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Discussion Forum : General Topics : Should Christian Parents send their kids to public schools?

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 Re:

Quote:
I went to a church that had a lot of homeschool families in it and the experience wasn't pleasant. While there, I came very close to homeschooling my sons but then I started watching them and really talking with them about how they did it (not that any are on this forum, not unless you are from knoxville, tn!!). The homeschoolers "I" knew were controlling parents, the ability to control seemed to fit right in with homeschooling. These particular people and church controlled EVERY aspect of their child's life. My sons were shunned by these homeschooled kids because they weren't "homeschoolers." They had to learn shunning from somewhere!!! The parents.



Actually, we lived in Maryville & Friendsville when I was attending UT after I got out of the Marines... so I do know a bit about Knoxville. :-)

Most homeschoolers are not like that. But there does tend to be a snobiness among some. But I also find that many non-homeschoolers look at homeschoolers with A LOT of preconceived notions, and so they sometimes look to be offended by homeschoolers.

And as with anything else in life... if you're looking to be offended you will find what you're looking for.

By the way, dont throw my UT education back in my lap... this was before we had kids and even considered homeschooling. I wasnt even saved when I enrolled there. I was saved during my time in Knoxville. Kids came during my studies, and homeschooling came afterwards. :-)

Quote:
This brings me to another reason. I disagree with a statement that we shouldn't send our children to secular universities. Why not? Aren't we called to be light and salt? How can we be when we are constantly hidden in the folds of like-minded people thru christian schools and universities?



83% of Christians entering secular universities reject their Christian faith by graduation. Thats why. I'll find the exact stats if you would like. Ever been in a residence hall? You honestly want to pay to send your kids there? If so... you're nuts.

Why not send them to a sound Christian college?

As for being controlling... hey, we have a calling as Christian parents to be "shade for the children". We are to raise our children in the nurture and admonition of the Lord. Psalm 1 and all of Proverbs give many many warnings about our dealings with the ungodly. It gives much advice to what is wisdom and what is not.

But surprisingly on this forum there are many people who want to ignore clear teachings in scripture and embrace opinions of man. It's very indicative of the sad shape our churches are in today.

Why not send our kids to public schools and secular universities? Because there is a war on for our children. Spiritual warfare is not about finding demons hiding behind pews... it's about about raising our children in such a manner as to not give Satan a foothold.

But unfortunately most Christians today consider good parenting to mean that by 18 their kid isnt in jail, pregnant or dead.

[b]I want more than that for my kids.[/b]

And no one can successfully argue against homeschooling because even the secular universities and colleges recognize that homeschooling is successful and are actively recruiting homeschool students. Christian colleges even more so.

Here in North Carolina do you realize homeschool students are, by law, not allowed to take the same "end of grade" tests as the public school kids? Know why? Because it throws off the results because generally speaking homeschoolers score higher on them. Our Congressman told my wife and I that.

Thats pretty cool.

Krispy

 2008/5/29 18:15









 Re:

Quote:
But what if he has a mother who is living for God, teaching him in the ways of the Lord and praying for him?



Sorry... just not into playing "what if" games. It's a never ending circle and gives me a headache.

8-)

Krispy

 2008/5/29 18:25









 Re:

Quote:

KrispyKrittr wrote:
Quote:
But what if he has a mother who is living for God, teaching him in the ways of the Lord and praying for him?



Sorry... just not into playing "what if" games. It's a never ending circle and gives me a headache.

8-)

Krispy



Daniel 6:16-23

16Then the king commanded, and they brought Daniel, and cast him into the den of lions. Now the king spake and said unto Daniel, Thy God whom thou servest continually, he will deliver thee.

17And a stone was brought, and laid upon the mouth of the den; and the king sealed it with his own signet, and with the signet of his lords; that the purpose might not be changed concerning Daniel.

18Then the king went to his palace, and passed the night fasting: neither were instruments of musick brought before him: and his sleep went from him.

19Then the king arose very early in the morning, and went in haste unto the den of lions.

20And when he came to the den, he cried with a lamentable voice unto Daniel: and the king spake and said to Daniel, O Daniel, servant of the living God, is thy God, whom thou servest continually, able to deliver thee from the lions?

21Then said Daniel unto the king, O king, live for ever.

