| Poster | Thread |
| | Re: | | I think whats on the inside will manifest itlsef on the outside... whether good or bad. So I think it is relevant.
We're not talking about suit and ties here. I mean, when i teach I'm generally wearing a football jersey and jeans. But the Bible has some pretty strong things to say against markings and cuttings, etc. My wife wears ear rings, but the message her ear rings give is much different than a guy with 10 piercings on his face.
An ear ring on a woman is not forbidden in scripture. Scripture does address her heart, saying that she should be more concerned with her inner beauty in Christ than her outward adornment... but it does not forbid a woman to wear jewelry. And my wife has an inner beauty that just takes my breath away, and it enhances the outward beauty she has... which is what attracted me to her all those years ago... before I was saved and mainly concerned about the flesh.
On the other hand, God associates piercings and markings such as we see on this "preacher" with paganism. We are to be seperate and holy unto God, and to avoid ALL appearances of evil. So how do we justify this? We cant.
Even the world will look at this man and say "something isnt right with this...".
And here is two men, Kirkpatrick & Hill, giving their stamp of approval on it. Me personally, I'm not surprised that they would do this, but many people respect their opinions.
Krispy |
|  2008/5/8 8:58 | | RobertW
Member
Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
St. Joseph, Missouri
| | Re: | | Quote:
The only revival the
apostate church in America is going to get is a counterfeit revival
with counterfeit signs and wonders! Go see your gold dust, angel
feathers, and diamonds that fall from the ceiling! Go yield
yourselves to your animal demons! Go writhe like snakes! Go get
hands laid on you and knocked over by that preacher whos
addicted to Internet pornography! This is your revival, apostate
Babylon! And yet you all remain in sin, wickedness, and
compromise such as never before. The earth itself is groaning in
pain under the weight of your transgressions."
-Josef Urban
I have been giving a lot of thought lately to the connection between compromise and the conscience. When the conscience is troubled there is no way for a person to truly preach with conviction. So where is the 'unction' coming from; or is there any unction at all?
My other thought is along the whole piercing thing and tattoo's. I understand if a person comes to Christ and have gotten many of these things; but I am sorely troubled by folk getting piercings and tattoos almost as if it is a ministry tool. Where are the days when folk still believed in being separate from the world? Why do so many in ministry- especially youth 'type' ministry see the need to continually try to beat the world at their own worldliness? Have we gone so far into sin and iniquity that none now live that remember the former days of separation and holiness?
When I see pins and bolts and nuts sticking out of a man's face the last thing I am thinking of is Jesus Christ. I am thinking of anything [i]but[/i] Jesus. As the oft quoted saying goes... "If they show you who they are believe them!"
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Robert Wurtz II
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| | 2008/5/8 9:53 | Profile | hmmhmm
Member
Joined: 2006/1/31
Posts: 4994
Sweden
| | Re: | | Quote:
RobertW wrote:
Why do so many in ministry- especially youth 'type' ministry see the need to continually try to beat the world at their own worldliness? Have we gone so far into sin and iniquity that none now live that remember the former days of separation and holiness?
There is no "wall" of separation anymore between the world and the church, you cant really see a difference.
What makes me most worried is this, if we accept these mens teachings, prophesies, then we can just as well accept the mormons and jehovas witnesses to, there is NO WHATSOEVER difference in mormons outside bible revelations and this mans.
I belive we are seeing prophesies in scripture come true before our eyes.
2Th 2:3-4 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
The temple today is the church, some people have exsalted themself above what God has said and are in rebellion to God.
And the "trend" today is to appose anything that has through out the church history been considered real Christianity.
So like so many have said we need to warn people about these false prophets who fool people away from the truth.
2Co 11:13-15 [i]These people are false apostles. They have fooled you by disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. But I am not surprised! Even Satan can disguise himself as an angel of light. So it is no wonder his servants can also do it by pretending to be godly ministers. In the end they will get every bit of punishment their wicked deeds deserve.[/i]
NLT
_________________
CHRISTIAN
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| | 2008/5/8 10:05 | Profile |
| | Re: | | And the "trend" today is to appose anything that has through out the church history been considered real Christianity.
.........................................
Amen Robert, that wall should as it did for years, keep the government out of the churches business and the love of Christ and love for HIS righteousness should spill over into the state affairs and laws through the Christian righteousness in them being envolved in their communities, but it's not anymore. Why? Because narrow is the way and the Bible said it would happen. If in a democracy majority rules and the majority goes the way of cain, go figure right.
2 Tim 4:3-5
3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
5 But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.
KJV
1 Tim 1:10-11
10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;
11 According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.
KJV
Rom 16:17
17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.
KJV
2 John 1:9
9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:
KJV
1 Tim 4:16
16 Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.
KJV
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| | 2008/5/8 12:13 | | RobertW
Member
Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
St. Joseph, Missouri
| | Re: | | I guess the question I have about Revival (keep in mind I am very much for revival), is- "What are we wanting to revive back to?" Some see revival as weeping for sin and repentance. Some see it as manifestations of some sort or the other. What are we asking for when we ask for revival? Are we asking God to get us back to a spiritual state in which His will and His concerns- become our will and our concerns? It seems to me than when revival really hits folk are going to get about the Master's business.
People want power- but what for? Do they desire an Isaiah 6 experience that so changes them that they declare, "Here am I Lord- send me!" That is what we need today. I see people going to hell by the droves it seems and so few people willing to really step up and move into ministry to help them. This is especially true in nursing homes and hospitals. These people are dying and often without God. They have been serving God their whole lives now (in some cases) and now they have little or no real fellowship at all with believers. I have been at the bedside of several dying people this year. I have watched them breath their last breath. Where are the Christians? For God's sake! Where is everyone?
