you are not Pentecostal/Charismatic, I am sure that you believe that prophecy is not for today. However, knowledge has obviously NOT vanished away. When the perfect age comes, however, we will not need knowledge, prophecies, or tongues, because we will be in a perfect state. Paul himself said in in 1 Corinthians 14:5 that he wants everyone to speak in tongues (To be Baptized with the Holy Spirit). When you were saved, you were Baptized into Christ. Christ then, baptizes you into the Holy Spirit, if you are willing to accept the gift.


 2008/7/26 21:30Profile
PaulWest
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Joined: 2006/6/28
Posts: 3405
Dallas, Texas

 Re:

Quote:
Paul himself said in in 1 Corinthians 14:5 that he wants everyone to speak in tongues (To be Baptized with the Holy Spirit).


My Bible doesn't have those parenthesis at the end of the verse. There is no Biblical proof that tongues are the uniform and initial sign of Holy Spirit baptism - and indeed, church history proves otherwise. To legislate this is to discount roughly 2000 years of Spirit-filled ministry (prior to Charles Fox Parham's Topeka school in 1901) and all the Spirit-filled revivals God wrought in the church without exhibiting this particular sign.

Incidentally, the man who coined the doctrine of tongues as the [i]uniform initial evidence[/i] of being filled with the Spirit is the same man that proposed the British and American peoples were part of the "10 lost tribes" of Israel.


_________________
Paul Frederick West

 2008/7/26 21:46Profile
logan_trky
Member



Joined: 2006/9/14
Posts: 29


 Re:

Every time someone was baptized in the Holy Spirit in Acts they DID speak in tongues. The only time it was not recorded was in chapter 9. However, it didn't need recorded! The evidence is already backed up by scripture after scripture.
After Saul's conversion on the Damascus Road, a disciple named Ananias was sent that Saul might receive his sight and "be filled with the Holy Ghost" (Acts 9:17). The restoration of sight is described, but nothing further is said in Acts 9 about Saul's being filled with the Holy Spirit. In 1 Corinthians 14:18, however, Paul testified, "I speak with tongues more than ye all." Since Paul began speaking with tongues at some time, it is logical to assume he began when he was baptized in the Holy Spirit. This would be in perfect harmony with those events in which the details of the baptism in the Spirit are given.

Of the five instances in Acts which recount the experience of believers being baptized in the Spirit, three supply details. Speaking in tongues is the only one that occurs each time (Acts 2, 10, 19). In the Acts 10 account, tongues is specifically mentioned as proof that "the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles. For they heard them speaking in tongues" (Acts 10:45, 46). In the two cases where details are not supplied, circumstances strongly imply that speaking with other tongues accompanied the experience. In Acts 8 Simon saw something ( saw them speak in tongues) that prompted him to offer money for the power to impart such a gift.

I would also like to point out that tongues as the initial evidence was not "coined" by any man. It gives evidence of such in the Word of God.

As far as history of past revivals, John Wesley has reported people speaking in tongues in his meetings. However, I am not interested so much in history, as much as I am what the Word of God says.

 2008/7/26 21:51Profile
PaulWest
Member



Joined: 2006/6/28
Posts: 3405
Dallas, Texas

 Re:

Quote:
Every time someone was baptized in the Holy Spirit in Acts they DID speak in tongues. The only time it was not recorded was in chapter 9.


Acts 8 mention no tongues with the people from Samaria, no wind, no fire no tongues. With Saul's filling, the Holy Spirit is also conspicuously silent. And even if tongues were present, this proves nothing. It did not become a doctrine as we know it until l901; before this, church history has absolutely no such record or teaching - not from the apostles, not from the early church fathers - and being such an important doctrine as it is, one might imagine it would be mentioned in a letter of Paul, but here again we find the Spirit of God curiously silent.

Do you really believe that no man had experienced the genuine Spirit Baptism until 1901 in Topeka, Kansas?


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Paul Frederick West

 2008/7/26 22:05Profile
rbanks
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Joined: 2008/6/19
Posts: 1257


 Re:

I have no doubt that God did not use these preachers who never spoke in tongues.

I believe they were filled with the Holy Spirit for God to use them the way he did.

It is also very clear from the book of acts that the initial evidence of the baptism of the Holy Spirit was the speaking in tongues.

People can deny it but they can never prove otherwise. The evidence is clear and the only ones who will try and prove otherwise are only those who have never experienced it.

I believe it was Smith Wigglesworth who promise a reward to any one who could prove a genuine baptism in the Holy Ghost without the evidence of speaking in tonques.

But I am also one who believes that many charismatics who have learn how to say a few words that they don't understand and think they have it don't really have the experience.

The real baptism in the Holy Ghost is powerful and God takes complete control and you are amazed at what God did through and in you and there is never a doubt about it because it is an awesome experience.

 2008/7/26 22:10Profile
logan_trky
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Joined: 2006/9/14
Posts: 29


 Re:

PaulWest, I just edited my previous post. I have just answered your questions in it.

 2008/7/26 22:13Profile
PaulWest
Member



Joined: 2006/6/28
Posts: 3405
Dallas, Texas

 Re:

Quote:
I have just answered your questions in it.


Yes, I know you did, the best you know how. The occasions where the Spirit is silent you have extracted inferentially from scripture to make it fit Parham's teaching. We should just leave it where it is (it was the parenthesis you put at the end of the verse that enticed me).


_________________
Paul Frederick West

 2008/7/26 22:22Profile
logan_trky
Member



Joined: 2006/9/14
Posts: 29


 Re:

How much evidence do you need?? I still have not seen where you have scripturally proven your point. I would be interested to know your SCRIPTURAL point of view, and not the historical point of view. Actually, I see no Scripture quoted in all of your posts.

 2008/7/26 22:24Profile
DelightedInU
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Joined: 2004/5/17
Posts: 102
Escondido, CA

 Re:

God is the same yesterday, today and forever. If the Apostles were given the gift of tongues, then we too are available to the same gifts.


_________________
Jennifer

 2008/7/26 22:24Profile





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