22My God hath sent his angel, and hath shut the lions' mouths, that they have not hurt me: forasmuch as before him innocency was found in me; and also before thee, O king, have I done no hurt.

23Then was the king exceedingly glad for him, and commanded that they should take Daniel up out of the den. So Daniel was taken up out of the den, and no manner of hurt was found upon him, because he believed in his God.




 2008/5/29 18:32









 Re: SOCIALIZATION

SOCIALIZATION
It has been of great interest to me to observe the critics of the fastgrowing Home Education movement. It has been my experience that one of the most common accusations made to parents wishing to educate their children at home is that the children will suffer due to lack of socialization. By this the concerned critic
of Home Education is voicing the fear that Johnny may end up socially retarded if he does not rub shoulders with enough of his peers and may not know how to get along in society as a well adjusted personality.

Many voices of this school of thought are convinced that maximum exposure for Johnny to friends and activities is an absolute necessity for his well being and has a far reaching impact on his ability to get along in a complex world.

Not surprisingly many Christians have obligingly
accepted this theory as fact and have diligently
sought to socialize their children. Most have found out to their chagrin that once their child has been properly socialized they have more than they bargained for.

Instead of producing Spurgeons, Moodys, Hudson Taylors and the like(you add your own names to the list),socialization has largely produced carnal worldly feeling oriented Laodicean Christian youth.

Even the pagan world has authoritatively documented the deleterious effects of television on young minds.Yet Christians are still heard to not only defend it but they maintain one is depriving his family if he destroys the family altar (television). My dear Christian friend your TV is indeed socializing your youngsters but in a way you will profoundly regret in
years to come.

How about friends? Surely our children should have many of them, especially if they are found in church and at our Christian school. May I respectfully point out that our churches and Christian schools in this country are filled with hardhearted youth whose hearts are clearly inclined toward this world. Because a youngster is involved in a church youth group or Christian school does not guarantee the impeccability of his character! Many teen girls and boys over the
years have confessed to having had intimate relations,even in the church building while activities are going on in other parts of the building! Christian school students use alcohol and dope. They lose their purity; they kill their babies. All of the wickedness you observe in the mass media has been commited and
confessed to by many in church youth groups and
enrolled in Christian schools.

How a child behaves in and adjusts to his family can be a possible forecast of how he will function in the world around him as an adult. This is precisely why it is so vital that he be taught to immediately and sweetly obey authority, learn the lessons of self-control over his flesh and feelings and learn how to lovingly interract with his siblings. He will learn to function as a self-controlled responsible adult who realizes from his childhood training that giving vent to excess and following feelings create problems.

Witness an early agrarian America with its rural
economy which, in many instances, saw families living in comparative isolation from their nearest neighbors.Education and socialization of necesssity took place within the confines of the immediate family circle.Responsibility and Godly character thus formed produced many a charactered leader.
God providentially places children in specific homes.Their problem by and large is not their old fashioned parents but their unwillingness to obey Godly authority. A rebel may well find comfort, acceptance and solace in the arms of uncharactered friends but he has bypassed his primary responsibility. To put it another way, a child properly socialized with his parents and siblings is a far better prepared candidate for marriage and ministry than one who is primarily socialized with friends. Instead of obligingly going along with whatever direction your child is heading and instead of accepting his circle
of friends and activities you must choose them for him based on your scripture enlightened discernments.

It is about time some Christian parents said to
another set of parents, Our kids are not good for one another.

This is not unloving. That is love and genuine caring.We must very carefully gauge the effect children have on one another.

Scripture warns us that evil character is contagious (I Corinthians 15:33; Haggai 2:12-13; Proverbs 22:24-25). If your child has one friend with evil character he will very likely be infected with that character in most cases. You must very carefully choose his friends and associations and just as closely monitor his activities. The chief friends of a child ought to be his Godly parents and secondarily his Godly siblings. Other friends and associations
should have a lesser priority.

To some these ideas seem narrow and restrictive. This is true. So are the Scriptures. In fact the Scriptures picture the Godly life in that way and yet it is filled with happiness peace and joy.