_________________
Robert Wurtz II
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| | 2008/5/8 12:32 | Profile | Compton
Member
Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 2732
| | Re: | | Oh Robert...you have hit the nail my friend.
Quote:
Why do so many in ministry- especially youth 'type' ministry see the need to continually try to beat the world at their own worldliness? Have we gone so far into sin and iniquity that none now live that remember the former days of separation and holiness?
In the 18th and 19th century the methodist grew their churches in this country by excluding the unrepentant sinners from their congregations. They evangelized but they did not confuse outreach to the world with building the body of Christ. In so doing the church leaders obeyed the call of separation. Such hedges seems restrictive to humanistic wisdom, but this Godly wisdom is precisely what allowed the church to grow. It preserved that vital holy environment that purposefully winnowed out the overly-sensitive seeker. This very hedge was heartily welcomed by the sorry sinner who wanted to leave the world, to join the new man, and to learn how to carry their own cross in experimental religion.
Today, the only experimental religion being pursued with all our resources of heart and pocketbook is experimenting with the unrepentant sinner in our churches. What music does he like? What clothes look 'authentic' to him? How can we earn the esteem of his own opinion? What flavor of coffee would make him feel more welcome? In fact, to modern ears, the very idea that we should exclude the sinner altogether from communion in the church, in a decent and humble manner according to scripture, is not even considerable.
The experiment of making the Gospel more sinner affirming is called 'being relevant'. Now this sincere, but terriblly misguided program of flirting with the unsaved does successfully grow the organization machinery of the church but alas, it neglects the disciples...that is it excludes the true church. It has utterly laid waste to Christianity in America. Too bad that the term 'replacement theology' has been taken, because this desire to preach what is relevant rather then what is righteous, to preach what is useful rather then what is truthful is the ultimate replacement.
O town full of commotion, O city of tumult and revelry? Your slain were not killed by the sword, nor did they die in battle. All your leaders have fled together; they have been captured without using the bow. All you who were caught were taken prisoner together...
Let's remember to pray for the sincere people in these places.
MC
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Mike Compton
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| | 2008/5/8 12:54 | Profile |
| | Re: | | Comp... I could not agree with you more. Amen!
Krispy |
| | 2008/5/8 13:08 | | RobertW
Member
Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
St. Joseph, Missouri
| | Re: | | Quote:
Today, the only experimental religion being pursued with all our resources of heart and pocketbook is experimenting with the unrepentant sinner in our churches.
I think this is one of the reasons why lip service is offered to repentance and real revival. It is also why there is an 'advantage' (sadly) to having a lukewarm church. Revival, by default, will reduce the numbers initially. The unrepentant will roll out. However, if the revival is genuine then an effort will be made to get about the work and the church would fill up again.
Moreover, there are enough weary and vexed folk that truly want to see God move and the people live righteously that if a church would open it's doors with that ''marketing strategy" it would fill up. Just looking at it from a sheer carnal perspective. So it don't make sense to continue in lukewarmness no matter how you (ed. anyone that is) look at it.
_________________
Robert Wurtz II
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| | 2008/5/8 14:36 | Profile | RobertW
Member
Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
St. Joseph, Missouri
| | Re: | | I meant to add to the previous post that when I was a sinner and turned to Christ, I was ashamed of the things I used to do and who I used to be. What happened to being ashamed of who we [u]were[/u] and wanting to forget our past and [i]distance[/i] ourself from who we used to be? What happened to being 'ashamed' of our former behavior? It's almost as if some folk want to come to God and retain their sinful and godless ways and preferences and 'christianize' them. A mark of the New Birth is a terrible sense of shame with how we used to live and what we used to love. What happened?
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Robert Wurtz II
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| | 2008/5/8 16:55 | Profile |
| | Re: | | Quote:
RobertW wrote:
Quote:
Today, the only experimental religion being pursued with all our resources of heart and pocketbook is experimenting with the unrepentant sinner in our churches.
I think this is one of the reasons why lip service is offered to repentance and real revival. It is also why there is an 'advantage' (sadly) to having a lukewarm church. Revival, by default, will reduce the numbers initially. The unrepentant will roll out. However, if the revival is genuine then an effort will be made to get about the work and the church would fill up again.
Moreover, there are enough weary and vexed folk that truly want to see God move and the people live righteously that if a church would open it's doors with that ''marketing strategy" it would fill up. Just looking at it from a sheer carnal perspective. So it don't make sense to continue in lukewarmness no matter how you look at it.
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I agree Robert.... we all need to have more than lip service and I need improvements in my life. ....I am not what I want to be .....but I'm sure not what I used to be... thanks and praise to Jesus because he has changed my life. We must give people the gospel yes, whether they are in the hospital, in the nursing home and wherever. The problem is, most people in America, if not all, have already heard the gospel many times. I think the problem is they have heard the gospel from so many liberals, who say one thing with their lips, and live another. When they see those professed born again Christian's sinful lifestyles and no values and they see no more difference in them than see in the world. When they see them supporting abortion, homosexual marriage, or at least supporting the leaders that support sin, it appears then to the lost, that the gospel is a sham, when they see peoples lifestyles have not improved or changed and they don't match the book and their lips. God is not happy with this, I'm sure. I can assure you, if I know someone is supporting abortion or homosexual marriage or any other sin politically or otherwise or not even standing against it, I can't have any spiritual fellowship with them and I don't think anyone else can. Our hearts are evil enough without just outright standing for sin.
It is not the healthy that needs a doctor and if they don't know they are sick, they don't want to hear about the great physician's medicine. If they say they have already took the medicine and you can see it hasn't helped them one bit, what do you do? |
| | 2008/5/8 17:04 | |
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