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Discussion Forum : General Topics : Should Christian Parents send their kids to public schools?

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ccchhhrrriiisss
Member



Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4496


 Re:

Hi Miccah…

Quote:

Our job is to raise our children in the ways of the Lord, not to send them out into the world and hope that their faith will get them through it.

I could be wrong, but I don't recall any child being sent into the world to be a missionary in scripture. I do see that scripture says to teach your children Gods way. The only child that I see doing this is Jesus Himself, whose resume needs no explanation.

Also, to my understanding, all of the people in the Bible who went into the world were adults and not children.


I recall that young David walked into a valley to confront Goliath. However, I don’t know that there are many instances regarding young people” facing the world” in the Bible. But what exactly is “the world?” Is it this place in which we live? Aren’t we all, in a sense, in this world? We are simply not OF this world. I think that we often go wayyyyyyy overboard by claiming that sending children to public school is equal to sending them into the lion’s den or even labeling public schools to be “the world” (as if the rest of everything in life is NOT the world). We ARE in this world. We live here (at least, temporarily). We interact here. We pay our taxes here (which pay for the schools).

I think that the “shelter your children” approach is a fine attitude when children are very young…but it doesn’t hold much water when they have reached a proper age of accountability. Aren’t we supposed to spend our lives preparing our children to face the accountability that they will one day be forced to grow up? Each of our children will one day have to get a job and earn a living. There isn’t anything “worldly” about that (in regard to sin). Children will eventually need to grow up and choose for themselves (this day) whom they will serve. It is our responsibility to prepare them for that choice. When they are young, we can do our best to make that choice for them.

I would suggest that every parent who decides to allow his/her children to attend public school to explain things adequate. Let your children know that they will be taught “truths” that do not line up with God’s Word. Explain to them that children will judge other children because of their faith. Explain to them that the children of this world belong to the god of this age, and that their thoughts, actions and lessons will reflect such allegiance. Let them know what to expect and how to counter such things as a believer. Explain that evolution is a THEORY that contradicts itself over and over again, even if there are some “proofs” offered on its behalf. Explain that the people of this world will dress and act in a manner reflective of the one that they unwittingly choose to serve.

I will say that not all schools are as wicked as some would have us believe. Many schools attempt to remain strict educational facilities. I would almost certainly move out of an area that had violent or a terrible set of educational institutions (because those students will one day live and work in the same community). This is why there was a massive shift toward the suburbs during the 1990s. Yet even if I lived in a “good” district, I would think twice (and pray and fast repeatedly) before sending my young children to a public school. It might not be violent, sexually perverse, or even filled with bad kids or teachers. But the fact remains that I just don’t trust teachers that I have never met to instruct my children for 8 hours each day. And I know that I don’t trust the evolutionary biology that is the basis for most of the sciences that are taught in public schools.

I think that I could allow my teenage child to attend a public school IF he was a strong believer and had been well prepared for it. I wouldn’t see it as “missionary work,” except in the fact that we are called to let our lights shine in this present world (and not simply hide it under a very spiritual and protective bushel). I would send my teen to a public high school to LEARN. Yet I would make certain that he could differentiate between the holy and the profane. If my child was unable to do so, I would quickly yank him out and do my best to prepare him to make such a distinction.

Once we have children, we will likely homeschool them through junior high school. We just don’t trust social and scientific liberals within state education agencies to properly teach our children.

Hi Krispy…
Quote:

83% of Christians entering secular universities reject their Christian faith by graduation. Thats why. I'll find the exact stats if you would like. Ever been in a residence hall? You honestly want to pay to send your kids there? If so... you're nuts.