Whereas worldly Christians are busily socializing
their children to their detriment and exposing them to all manner of things this world has to offer, the "narrowminded" agrees with Paul: "I would have you wise unto that which is good and simple concerning evil" (Romans 16:19). Ask Jacob and Leah how happy they were when their daughter Dinah was socialized!(Genesis 34:15). Read the Old Testament closely and see how God was pleased when Israel became socialized with the pagan nations around her. Israel's many
compromises and her ultimate apostasy should stand out as clear warnings for us today (I Corinthians 10:11).

Noah appeared to the world of his day as a religious fanatic yet his family alone was saved. Abraham kept his family at arm's length from his Canaanite neighbors and their filthy abominations. Jonadab refused to obey the social planners and polite society of his day, maintained a strict lifestyle for himself
and his family and had the joy of looking over the ramparts of Heaven 400 years later to see his
descendants still living separated lives (Jeremiah 35:10) uncontaminated by the world.

It is my prayer that you see the two contrasting
principles in all of this. It is the satanically
dominated world which says socialize in this manner,whereas it is the Word of God that says SEPARATE!

(the above article was found in my e-mail inbox)

 2008/5/29 21:53
MaryJane
Member



Joined: 2006/7/31
Posts: 3057


 Re:

greetings

I really like this article about socialization. I agreed with all of it. I especially loved the last line
________________________________________

It is the satanically
dominated world which says socialize in this manner,whereas it is the Word of God that says SEPARATE!
_________________________________________

God Bless
MJ

 2008/5/29 22:13Profile









 Re: EDUCATE

What follows is an e-mail I sent to a number of professing christians. Many of those professing christians were "pastors" of "churches".

I thought it would be an appropriate place to post it as this thread is addressing these very same issues. I post this in hopes that it may serve some here in their pursuit of His Holy will in sanctifying those children given them by God in the area of education.

I believe I have plainly stated previously on this thread what I understand the mind of God to be on the matter.

I do hope that this serves to further clarify those claims from God's Holy infallible Word.

Here is the question I put forth:

I was wondering if you might furnish me with a Biblical defense of either the neutrality,indifference,command,permission/allowance or otherwise respecting God's will for the christian to send their children to be educated by state/government-run institutions where the teachers and fellow students are for the most part unbelievers,God-haters,anti-Christ and immoral, where hypocrisy abounds and the religion of secular humanism promoted.
Please reply ASAP if able,
______________
PS APOLOGIA - The Greek word meaning "a spoken or written defense." It appears eight times in the New Testament, in the context of people defending their faith or actions by reason and logic.
From Webster's Dictionary: apologia \ap-uh-LOH-jee-uh;-juh\, noun:
A formal defense or justification, especially of one's opinions, position, or actions.
From Websters Dictionary (1828 edition) Apologetic
Defending by words or arguments; excusing; said or written in defense, or by way of apology; as an apologetic essay.
"But sanctify Christ as Lord in your hearts, always being ready to make a defense to everyone who asks you to give an account for the hope that is in you..." 1 Peter 3:15

I received but two responses. All others chose not to reply.

Here is one response from a "pastor" I received. Note: I knew him quite well as we attended where he "pastored" for awhile. We had him in our home and he had us in his. He was a young married man of 26 years of age. A fine aspiring,intelligent,friendly young man indeed. Yet,in my opinion he was not qualified to be an elder/pastor.

