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Discussion Forum : General Topics : Oh, how the mighty have fallen! The terrible fall of Paul Cain.

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 Re: chadster: mike Bickle and Paul Cain

I was simply relating that I entirely trust Mike's character. I would trust him with my money, my children, and my life, if he gave me his word.[I will trust Jesus only with my soul.]

He acted with integrity in the issues with Bob Jones, and Paul Cain, and I believe that he desired them to be restored, and also acted wisely in a manner that would protect the body at the same time. That does not mean that I agree with everything he does or oversees. I personally do not endorse IHOP, but that is another issue entirely, and does not affect my respect or fellowship with him.

 2008/5/23 21:16

Joined: 2006/1/8
Posts: 58



I left you a couple of PM's and would appreciate it if you would consider responding.

 2008/5/24 11:03Profile


I take great offense at the way you generalize and say "these IHOP people" and put them all in the same boat...that is blantantly unjust! God has raised up IHOP which has been instrumental in raising up houses of prayer all over the world which are filled with people who have a passion for interceding and seeking God. It is a gross injustice to flippantly make such statements and discredit the entire ministry just becasue a few who were associated with it have fallen into sin. I assure you the people of IHOP are NOT on a forum like this bashing others, they're hidden in a prayer room, crying out to God 24/7 to purify His bride and to glorify the name of Jesus.

Thats all fine and good, but their core doctrines are simply unscriptural... which makes them false teachers. Period.

I wont apologize for offending you on that point. You're not offended by me, you're offended by God's Word. If it's an apology you desire, then seek one from God.


 2008/5/26 7:51

Joined: 2007/10/27
Posts: 86


I wont apologize for offending you on that point. You're not offended by me, you're offended by God's Word. If it's an apology you desire, then seek one from God.

Today, many try to vilify those engaged in the process of exposing lies or seeking truth as "accusers of the brethren, self-appointed heresy hunters, and those possessed by fault-finding demons."

The two most blatant examples of this is in an article by Grace Ministries associate Francis Frangipane and a portion of an article by Rick Joyner.

Listen to these intimidating remarks, hoping to shut the mouths of those who would question:

Frangipane writes:

"Satan has sent forth against the Church an army of fault-finding demons... How is the fault-finding demon manifested? It incites people to spend weeks unearthing old faults or sins in their minister of church... Beguiled by this demon, we circulate its accusations through a congregation or city, stimulating suspi- cion and fear among the people... But this enemy is not limited to attacks on local churches. Its attacks are also citywide and nationwide... To mask the diabolical nature of its activity, this fault-finding demon usually garbs its criticisms in religious clothing. Under pretense of protecting the sheep from a gnat-sized error in doctrine, it forces the flock to swallow a camel-sized error of loveless correction... In the final stage of this process we become crusaders against the other person. No defense he or she offers will satisfy. We are convinced the person is deceived and dangerous; it is up to us to warn others. Yet the truth is we who have succumbed to the fault-finder spirit are the ones who are deceived and dangerous... When the accuser comes, he brings distorted facts and condemnation. Satan never offers hope nor extends grace for repentance. Those who are trapped by this spirit never research the virtues in the organization or person they are attacking. Their goal is not to heal but to harm.

Joyner writes:

"It seems inevitable that the self-appointed 'heresy hunters' will always do more damage to the church than the actual heresies... The free associations and wild overgeneralizations of those whom Jude called 'fault-finders' are a destructive force that has ensnared and destroyed the effective spiritual life and witness of larger portions of the church than possibly any false teachings... We consider the callousness with which we have been prone to falsely accuse one another and over generalize in our references to one another's teaching or ministry a far more serious and destructive matter in the church than these particu- lar doctrines... There are presently two ministries going on before the throne of God: one is intercession and the other is accusation. These are primary distinguishing characteristics of those who are walking by the spirit of Christ and those who are of the spirit of the evil one... Those who are of the nature of the evil one are the 'fault-finders' Jude warned about. 'Free association' and 'overgeneralization' are two of Satan's most effective tools in promoting innuendo and slander in his role as 'the accuser of the brethren.' These are the ones who 'cause divisions.'... One who has right doctrines and a spirit of pride or the accuser will devour far more sheep than those who just have some wrong doctrine."

To accept the above arguments as true would put the Apostle Paul in jeopardy of being accused of having a fault-finding demon. In Galatians 2:11-20, Peter (a Christian brother and Apostle, not a heretic) was teaching false doctrine. Paul knew Peter was incorrect and challenged him publicly on the subject. Until that controversy was resolved, the Judaizers no doubt wondered who that upstart Paul was that was causing division in the church. In II Timothy 2:15-18 Paul again mentions false teachers by name so that believers would not fall prey to their teachings and again in Acts 20:29. Paul kept on warning the church to beware of false doctrine for "three years."

The simple truth is that the New Testament is full of examples of public correction of false teachings both inside and outside the church. The key word in the process set forth in I Thessalonians 5:21 is "test" (from the Greek dokimazo - to test, examine, prove, scrutinize). This test applies to men, messages, and ministries. The basis of the test is the sure objective Word of God, not the unreliable word of today's prophets.

When it comes to such watershed doctrines as the person and work of Jesus Christ, and the accuracy and absolute authority of the Bible, we can and must challenge each other when our teachings denigrate either.

Christians, stop being browbeaten into silence by those who have set themselves up as modern day apostles and prophets.

R.G. Benjamin

 2008/5/26 9:07Profile


Amen... the phrase "touch not the Lord's annointed" used by these people is taken out of context, and then is abused in the worse fashion to cover up gross heresy and lifestyles, and to silence those who would expose them.

...unfortunately for them, some of us are not easily intimidated.

If God be for me, who can be against me?


 2008/5/26 10:00

 Re: Those in glass houses should not throw stones...

In context, especially with Rick Joyner, a book could be written about the error expoused as "anointing". What biblical authority does he have to refute anything to do with revival? Will we be hacked to pieces by the great sword of the holy and brave Knights of Malta he carries?

Really. I'm not kidding.

 2008/5/26 13:49

Joined: 2007/10/25
Posts: 53


I wont apologize for offending you on that point. You're not offended by me, you're offended by God's Word. If it's an apology you desire, then seek one from God.

Brother Krispy,
I think we would all accept the things you say better if you say it with more love brother. Many of the things you say sounds like "i'm right cause the bible says so, period!" It's very childlike Krispy. I'm not saying that going to the bible is childlike, don't misunderstand me, I'm saying the manner in which you go about is childlike.
I have been angry at the church for some time with it's "religiousness," it's "yeast" it's lack of passion for Jesus. I have been deeply disappointed and said a lot of things to other believers out of my passion for truth. These things were true and the truth, but it was done in a manner that wasn't true; it wasn't done in love.
So I thought that all my critisms were wrong and stayed quited for two years. However, a man of God came to our church and essentially said the same things that I had been saying and flipped the church upside down in repentance. People met Jesus deeply. What was the difference between me and that man of God? I had the same message! But didn't have love, that anuish that David Wilkerson so fervently talks about.

So in the end, "He was full of grace and truth." These are two good pillars. If one just has grace, he goes on to say that everything is alright. If one has just truth, then he goes around telling everybody how they are wrong. If one has both.. Well, he'll "walk as Jesus did."
Bless you brother to walk in both grace and truth.

 2008/6/12 23:11Profile

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