I’m not so convinced by any statistic that claims that “[i]83% of Christians entering secular universities reject their Christian faith by graduation[/i].” I think that such a “statistic” is not accurate and is used more as a [i]scare tactic[/i] for overprotective parents against those “evil secular universities” rather than being truly based in fact. As a Christian who attended secular universities, works a “secular” job and lives in a “secular” world – I find it preposterous to suggest that the faith of a Christian could be lost so easily. Not only did I [u]not[/u] lose my faith during college, I actually matured as a believer. I was involved with many other believers on the campus (with involvement in Church, Christian student organizations, on-campus Bible studies, and on campus prayer-meetings). I don’t recall a single believer who “lost his/her faith” during that time.

I think that it would have been far more accurate of the supposed statistician to say that 83% of [i]supposed[/i] Churchgoers reject Christianity. I seriously doubt the validity of a “statistic” that claims that 83% of people who have truly met Jesus Christ would abandon their faith in Christ at a secular university. If they do, then their faith was pretty weak (if we can call it faith at all). After having attended a “Christian” university and secular universities, I would think that it would be easier for a “Christian” young person to become polluted by the things of this world at a “Christian” school – simply because of the preponderance of acceptance of a particular activity or idea. Like C.S. Lewis stated, “[i]The gradual road to Hell is the most faithful[/i]” (or something to that effect). I attended a Christian school for one semester that actually held the musical “GREASE” in the same auditorium that housed the weekly prayer meeting (maybe “weakly” would have been a better word). I think that it is often easier to make a distinction between the holy and the profane when you attend a secular school. Regardless, whether you attend a secular university or a supposedly “Christian” school, it is impossible to let something affect you unless you allow it to. This is why it is so important to teach children to learn the difference between what is holy and what is profane.

In addition, I lived in resident halls the entire time I was working on my Bachelor’s and Master’s degrees at a public university. The dorms contained crude living conditions (small room, old facilities), but they were FAR from the silly stereotypes of “party central.” In fact, I lived in a freshman dorm that required all visitors to check in and then check out by 11 P.M. This was the policy at all of the residence halls on campus. The campus is a smoking free/alcohol free public facility. The old buildings had thick enough walls that you didn’t get distracted by any noise or odors. When I became a junior, I moved into an upper classmen coed dorm that allowed for visitors 24 hours a day, but maintained a strict 24/7 quiet policy. It was like an apartment building where music, television, talking, etc… had to be kept low enough that you couldn’t hear it in the hall or in any other room. Each floor had a security guard on duty at all times; they roamed through the halls to make sure that everyone followed the rules. If anyone were caught breaking the rules, they were fined at least $100 and given a first and final warning. The next offense would result in expulsion from the dorms and loss of the room deposit (about $150). Because of the relative safety, security and quietness, I wouldn’t have a problem sending my Christian children into such a dorm…and I am not “nuts.” I think my parents were pretty confident in their decision too.
Quote:

As for being controlling... hey, we have a calling as Christian parents to be "shade for the children". We are to raise our children in the nurture and admonition of the Lord. Psalm 1 and all of Proverbs give many many warnings about our dealings with the ungodly. It gives much advice to what is wisdom and what is not.

But surprisingly on this forum there are many people who want to ignore clear teachings in scripture and embrace opinions of man. It's very indicative of the sad shape our churches are in today.

Why not send our kids to public schools and secular universities? Because there is a war on for our children. Spiritual warfare is not about finding demons hiding behind pews... it's about about raising our children in such a manner as to not give Satan a foothold.


I agree – except that I believe that it is possible to “train up a child in the way he should go” without sheltering them from the entire physical world. Of course, we wouldn’t let our children drink poison or see things for the sake of educating them. But I think that it is a little far-fetched to claim that the entire public school system has no good attributes. And, of course, I don’t think that is what you are trying to do. There are some wonderful teachers, students, administrators and instructional methods/aids within the public school system.

Unfortunately, there is also the idea that the schools have gone so far as to make the schools into completely secular institutions. This is not to say that you can’t [i]pray[/i] or read your Bible. I did so regularly. I even started a Christian Bible-study club in my high school. I led the meeting in prayer and in Bible study (well, most of the time). The meetings were attended by over 100 students and several teachers and administrators. Even our principal attended most of the meetings. We were even able to distribute Bibles from the local Gideon organization (as they were no longer allowed entrance to the classrooms). We were able to stand in lunch (with them next to us) as we distributed pocket New Testaments.