Hey _______: Thanks for your email. You ask a good question, although the innuendos (overtones) in your question indicate you aren't really asking a question. Kinda like me (A Presbyterian) asking a Baptist, "You don't REALLY believe that every single person in the NT was Immersed DO YOU?" Not a question to learn, but a question to make a statement, and possibly provoke an argument. I would caution you with the exhortation of Hebrews, "make every effort to live in peace with all men and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord. See to it that no one misses THE GRACE OF GOD, and that no bitter root grows up to cause trouble and defile many." It is my observation that many Christian parents today are primarily motivated by bitterness (some bordering on hatred) of public schools, and can only define their beliefs re. education in OPPOSITION to public education. The "education question" has torn apart churches. (Rom. 14:10) James says, "the wisdom that comes from heaven is first of all pure, then peace loving, considerate, submissive, full of mercy and good fruit, impartial, and sincere. Peacemakers who sow in peace raise a harvest of righteousness." (3:17-18) Whatever educational process we pursue, it should equip us to love God and to love our neighbor. The RP Testimony brings some wisdom on the question of education, "In the providence of God public schools have provided great social benefits. Yet in serving a highly pluralistic society they have attempted to be religiously and morally "neutral" which is sinful. To a large extent instruction is based on a secular, humanistic philosophy which ignores God and sees man's welfare as the highest good. Local schools vary widely, however, according to the standards of the community and quality of the teachers." (Mt. 12:30; 2 Sa. 23:3-4) "Where necessary and POSSIBLE, Christian parents should cooperate in supporting or establishing schools whose curriculum present a biblical world and life view, and place their children in them. This requires maintenance of the highest academic quality along with Christian orientation in every subject and activity." "We reject any attempt by the state to force a secular, humanistic philosophy on Christian schools. Parents should take care to counteract any unbiblical teaching given to their children, whether in public or Christian schools. As youth increase in their knowledge and discernment, the home and the Church should help them to examine what is presented in school, to distinguish between God-given truths and human theories, and to integrate the facts learned with a Christian view of man and the universe." (Reformed Presbyterian Testimony 24.31-34) Both my wife and I are products of both Christian schooling and homeschooling. I had a very positive, Christ-centered, church-centered home education experience. Sue observed friends who had a very backward, charismatic, anti-intellectual, legalistic home education experience. Today they are completely unable to excel in the REAL world, with little ability to out-think the opposition or present a robust argument for truth. Both of us have friends who today hate their parents, the church, and God BECAUSE of their home education experience - an experience which focused on outward rules rather than hearts (1 Sa. 16:7). We both heartily agree that it is a HUGE mistake to equate a particular FORM (outward) of education with God's Biblical standards for education -- which are largely RESULT-oriented (inward, eg. 2 Sa. 23:3-4). This world is too "messy," and education is too grand an endeavor to reduce it to FORM. It is interesting to me that the Bible actually has very little to say about the day-to-day form of education, but rather places responsibility on the shoulders of parents (Deut. 6:1-6; Eph. 6:4), who will be accountable to God for how they acquitted themselves in the education of their children. Clearly the writer of Psalm 119 had others than his mother and father teaching him. (Ps. 119:99). Daniel and his friends were trained in the language and literature of the Babylonians, (Dan. 1:4) and though Daniel had to take stands against those teaching him, he was able to use his knowledge and influence for the glory of God, even in Babylon. Paul called on his extensive "secular" education when rubbing shoulders with the Ph.D.s of his day (Acts 17). He said he became "all things to all people, that by all means I might save some." (1 Co. 9:22) Paul forbade the Corinthians from associating with sexually immoral and unrepentant brothers, "not at all meaning the sexually immoral of this world, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world." (1 Cor. 5:10) As I grow in Christ, I'm endeavoring to define education by what it IS, not by what it's NOT. I want to help conscientious parents do what God has called them to do raise up their children in the nurture and admonition of the Lord. When it comes to educating children, how grateful I am for God's tremendous outpouring of grace. I'm thankful we don't need to "get it all right" to be pleasing to our Father, who loves us not because of our performance, but because we are "in Christ." ________________

My reply to the "pastor":

__________,
That God our Father,by,through,and for our
LORD Jesus the Christ's sake,cares for us(1
Pet.5:7),succors us(Heb.2:18),comforts us(2
Cor.1:4),knows us(Num.16:5;2Tim.2:19),prays for
us(John 17:9;Heb.7:25),and keeps us(1Pet.1:5)I am
eternally grateful,humbled and awed. That He calls me a son(1John 3:1)of God,and is become a Father to me(2Cor.6:18;2Sam.7:14)rejoices my heart and satisfies my soul. If we take His words in our mouth to others,may we tremble as we do(Isa.66:2),lest we become men-pleasers and not prophets of God as Ezekiel (Ezek.33:32,33).
Recommended article:
http://christianunplugged.com/tozercross.htm
That God would have you acknowledge my electronic mail I am thankful as well as hopeful. As far as the content of the electronic mail in the way it was stated,it served its purpose.
You did not furnish me with "a Biblical defense of either the neutrality,indifference,command,permission/allowance or otherwise respecting God's will for the christian to send their children to be educated by state/government-run institutions where the teachers and fellow students are for the most part unbelievers,God-haters,anti-Christ and immoral, where hypocrisy abounds and the religion of secular humanism promoted". Nor did you attempt to dispute wether or no I portrayed an accurate picture of the environment of those places in question. I ended by asking you to
"Please reply ASAP if able". If you were not able,you should have just said so.
You then judged my motives by saying " Not a question to learn, but a question to make a statement, and possibly provoke an argument." You then proceeded to caution and exhort me
by using God's Holy Word quoting from Hebrews. A poor application indeed seeing you did not even refute any gainsaying (to deny or declare not to be true what another says; to controvert; to dispute; applied to persons, or to propositions, declarations or facts)of mine and in consideration that while "following peace with all men," we are not so to seek to please them, as to make God's will and our sanctification a
secondary object,the latter must be our first aim
having our conscience clear before both God and
man(Gal.1:10).

