pastorfrin wrote:Hi rbanks,I have never in all these years of ministry encouraged anyone to get a divorce for any reason. I have spent years of ministry teaching couples not to divorce, so no, I would not tell anyone to divorce.
rbanks wrote:Dear Brethren,Lets look at the scriptures:1 Corinthians 7:10-11 (KJV) 10 And unto the married I command, yet not I, but the Lord, Let not the wife depart from her husband: 11 But and if she depart, let her remain unmarried, or be reconciled to her husband: and let not the husband put away his wife.The apostle in these two verses of scripture is talking to believers who are married not to depart from one another but if they did for some reason, they were to remain unmarried or be reconciled.Paul now is going to deal with mixed marriages.1Co 7:12 But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away.1Co 7:13 And the woman which hath an husband that believeth not, and if he be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him.1Co 7:14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy.1Co 7:15 But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases: but God hath called us to peace.1Co 7:16 For what knowest thou, O wife, whether thou shalt save thy husband? or how knowest thou, O man, whether thou shalt save thy wife?The apostle Paul here is telling believers not to leave the unbelievers if they were pleased to dwell with them because they maybe saved and that is Gods heart to save the lost. They knew the apostles teaching on not being yoked together with unbelievers and that they were only to marry in the Lord. Paul did not want them to leave the unbeliever if they were pleased to dwell with them because it might cause them to be saved.Paul also tells them that if they will not dwell with them peacefully and they want to depart let them because God wants there to be peace. He goes on to tell them that if the unbeliever departs that a brother or sister is not under bondage in such cases.Study the scriptures and one can clearly see that God does not want believers yoked with unbelievers because what fellowship hath light with darkness. Paul is only telling the believers in Christ to remain unmarried or be reconciled to their spouse if they were to depart. Think about this, if Paul tells those believers in mixed marriages not to depart from the unbelievers when they are pleased to dwell with them and also that if they did depart they were not under bondage why would we as preachers today tell a saved man or woman to divorce their spouse and leave their children to go back to a marriage when they were in sin. The scriptures never say this; only people who are ignorant to the riches of the mercy of God. The scriptures are silent concerning the past marriage of those who were in sin and who were not believers in Christ because when you confess your sins and get saved all your past sins are forgiven and cleansed by the blood. God who is merciful and kind says he will not remember them any more. He makes you a new creature and can even save the family that you are presently in and will not tell you to do anything to hurt someone else. If your unsaved spouse that you are presently with is pleased to dwell with you then they may get save because of what God did for you. The scripture never tells a born again believer to go back to a marriage when he was living in sin without Christ. In the new covenant there is never a command to divorce your spouse to be single neither is there a command to go back to a former marriage.I guess you could say I feel passionate about not condemning someone for their past. I dont want my Lord Jesus to be misrepresented concerning the power of the blood of His cross. Blessings to all!
I must say that God delivered me from going down the path of legalism.
_________________Sandra Miller
Pastorfrin wrote:We have polluted the teachings of Jesus Christ and we now have pastors, elders, friends and family encouraging divorce among Christians and it must stop. How many families have been broken because of these devilish liberal teachings on divorce?Ministers must teach the truth as stated in Gods word and the only harm that it will cause is to the kingdom of satan. [b]But oh, how severe will be the judgment, by His word, against those who have made it easy and in to many cases encouraged Christians to divorce.[/b]
But I will tell you that I HATE divorce - and if I had any idea how the Lord felt about it at the time I got divorced - I NEVER would have even considered it. It is one of the most destructive forces that I have ever seen. While I have been forgiven for my sin, there has been a price to be paid - and it is still being paid - unfortunately by others.