I am a product of the public school system. While I did allow myself to become beguiled by the “science” and “facts” of evolution, I believe that this was partially because my parents – although good and well-meaning believers – did not prepare me well enough for what the ideas that the school would present as “fact.” Once I became a believer in high school, I still earned straight A’s and eventually graduated near the top of my class. I was strong enough of a believer to maintain my faith, learn, discern between the holy and the profane, and dismiss what is not true. I was this way in high school. I was this way in college. I am still this way in day-to-day life.

I have an issue with the lack of quality at many Bible schools. I attended one Bible school for a semester after having attended several well-respected Bible schools’ “college days” that demonstrated that they were just as “secular” as my public high school and college. In fact, there was more of a free-spirited party type of atmosphere at the Christian universities than the “secular” colleges that I attended. I found the academics to be sorely lacking too. The faculty was lackadaisical regarding deadlines – and regularly allowed students to turn in assignments late (a terrible precedent when preparing students for the workplace). And to top it off – they were EXTREMELY expensive. Many Christian colleges lack accreditation too, which can hurt while seeking employment or entrance into another school. How do I know? None of my classes were allowed to transfer from the “Christian” university to the “secular” university. Of course, I don’t think that this is reflective of ALL Christian universities – but the one that I attended was a denominational school that enjoyed a pretty good reputation.

Anyway, I don’t mean to dabble with a rhetorical defense of “secular” universities. In fact, I don’t like that word “secular” at all. Schools are supposed to be educational institutions. It is possible for a student to attend a “secular” college and maintain his/her faith. In fact, some students can even grow in their faith during that time. In addition, a Christian student can actually bypass many of the courses that are so “evil” (like Biology and Sociology) by choosing a different set of courses.

Of course, I still prefer to educate my young children (when we have them) at home. My wife and I are more than able to direct their education (with God’s help) during their very important years. However, we are leaning toward a different direction when they are older. I will probably encourage my son or daughter to choose the best school according to what they feel the will of God is for his/her life. Of course, we will cross that bridge when we get to it. My wife and I have only been married for about a year, and we aren’t sure when the children will arrive. Maybe we will “change our tune” once we have children of our own. However, this is how we both feel now.

:-)


_________________
Christopher

 2008/5/30 10:20Profile









 Re:

Here's the difference that I think you're missing, Chrrrriiiissssssssssssssssss.... lol

The difference between going into the highways and byways to compel them to come in... and sending your child into the public school system is this: who's effecting who?

What is the purpose of school? To train children. To teach them how to think. To teach them how to view the world.

Now, obviously the public school system is not interested one bit in teaching children to view the world from a Biblical godly perspective. They are not interested in teaching them how to think from a Biblical position.

The school is there to [b]train[/b] children. A child, and even most teenagers, are not savvy enough to turn the table on the teachers and train the teachers. No, it's the other way around.

In my line of work I use my contacts with others as a way of witnessing Christ thru how I conduct my business, how I talk, how I act, etc. No one is trying to train me or teach me 8 hours a day.

Thats the difference. Scripture is quite clear, especially in Psalm 1, and in other parts, that we are not to receive our training and teaching at the feet of the world... but rather by the Holy Spirit, scripture, the church... and from godly parents.

Not one time does scripture ever recommend receiving our training at the feet of the ungodly. But there are plenty of warnings not to.

So... when you, as an adult, go into a mission field (whatever that may be) you go there to make an impact. You're not going there to sit at the feet of the world and soak in it's wisdom so-called.

Why would we expect children to be able to do exactly the opposite?

The difference is your purpose is to train the ungodly, or teach them, or persuade them. Public schools exist for the soul purpose of training, teaching and persuading young minds. And they are very effective at it.