You then proceeded to give me your observation rather than God's Law-Word on the matter. This is similar to one of the errors contributing to the breakdown of the judicial system of the U.S. where what is called "case law" is practiced in the place of constitutional law. I also see a relation to what is called "situational ethics" albeit in a somewhat different sphere.
You then proceed to make a statement as though it is fact "The "education question" has torn
apart churches". And quote Rom. 14:10 and James
3:17-18 as if these support your conclusions. And
again you follow these verses with your own words
"Whatever educational process we pursue, it
should equip us to love God and to love our neighbor" as if God's Word in the preceeding verses prove such to be so. Thus far you have taken texts out of their context to use as prooftexts.

You then proceed to appeal to man again. A Testimony of a "denomination",which I need not remind you that Scripture repudiates denominationalism. But again,this is not to your credit, as these men you appeal to do not appeal to the Scriptures but rather one another.You say that "The RP Testimony brings some wisdom on the question of education." I'd contest that and apply 1 Cor. 1:20 and 1 Cor. 2:14:15 realizing
that the object in view in these verses is Christ and the Gospel. Yet "all things" regarding our duty and responsibility toward God are to be diligently inquired into and that by "sola scriptura". I conclude from their words that they're guilty on this point of being "blind guides leading the blind".
You then proceed to your experience and the experience of others. I will not argue with an experience because experience is no
argument. Yet you do make some assumptions and
apparent allegations. Are we to buy into the lies and excuses men and women give that they "hate their parents, the church, and God BECAUSE of..." as you claim "their home education experience". You may believe and swallow such lies but I am not convinced
that God will(Heb.4:13). The only thing you could say from God's Word on this subject followed next, "It is interesting to me that the Bible actually has very little to say about the day-to-day form of education,but rather places responsibility on the shoulders of parents (Deut. 6:1-6; Eph. 6:4)". You then resort to
your poor prooftexts once again. In Psalm 119:99
David's teachers were the prophets, priests and
Levites, who sat in Moses's chair, and whose lips
ought to have kept knowledge, but who neglected the study of the law, and minded their honours and formalities only of their religion; and so David, who conversed much with the scriptures, by that means became more intelligent than they.

One commentator commented thus on this verse "In short, he means to affirm, that whoever yields himself with docility to God, keeps his thoughts in subjection to his word, and exercises himself
diligently in meditating upon the Law, will thence derive wisdom sufficient for enabling him to consult his own safety in opposition to the stratagems of his enemies, to exercise circumspection requisite for escaping their deceits; and, finally, to match with the most eminent masters through the whole course of
his life. David, however, does not adduce his wisdom,that he may boast of it before the world; but, by his own example, he warns us, that nothing is better for us than to learn at God’s mouth, since those only are perfectly wise who are taught in his school. At the same time, sobriety is here enjoined upon the faithful, that they may not seek for wisdom elsewhere
than from God’s word, and that ambition or curiosity may not incite them to vain boasting. In short, all are here recommended to behave themselves with modesty and humility, that no man may claim to himself such knowledge as elevates him above the Divine Law; but that all men, however intelligent, may willingly yield
themselves to the lessons of heavenly wisdom revealed in the Divine Word. When he says, that he kept God’s statutes, he teaches us what kind of meditation it is of which we have spoken, to let us know that he did not coldly philosophies upon God’s precepts, but devoted himself to them with earnest affection".

You then appeal to exceptional men in the Scriptures as Daniel the prophet and Paul the apostle. As if the "historical narrative" concerning these men is an equalizer to attest to God's condoning of children being sent to the ravenous wolves and educational bureaucrats fueled by powerful teachers’ unions.

