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Discussion Forum : General Topics : A FALSE HEALING REVIVAL?? -Florida

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AbideinHim
Member



Joined: 2006/11/26
Posts: 3450
Louisiana

 Re: A FALSE HEALING REVIVAL?? -Florida

May the Lord give us true discernment, so that we will really know the difference between what is of Him, and the counterfeit works of the devil. There can only be a counterfeit of the true, and many true revivals of God have been derailed because the counterfeit has come in, and many in the Church did not discern it when it happened.

It is interesting and helpful to study the Great Awakening and the manifestations that took place in this great revival. The same arguments for and against the Great Awakening are again before us as to whether or not what is taking place in Florida is of God or not.

There is one group of saints that completely reject anything supernatural as being of the devil. You wonder if they have ever read the Word of God. Of course many of these same believers believe that miracles, signs and wonders no longer take place.

Another large segment of the Church accepts all signs and wonders as being from God. They fail to test the spirits and end up in deception.

There is a remnant of the Church that is exercising true discernment. They are allowing the Spirit of truth to lead them in the way of truth, and they are also rightly dividing the Word of God.

The problem that Jonathan Edwards had in the Great Awakening is the same problem that we have in today's Church, and that is that in a true revival there will be miracales, signs, and wonders taking place, but right along side of it the counterfeit will also be there. So instead of throwing out the baby with the bathwater, we must exercise discernment accepting and receiving that which is of God and brings forth true fruit to the glory of God and rejecting that which caters to the flesh of man and brings glory to man and not God.

The same man that wrote the article about the Florida revival as being not of God also wrote many articles about the Brownsville Revival not being of God. This is a matter of throwing out the baby with the bathwater and not discerning between the true and the false. While I would not accept every manifestation that took place in that revival as being from the Lord, there was much fruit that came out of this revival. There was strong anointed gospel preaching of repentance and holiness during this revival. Many were saved, and many backsliders were restored. I know many young people that were impacted by this revival that are still on fire with the Lord today.

Many of the great revivals throughout history were rejected by some of the well known Church leaders of the day. The move of God that Andrew Murray had prayed for came and he rejected it at first until the Lord opened his eyes.

There will be miracles, signs and wonders poured out as the Holy Spirit manifest Himself, just as He did at Pentecost. We know that in the last days the enemy will deceive many with the false and the counterfeit. The Spirit of truth will lead us into all truth and give us discernment as to what is of God and what isn't. What is of God will cause our love and devotion to the Lord to grow. If it is causing people to become more like Jesus then it is of God. If it leaves people in their sin with no conviction or repentance, then it is not of God. All true revivals will be Christ centered and will bring glory to God. All false revivals will lift up a man or a ministry.


_________________
Mike

 2008/5/3 9:41Profile









 Re:

Quote:

PaulWest wrote:
Brethren,



But I know that the mere discussion and consideration of these things often leads to soulish disputes and believers' feelings getting hurt. This alone should tell us that we are venturing into the carnal without even having experienced the "revival" in question! There's something about these types of discussions - the same as when believers discuss tattoos, music, clothes, and anything else that has an open visibility on the surface - that drives us to both ardently defend and attack. The objects beneath the surface, however - love, patience, humility, righteousness, gentleness of speech, cleanliness of conscience (the real, indisputable impartations of God upon the life of a believer and result of personal revival) are never once mentioned. The focus is on the outward and whether or not they are of God....



Whenever I have been in meetings where God was moving there was always humbleness, no pride and an awe or reverence for God. I knew it was God because I know my fathers voice.

When I think about revival I think about Azusa street.

"..It brought a heavenly atmosphere, as though the angels themselves were present and joining with us. And possibly they were. It seemed to still criticism and opposition, and was hard for even wicked men to gainsay or ridicule..."

"...Then the “blood” songs were very popular. “The life is in the blood. “Sinai, Calvary, and Pentecost, all had their rightful place in the “Azusa” work. But the “new song” was altogether different, not of human composition. It cannot be successfully counterfeited. The crow cannot imitate the dove..."


"... The old tunes, even, are violated by change, and new styles must be gotten out of every season, for added profit. There is very little real spirit of worship in them. They move the toes, but not the hearts of men...."

"...We did not even have a platform or pulpit in the beginning. All were on a level. The ministers were servants, according to the true meaning of the word. We did not honor men for their advantage, in means or education, but rather for their God-given “gifts” He set the members in the “body."..."