You go to train... children go to be trained.

And be trained they will be.

Krispy

 2008/5/30 10:37









 Re:

Taken From: Extreme Devotion

In restricted countries, Christian children often suffer alongside their parents. When fathers and mothers are arrested because of their church activities, the children are often left as orphans. If they are lucky, their family members or friends can care for them. However, at worst, they are sent to orphanages or state run institutions. No more bedtime Bible stories and no more family prayers before meals.

However, the letters from the children to their imprisoned parents display tremendous courage and tenacity during the difficult times of separation. Their words convey hope of a reunion.

“God bless you dear Mommy. Don’t be troubled by our temporary separation—it won’t last forever. Our joy will return soon—let that thought encourage you. Mommy, I can’t imagine the feast we will have when you return. I have been keeping up with my schoolwork. Now it is night—tomorrow will be another day. Day after day it drags on, but I know we will be together soon. I embrace you. Your loving daughter.”

“Dear Mom, when you come home, I will not think about the loneliness and pain anymore. I beg you not to cry, Mommy. I love you. I wrote a little poem for you:

You have a heart of gold,
You are young at heart, not old.
The Lord observes you from on high,
We’ll be together soon, you and I.”


Children are often the last ones considered when it comes to the effects of persecution. For every imprisoned parent, there is a child left behind. However, as Jesus pointed out on numerous occasions, a child’s faith is significant. If a child can demonstrate incredible courage amid intense circumstances, then what is our excuse? Instead of growing resentful toward the circumstances that are beyond their control, the children of persecuted Christians are growing in grace. Can we say the same about our lives? As adults, we risk focusing too much on the blows and beatings life brings. We could benefit from modeling the resilient faith of children. In what ways do you need to grow in childlike faith? Begin today by remembering the children.

 2008/5/30 12:59
ccchhhrrriiisss
Member



Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4496


 Re:

Hi Kripsy…

Quote:

The difference between going into the highways and byways to compel them to come in... and sending your child into the public school system is this: who's effecting who?

What is the purpose of school? To train children. To teach them how to think. To teach them how to view the world.


I disagree. The purpose of the school is to EDUCATE. The purpose of the parents is to TRAIN. There is a huge difference here.

However, I agree with what you’re saying. Schools can indoctrinate [u]anyone[/u] who is not mature enough to distinguish between the holy and the profane. That is why my wife and I will almost certainly homeschool our children until they reach an age for which they are mature enough to sift through what is presented by a teacher or textbook. If a young person cannot make such distinction, they should not be in a public school. However, if a person approaches adulthood and still lacks such discernment, then there is probably something wrong. It is our responsibility (as parents) to train them in the ways of the Lord (which includes the wisdom to discern between the holy and profane).

A school, however, is meant to teach educate children in certain subjects. Younger children learn reading, writing, spelling, math, art, science, history and social studies. As they grow, they delve into specific subjects like chemistry, algebra, calculus, biology, etc… This is merely the presentation of what is considered knowledge – and NOT the training of how to comprehend or digest such “knowledge.”
Quote:

In my line of work I use my contacts with others as a way of witnessing Christ thru how I conduct my business, how I talk, how I act, etc. No one is trying to train me or teach me 8 hours a day.

Thats the difference. Scripture is quite clear, especially in Psalm 1, and in other parts, that we are not to receive our training and teaching at the feet of the world... but rather by the Holy Spirit, scripture, the church... and from godly parents.


Yes, but the fact that you are in your “line of work” is indicative that you were educated. You were educated in the principles of Engineering, including all of the Mathematics and Sciences involved. To earn an Engineering degree, you were also trained in the “basics” of English, Government, History, Art, Kinesiology, Communications, Math, and whichever other subjects that your school felt were needed to earn a Bachelor’s degree. It wasn’t this basic knowledge that is “secular” since God created all of this knowledge in the first place! But this educational certificate provided you with greater opportunity to work in a field of engineering.
Quote:

Not one time does scripture ever recommend receiving our training at the feet of the ungodly. But there are plenty of warnings not to.