You continue with 1 Cor. 5:10. I will only comment upon this by noting the distinction between "associating" and "koinonia" and "instruction or counsel". Also bearing in mind the differences and treatment of both adult and child as the Scripture addresses and delineates upon each.
"Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. For what partnership does righteousness have with lawlessness? And what fellowship does light have with darkness? And what agreement does Christ have with Belial? Or what part does a believer have with an unbeliever? And what agreement does a temple of God have with idols? For you are a temple of the living God, even as God said, "I will" dwell in them and "walk among them,and I will be their God, and they shall be My people."
(Ref.Lev. 26:12; Ezek. 37:27)
Because of this, "come out from among them" "and be separated," says the Lord, "and do not touch the unclean thing," and I will receive you.(Ref.Isa.52:11)
"And I will be a Father to you, and you will be sons"and daughters to Me, says the Lord Almighty." (2 Cor.6:14-18) (Ref. 2 Sam. 7:8, 14; Isa.43:6)
I am thankful as well that "we don't need to
"get it all right" to be pleasing to our Father, who loves us not because of our performance, but because we are "in Christ.""
I despise arguing for arguments sake as I do the
display of knowledge for knowledge sake,yet for truth I am commited to die for as souls lie in the balance.Our children are entrusted to us,may we do them right by God. Recommended article:
http://www.spurgeon.org/~phil/mather/dut-par.htm

Would to God that you and I humble ourselves before God, putting our hand over our mouth if His Spirit has not enlightened us or sanctified us in any area of our lives or understanding, that we be not guilty of taking our LORD'S Name in vain.
Please read with discernment the following brief and humble reply I received from a seasoned saint and reformed pastor in his 60's who has been(for many years)and is serving the LORD. He received the exact same(excluding your name of course)electronic mail I sent you asking
that he furnish me with a Biblical defense of this issue. He wrote:
From: "______"
To: "__________"
Subject: Re: APOLOGIA
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 20:54:41 -0600

________,

Sorry it took me a couple of days to answer you. As far as I can tell I could not do what you asked, God did say of Abraham that he knew he would teach his children Gen 18:19.
Ultimately we are responsible for our children in
every aspect of their lives as long as they are under our care.

_________

________,I do earnestly yearn for, and hope I have kept up, an irenic spirit here, as I do earnestly contend for the faith once for all delivered unto the saints.
FYI-
"Educational leaders like John Dewey saw the public schools, often called the “common” schools, as the mechanism for indoctrinating children into a new democratic faith. The worldviews and eccentricities of the various ethical and national backgrounds would be
erased and a new melting pot of Americans would
emerge. Dewey, the most influential shaper of the
public schools in America, understood that the success of his effort would require children to be liberated from the prejudices and values of their parents.
In his book, A Common Faith, Dewey advocated
a radically secular vision for the public schools and the larger public culture. His concept of a humanistic faith, stripped of all supernatural claims, doctrines,and theological authorities, would replace Christianity as the dominant culture-shaping worldview. “Here are all the elements for a religious faith that shall not be confined to sect, class, or race,” he claimed. “Such a faith has always been the
common faith of mankind. It remains for us to make it explicit and militant.” (Dr. Albert Mohler)

It has taken longer than Dewey expected, but this
secularist faith is certainly explicit and militant now.
_________

His brief reply to me:

__________: Thanks for your email. I think that after your second email I better understand your intention in emailing. And it is appreciated. As I recall saying quite a few times, I agree with your intellectual position, and with your thorough documentation from Scripture. Christian parents raise Christians. Pagans raise pagans. The church needs to be bound together in TRUTH and LOVE. I appreciate the careful logic of your emails. ____________

I do hope this was profitable to some on S.I.

 2008/5/29 23:49









 Re: EDUCATION CONFESSION

Biblical Policy on Keeping Covenant With God in the Education of Our Children

By Dr. Greg L. Bahnsen

As a confession of our faith, testimony to the world,and instruction to all true believers, the elders of this church have determined to record here our heartfelt and Biblically based conviction that the Lord has appointed to parents the responsibility and final authority to secure, guide and control the education of their children, that they might be trained regarding this world and in all areas of life
to think God's thoughts after Him and walk in all His ways.