_________________Robert Wurtz II
Quote: "How many homes have been split apart by this teaching that you give here?"Ans. None. No law,whether it be the Law of God or a law of man,can or does cause one to sin or cause one to sin not. 'For through law is a knowledge of sin'."And we have known that as many things as the law saith, to those in the law it doth speak, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may come under judgment to God; wherefore by works of law shall no flesh be declared righteous before Him, for through law is a knowledge of sin." (Rom.3:19,20)Homes have been split apart by men's wicked and hard heart.Jer. 17:9 "The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?"Matt. 19:8 "He said to them: Moses, on account of the hardness of your heart, permitted you to divorce your wives: but from the beginning it was not so." Mark 10:5 "Jesus answered and said to them: On account of the hardness of your heart, Moses wrote you this precept." Quote: Are you sure Paul is saying what you say he is, sure enough to leave children without a father or mother?Ans. As in the other quote (question) above this is an argument of psychological nature imposing guilt by manipulating one's emotions, as if man is the chief end, rather than the glory of God in the salvation of men by grace through faith. Also, this same person used Ezra to justify breaking up all remarriages whether children be involved or not. Therefore,using a double standard for his convenience. Ezra is being used out of context by this poster as a prooftext for this Roman view. May we read it in its context and apply it soundly and consistently. John 1:17 "For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ." Quote: Are you not telling a christian it is ok for them to divorce and to seek another mate?Ans. No. Only what God through Moses,Jesus,and Paul has said. When sin is no longer an issue neither will divorce be. In Lawful (see Ezra 10) cases divorce is the remedy for the sin rather than the sin.Quote: Will you take the responsibility for their souls?Ans. This is yet another quote(question)which is a psychological play on one's emotions. A christian will not tempt Christ by sinning against his brother because he knows that Christ commanded that we forgive 70x7 times a day. Neither will he divorce or encourage others to even if the plain teaching of Scripture is that it is Lawful in some cases.Noteworthy it is that most (not all) who hold to the Roman view (indissolubility of marriage) on this issue also hold to the view that one born of God and in Christ,that is joined unto the Lord and is one spirit(not merely 'one flesh') with Him (1 Cor. 6:17), may be unjoined from Him and cast away from Him into an eternal hell. So making a flesh union between relations which are temporal, greater than that union by which God has eternally covenanted Himself with us through His Son. "Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit to God." (Rom. 7:4) "For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ." (2 Cor. 11:2) May those who hold both (indissolubility of marriage and loss of salvation) these erroneous and damnable lies in their left hand be given eyes of grace to see their inconsistencies and their graceless deception. Eph. 6:24 Grace be with all who love our Lord Jesus Christ with love incorruptible.
HeyI have been following this thread for awhile and thinking about if I should post or not, but then decided that maybe I should speak up this time, not take the easy way out, so for what its worth here goes. When I was seventeen my dad walked out on my mom. They had been married for thirty years at the time. She was completely shocked and devastated by it. She knew that there were problems but she always thought that if they were both willing they could work things out. I watched as she begged and pleaded with him not to leave, but he did anyway. He moved out and later moved in with a much younger woman, she was six years older then I was. My mom got really depressed, stopped eating, and had to be put into the hospital. She was suicidal and it killed me to watch her day after day as she slipped further and further away from us. I tried to talk to my dad, to get him to see the pain and heartache he was causing the entire family. I shard with him from the Bible that what he was doing was wrong and that he needed to repent and come back home and take care of my mother, that he needed to keep the promise he had made thirty years ago to love, honor, and cherish until death do us part. I still remember what he said to me, "You don't understand. I was young when I got married to your mother and things change. I just don't love her any more. After all don't I deserve to be happy to?" I am ashamed to admit that I did not stand my ground that day. After he told me how he had talked with the pastor and that he was assured what he was doing was for the best. The pastor explained to him that the Bible allowed for divorce and that leaving my mom was at least being honest with her about his feelings and that in the end that would be healthy for the entire family because he would no longer be living a lie. So I gave up, I told him that I thought he should be happy to, and he left for good. So many times I wish I could go back to that conversation and change what I said to him, tell him that he was wrong, and his friends were wrong, and so was that pastor! Divorce is a sin and that by doing what he was, he was throwing his entire family away. There are times I still deal with the grief and guilt of that day. I still feel like I let my mom down even though she assures me that I didn't. A few years have passed since then and my mom did with much prayer get better. She lives alone now and has no intention to ever remarry, she still sees herself as my dads wife. My dad is another story, even though he still professes to be Christian, he has been married two more time since my mother. His second wife left him for someone else not to long after they married. She wanted children, he didn't. He is now with his third wife. I don't hear from him very often, he does not like it when I try to share the truth with him. I do pray for him though. I guess the reason I wanted share all of this with you guys is to warn you of some of the things your saying. You might not mean for it to but some post almost sound a lot like that pastor who talked to my dad several years ago. Please just think about the fact that some people look at what you write and are just looking for any one to give them a reason to clear their conscious so they can walk in sin and self. Just the late night thoughts of someones whose parents are divorced.