So... when you, as an adult, go into a mission field (whatever that may be) you go there to make an impact. You're not going there to sit at the feet of the world and soak in it's wisdom so-called.

Why would we expect children to be able to do exactly the opposite?


What if a Christian young person felt the desire in their heart to work as an Electrical Engineer…or a Computer Engineer…or a General Doctor…or a Heart Surgeon…or an Architect…or a Radiologist…etc…? Do you know many “Christian” colleges that have good departments that teach such things? Do we confine all of our young people to Christian schools that teach these things (which I am not even sure that they exist in the first place)? What if they desire to earn the best possible education in such fields? Do we send them to Glad Tidings Christian College and Bible School to become a surgeon?

Regardless of what we want to believe about how secular colleges are supposedly active in their recruiting process of homeschoolers, it is my experience that these schools are extremely competitive. I worked in a “secular” college admissions office as a freshman. My sister-in-law still works in such an office. Most schools consider your SAT/ACT scores, GPA, class rank, level of rank or difficulty of your school/program, application essays, high school standardized exit tests, college entrance exams, amongst several other factors. Some college programs are extremely competitive. I know a student who was rejected from the Engineering school at my Alma Mater for scoring a 24 on his ACT (in which 21 is the national average). Yet this student did not do so well in other criterion for admission. Anyone who decides to homeschool his child through high school must consider this (especially if their child is interested in a discipline that is not taught at most “Christian” colleges).

Yes, God has called us to be good Christians who are prepared to depart this world at any time. But while we wait for the End to come, we are instructed by God to provide for our families. A college diploma can help in that. In fact, you cannot work as an engineer in most states unless you are certified to do so by an accredited agency. The same is true of many fields of study. So, in a sense, we must recognize that there will be some careers that are completely restricted away from students whose parents insist on Christian colleges or universities. We must also be aware of the fact that most schools place weight upon the type of school you went to (Was it accredited? How does it rank in your state? What was the student’s rank in his class?).

This is part of the reason that we might NOT homeschool our children in High School. It is our prayer that we will have trained and educated our child enough to prepare him both academically AND spiritually – so that they can stand up as a light in a public high school while also excelling in academics. We will – with God’s help – have taught them to distinguish between the holy and the profane. They will know how to listen to what they are taught and distinguish between truth and lie.
Quote:

The difference is your purpose is to train the ungodly, or teach them, or persuade them. Public schools exist for the soul purpose of training, teaching and persuading young minds. And they are very effective at it.

You go to train... children go to be trained.

And be trained they will be.


Like I said, I don’t believe that children go to school to be trained. It is my responsibility to train them in the ways of the Lord. They go to school in order to be educated. They learn things that deal with subjects like Math, English, Writing and Science. However, I concur that young children face a daunting task because they are not mature enough to tell the difference. However, once a child has grown in the knowledge of the Lord and is equipped enough to properly weigh the information, then I might allow him to enter a public school (in high school).

I just can’t agree with an argument that is based upon a premise that public schools are out to [i]indoctrinate[/i] our children. Their purpose – right or wrong – is to educate. I agree that I would homeschool my children while they are young – and probably through the 8th grade. However, because of the restrictions that might naturally be exhibited toward homeschooled children, I don’t know that I would attempt to homeschool my child in high school. Unless my child wants to become a “career” minister, I do not think that I would send them to a Christian college or university. I believe that Christian colleges and universities can have their purposes, but it is difficult (in my opinion) to obtain a strong education in many, many areas (medical, scientific, engineering, etc...) by limiting your choices to a supposedly "Christian" college or university. While I won't go so far as saying that this is the same as hiding their lights in a bushel, a Christian university might not be the best option for some students.

:-)


_________________
Christopher

 2008/5/30 13:15Profile









 Re:

Quote:
A school, however, is meant to teach educate children in certain subjects.