Man was created, as God's likeness and for God's
glory, to study, subdue and develop the world in which God placed him (Gen. 1:26-28). Naturally, from the very beginning, it was a task which belonged to parents to instill this perspective in their children and help them to pursue it.

Ethical rebellion against God has resulted in a curse on mankind (Gen. 3:17-19) which is experienced not only spiritually (Rom. 8:5-8; Eph. 2:1-4) but also intellectually (Rom. 1:21-22; 1 Cor. 2:14; Eph.4:17-18), and which introduces an unavoidable antithesis between those antagonistic to God and those who belong to the promised Savior (Gen. 3:15).

The task of pursuing proper knowledge of the world and developing a God-glorifying culture therein thus encounters tremendous obstacles and distortions,making it imperative that parents educate their children within the perspective and power of God's revelation and grace. The redemption which Christ has secured for us not only spiritually saves us from the wrath to come, but also delivers us from intellectual
futility and foolish reasoning in our methods and
learning about the world in which we presently live.

Genuine knowledge of any subject whatsoever begins with reverence and submission to God (Prov. 1:7),particularly the fundamentals and philosophy which adhere to the Lord Jesus Christ rather than the fallen world or human traditions (Col. 2:8; 1 Tim. 6:20). It is the word of God which sets apart His people in the truth (John 17:17). Thus neutrality in education is not only impossible (Matt. 12:30), but immoral (Jas.4:4). Accordingly, the aim of Christian parents must
be to encourage their children to "bring every thought captive to the obedience of Christ" (2 Cor. 10:5), "in whom are deposited all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge" (Col. 2:3). Only if they are first disciples of Christ will they know the truth and enjoy real freedom (John 8:31-32).

Therefore, from the very beginning of history, then especially with the introduction of man's rebellion against God, and as well in light of the fundamental nature of any genuine knowledge, it is a parental duty to train and educate their children, regardless of the subject matter, in the nurture of the Lord and the light of His revelation (Eph. 6:4; Prov. 5:1-2; Ps.36:9; 119:105, 130).

The responsibility rehearsed here has been part of the confession of faith of God's people from the earliest days, indeed a primary application of the first and great commandment (Deut. 6:4-5; cf. Matt. 22:37-38).It constitutes a central element in what it means for those who are saved to keep covenant with God: "And these words which I command you this day shall be upon
your heart, and you shall teach them diligently unto your children" - constantly and consistently, in every time and place, covering all the spheres of human thought, activity and living (Deut. 6:6-9). Note is taken that this responsibility has been assigned directly by God to parents, rather than any other institution of society.

Regardless, then, of whatever children learn - from math and science to history, social studies,
literature and the arts - parents have a God-given duty to see to it that their children learn it, as much as is possible (given the resources and opportunities available to their parents), with the perspective and application of the Christian worldview as derived from God's revelation. It is and shall be the policy of this church by instruction, preaching and pastoral care to inculcate this educational
responsibility in our parents, directing and helping them to walk in God's gracious covenant as faithful disciples of Christ.

 2008/5/30 0:01









 Re:

Quote:
But I also find that many non-homeschoolers look at homeschoolers with A LOT of preconceived notions, and so they sometimes look to be offended by homeschoolers.


Maybe this is true for some but I had no preconceived notions before I met these people. I didn't know anything about homeschoolers before I went to that church. Like I said, I'm sure all aren't like the ones I went to church with.

Quote:
83% of Christians entering secular universities reject their Christian faith by graduation. Thats why. I'll find the exact stats if you would like. Ever been in a residence hall? You honestly want to pay to send your kids there? If so... you're nuts.


I don't need the exact stats, I know what you are saying. But I see it free a different perspective. My first philosophy teacher was a die-hard atheist and I left with a lump in my throat a few times. You may not agree and/or I may not explain this correctly but what I saw in that class were kids who came from Christian homes and yet who didn't know who God was. It was kinda like watching the seven sons of Sceva in real time and the demon said, "Jesus I know and Paul I know but who are you?" We have to go in the Jesus we know. And since they didn't know Him, they turned to the world but where is the trust in Scripture that they'll return? Proverbs 22.6

Quote:
By the way, dont throw my UT education back in my lap... this was before we had kids and even considered homeschooling. I wasnt even saved when I enrolled there. I was saved during my time in Knoxville. Kids came during my studies, and homeschooling came afterwards.