wind_blows,do not feel guilty about that which you did not know. Maybe you didn't stand up back then, but you are standing up now - and who knows how many people might read the words that you have written - and who knows how many children might be able to keep their family just because of the words that you have written.While your family here on earth is broken, rest assured that in heaven we will have a family that is whole.Recently someone gave me a picture of my family before the divorce. It is the first one that I have ever seen of the four of us together. As I look at it I realize just how mixed up my sense of family is - no wonder I am having so much trouble seeing the body of Christ as a "unit."Before you get married, make sure that the person you marry is the one that God has picked out for you - you probably already know this, but I wanted to tell you just in case because it is of utmost importance. Only He knows who will be a perfect fit - that the two of you may truly become one.What you have said makes my heart hurt. May God bless you for your courage.
I think there is a need to try a clear up all the mis-understanding and confusion through mis-applied accusations in some of these threads.Those (and I include myself) who are defending grace and liberty to ones who are 'victims' of divorce ARE NOT saying divorce is acceptable or OK. I have not read one who says this. I choose the word 'victim' deliberately. By this I mean those who have suffered divorce as the result of another's sin or through their past sin as an un-believer or ignorance.Let's be clear 'ALL DIVORCE IS WRONG'. However if you become a 'victim' of divorce as described above, you are not to be held in a state of bondage for the rest of your life. Will there be consequences? Absolutely and this will depend upon each circumstance and what degree of responsibility each individual had regarding the divorce. That is between them and God and those who know them well.So I DO AGREE with a lot of what those such as Pastorfin say. Please continue to speak against divorce and against those who say it is OK to divorce. But in doing so, DO NOT paint every person and situation with the same brush. Be careful not lay heavy burdens on folk that God never intended them to carry! What people like me are objecting to is not that you say divorce is wrong, but what you say to ALL who are now 'victims' of divorce.Before anyone pulls me up on using the term 'victim'. I am NOT diminishing sin and our guilt before God. We are all victims of sin, that being our own sin and the sin that is in the world through others. We are responsible for our own sin before God. It's how we deal with the result of sin (our's and other's) that is the issue.
_________________Dave
Thanks Savannah for replying to the post that was twisting the truth that I was trying to convey. I was not on here to reply to those unjust accusations and I thank you for doing that.Also thanks to heydave for trying to clear up confusion and for portraying accurately in your post my position precisely and the very reason I came on this thread in the first place.I do want pastorfrin and others who seem to agree with him that I am not accusing you of anything but only stating that the teaching that has been promoted on this thread is tainted with legalism that condemns Gods children whom Christ died for. If you want to accuse me of anything falsely then thats your choice but I will stand with the good company of my Lord Jesus who was also accused falsely. To wind_blows, I am very sorry for your mother and family. I would never justify what your Dad did. I do pray that he will repent. My writings were never to justify any wrongs that are done but only to clear those of bondage or guilt to their past sins under the blood and also to show the freedom from the bondage of being responsible to one who has walked out on them.I would have told you to not give up on praying for his repentance and salvation. Our strong faith in God can cause him to do things that are impossible for us. I would have also and even now tell your mother that Jesus will never leave her and will be everything that she needs for this life and the next. Jesus says we are to love him more than our spouse. God wants our faith and Love to be so strong in him, although other people can hurt us that nothing becomes more important to us than walking in fellowship with God. I have seen people loose their faith because of what someone else did and that is putting to much faith and Love in something or someone other than Christ. I do hope your mother is walking with Christ and enjoying fellowship with Him. He can fill every void and heal every pain. There are none married in heaven nor given in marriage. The only marriage will be at the marriage supper of the Lamb. Praise his holy name!!!This may be my last reply on this thread. I uphold marriage as a sacred institution ordained by God and not to be entered into lightly. If anyone thinks that they can sin by committing adultery or divorcing your spouse then you better hope you get the fear of God in your heart because the wages of sin is death. The bible says that you will reap what you sow. God condemns all sin but does not condemn those who are justified in Christ walking in the light for what they did in their past or what someone else did to them. This is the purpose for all my posts and can easily be read on this threadBlessings to all!