Not anymore, brother. Those days are long gone. Thats the whole problem with government schools... their agenda. You dont have to look to far to uncover the agenda of the government schools. You can start with the NEA's website... they arent afraid to spell it out for you.

They are no longer about teaching the "3 R's"... they are about training children to think from a worldy ungodly point of view.

How long has it been since you have had any dealings with the public schools?

Krispy

 2008/5/30 15:54









 Re: Isa 8:20...Neh 9:26...Jer 2:8

Are there any on S.I. who'd answer this:


I was wondering if you might furnish me with a Biblical defense of either the neutrality,indifference,command,permission/allowance or otherwise respecting God's will for the christian to send their children to be educated by state/government-run institutions where the teachers and fellow students are for the most part unbelievers,God-haters,anti-Christ and immoral, where hypocrisy abounds and the religion of secular humanism promoted.

PS APOLOGIA - The Greek word meaning "a spoken or written defense." It appears eight times in the New Testament, in the context of people defending their faith or actions by reason and logic.
From Webster's Dictionary: apologia \ap-uh-LOH-jee-uh;-juh\, noun:
A formal defense or justification, especially of one's opinions, position, or actions.
From Websters Dictionary (1828 edition) Apologetic
Defending by words or arguments; excusing; said or written in defense, or by way of apology; as an apologetic essay.
"But sanctify Christ as Lord in your hearts, always being ready to make a defense to everyone who asks you to give an account for the hope that is in you..." 1 Peter 3:15

I ask that before you do answer that you'd please read the question very carefully and answer apologetically as I've asked. Please only do so if you are ABLE. And please do not go off on tangents(syn. digression).

If God has a command or Word for us from His Mind and Spirit I believe most here on S.I. would care to know. As ultimately such is all that really matters. Thanks

 2008/5/30 17:01
wonserwonton
Member



Joined: 2006/11/20
Posts: 59
Longview WA

 Re:

Quote:
They are no longer about teaching the "3 R's"... they are about training children to think from a worldy ungodly point of view.


I can vouch for this, as well. It hasn't been a year since I graduated high school, a public school, mind you, and at the same time I completed my first year of college--also at a secular institution. It wasn't about "reading, 'riting, and 'rithmatic," anymore because the agenda has taken the place of that. Sure, we still learned how to read, write, and compute basic equations, but there's so much else that they push. I took a class called American Government my senior year. This class was and is a graduation requirement in the district I was educated in. I kept finding myself having to sift through the opinions of my teacher to find facts; and when I was done sifting, I discovered two things: not much was left after the opinions were removed, and very few students ever question such things. That was evident when the students got up in front of the class to give a presentation and recited opinions given by the instructor. This didn't just happen in that class; it happened in most of my classes. My tenth grade language arts teacher was a Buddhist. She had fits whenever myself or a friend of mine would share our testimonies of Christ and what He has done for us, even if we were just conversing with each other. Her liberal views and Buddhist beliefs were reflected in some of her lessons, and in the way she taught the district's curriculum.

Public schools are no longer about teaching kids what they need to know to be successful people; public schools are about teaching kids what they need to know to be a certain kind of successful people, and I'm pretty sure it's not a kind that God admires.

Sure, there are some public schools that aren't that way, but you'd be hard pressed to find one.


_________________
Amy King

 2008/5/30 17:46Profile
hmmhmm
Member



Joined: 2006/1/31
Posts: 4991
Sweden

 Re: Should Christian Parents send their kids to public schools?

A short 2 minute video i believe is right on about government education.


[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lq_tcyPV7Vg]The children of Caesar[/url]


_________________
CHRISTIAN

 2008/5/30 18:01Profile









 Re:

The Children of Ceasar...

Yes, this is exactly what I have been trying to say!! Excellent video...

Krispy

 2008/5/30 18:12









 Re:

Anybody watching the national spelling bee? I just watched the homeschooler from California...she's still going. :-D

 2008/5/30 21:31





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