No reason to explain to me, I judge you not. I think you know that I wouldn't do that anyway.

Quote:
But unfortunately most Christians today consider good parenting to mean that by 18 their kid isnt in jail, pregnant or dead.


Where do you get these statistics? Because I don't know any Christian parents like that and I'm not like that. That sounds like homeschooling indoctrination. lol (wink)

Quote:
And no one can successfully argue against homeschooling...


You'll get no argument from me. You asked why people choose not to homeschool and I responded with why, not an argument.

Quote:
But surprisingly on this forum there are many people who want to ignore clear teachings in scripture and embrace opinions of man. It's very indicative of the sad shape our churches are in today.


That's what gets me about you. You clearly love the Lord and I don't know what you are like in real life but sometimes on here, you come off with these pompous sayings that position you above everyone else's walk with the Lord and if I may say so, it seems as if you judge other people's walk. Maybe they aren't as far along in the Lord as you are but at least they are on here trying to learn and grow. I'm not trying to pick a fight with you, Krispy.

I grew up with a man of God (pastor) who taught, "Give them as much time as God has given you."
.....How long has it taken God to get you where you are?
.....Is He finished with you yet?
.....Have you reached perfection in understanding all Scripture?

Lovingly, I say that sometimes you come off like you have indeed reached that pinnacle but maybe this is just me and it's four in the morning and I'm more bolder than usual because I can't sleep!!

Believe it or not, I love the Lord too! I also believe that so does the majority on this forum. [edit: but of course, I'm probably wrong... as usual!!]

Love in Christ and God bless you, Krispy

 2008/5/30 4:21









 Re:

Quote:
Lovingly, I say that sometimes you come off like you have indeed reached that pinnacle but maybe this is just me and it's four in the morning and I'm more bolder than usual because I can't sleep!!



Lisa... I'm not sure why, but it seems you and I have been sparring a lot lately. I dont mean to do that. I think sometimes it's my own fault because a lot of times I start off addressing someone specifically (in this case, you)... and then end up making general statements not aimed at anyone in particular... just general observations.

The problem is, because I started off addressing someone specifically, that someone takes [b]everything[/b] I wrote as being pointed at them.

In my last post this is exactly what happened. About half way thru my post I ceased talking directly to you, and began making general observations and comments.

In NO WAY did I mean to say that you, Lisa, ignore scripture and base your beliefs on opinions, etc. And I apologize for not being more clear.

I know you're serious about the Lord. I dont know you personally (tho apparently we were neighbors at one point!), but I dont get the impression from you that you consider good parenting to be getting your kids to age 18 alive.

But I do know and have observed many in the church who DO in fact act that way. They put on a good show at church, but they are more concerned about the new Indiana Jones movie than they are about helping smuggle Bibles into Burma. Their kids act no different than the world... but hey, at least they arent in jail! (just means they've never been caught)

So yea, I started out talking to you, but I transitioned from you to making general statements... and from your perspective I can see how you would take my comments as being "pompous". However, if you remove yourself from what I said, and take it as it was intended... I dont think they are that pompous at all.

If Ravenhill said it... we would call him "brilliant". If Krispy says it... it's "pompous".

After I'm dead and gone perhaps someone will consider me "brilliant"! lol... :-P

Anyway, Lisa, I want to say that I have a very high regard and respect for you and what you bring to this forum. We dont always agree, but thats ok.

BTW... a quick search of all of the apologies I've had to make to folks on this forum should put to rest any impressions you may have that I consider myself to be some sort of spiritual giant. No, where ever people are on this forum in their walk with the Lord... I'm quite certain they are probably farther along than I am.

Krispy

 2008/5/30 8:30









 Re:

Quote:
But surprisingly on this forum there are many people who want to ignore clear teachings in scripture and embrace opinions of man. It's very indicative of the sad shape our churches are in today.



This is something I said... I wont apologize for it. All I can do is point to the threads about Todd Bentley as proof. I was watching a video of this guy just about an hour ago, and how anyone can say this is a move of God... I just dont understand.

But there are those on this forum who have tried to defend it. The only way you can defend it is to completely ignore scripure.

So no... what I said is true, and it's not judgemental.

(Lets not turn this into another Todd Bentley thread!)

Krispy

 2008/5/30 8:38





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