"...Brother Seymour generally sat behind two empty shoeboxes, one on top of the other. He usually kept his head inside the top one during the meeting, in prayer. There was no pride there...."

"...In that old building, with its low rafters and bare floors, God took strong men and women to pieces, and put them together again, for His glory. It was a tremendous overhauling process. Pride and self-assertion, self-importance and self-esteem, could not survive there. The religious ego preaches its own funeral sermon quickly...."

"...No subjects or sermons were announced ahead of time, and no special speakers for such an hour. No one knew what might be coming, What God would do. All was spontaneous, ordered of the Spirit. We wanted to hear from God, through whoever he might speak. We had no “respect of persons” The rich and educated were the dame as the poor and ignorant, and found a much harder death to die. We only recognized God. All were equal. No flesh might glory in His presence. ..."

"...We were delivered right there from ecclesiastical hierarchism and abuse. We wanted God...."

"...The Lord was liable to burst through any one. We prayed for this continually. Some one would finally get up anointed for the message. All seemed to recognize this and gave way. It might be a child, a woman, or a man. It might be from the back seat, or from the front. It made no difference. We rejoiced that God was working. No one wished to show himself. We thought only of obeying God...."


"... Presumptuous men would sometimes come among us. Especially preachers who would try to spread themselves, in self-opinionating. But their effort was short lived. The breath would be taken from them. Their minds would wander, their brains reel. Things would turn black before their eyes. They could not go on. I never saw one get by with it in those days. They were up against God. No one cut them off. We simply prayed. The Holy Spirit did the rest. We wanted the Spirit to control. He wound them up in short order. They were carried out dead, spiritually speaking. They generally bit the dust in humility, going through the process we had all gone through. In other words they died out, came to see themselves in all their weakness, then in childlike humility and confession were taken up of God, transformed through the mighty “baptism” in the Spirit. The “old man” died with all his pride, arrogancy and good works. In my own case I came to abhor myself. I begged the Lord to drop a curtain so close behind me on my past that it would hit my heels. He told me to forget every good deed as though it had never occurred, as soon as it was accomplished anything for Him, lest my good works become a snare to me...."


http://www.azusastreet.org/AzusaStreetBartleman.htm

 2008/5/3 9:58
FireinmyBones1
Member



Joined: 2004/1/17
Posts: 219
Michigan

 Re:

Dearest brother,

I can testify as one of those "souls" that walked away from Brownsville transformed. I visited as a carnal, pleasure loving, perverse pastor's son in 1997. My life was radically transformed. The fire and hunger for genuine revival has burned with great intensity in my heart ever since. After graduation my wife and I moved there and I attended the Brownsville Revival School of Ministry. I have never witnessed such genuine humility and desire for God amongst church leadership in my entire life. The pastors and leaders (many of whom I was priveleged to know on a semi-personal level)were some of the most sincere, prayerful and Godly people I have ever met. The standard of holiness and purity was of a caliber I have yet to witness anywhere else. The real power of it was that holiness and purity were the norm, yet there was not a hint of legalism attached to it. It was not a holiness birthed out of some sort of pseudo-scriptural fear, but out of gratefulness and love. I'm telling, I have never witnessed such a holy atmosphere amongst believers anywhere thus far. NEVER and I truly mean NEVER in my life have I ever witnessed a greater passion for the message of the cross. So often in pentecostal and charismatic churches, we emphasize ressurection but ignore the cross. While at Brownsville, however, I heard the cross preached almost daily with a passion that would rival Paul Washer (and that is not said as an insult but a compliment as I enjoy MOST of his ministry).

I am now in full time pastoral ministry. My wife and I's lives were dramatically altered. Perhaps it was that my 16 year old mind was naive and did not even know how to be judgmental. Perhaps that allowed me to eat the meat and spit out the bones . . . I don't know. All I can say is that the fire of heaven touched my life and I have never been the same. I can testify to the fact that there are hundreds like me all over America. Many of them are the dearest of friends to my wife and I. Many of them are spending and pouring out their lives on behalf of the impoverished and lost in third world nations. Many of them are preaching as itinerant ministers, spreading the message of holiness and revival whereever they go. Many of them are humbly serving in local churches, faithfully preaching the word of God.

I and hundreds like me have been forever changed by the power of God.

Just my two cents...

God bless,
Jeff


_________________
Jeff

 2008/5/3 16:39Profile









 Re:

Quote:
I knew it was God because I know my fathers voice.



It's interesting that Joseph Smith said exactly those same words you have used.

Krispy

 2008/5/5 7:57









 Re:

[b]Fireinmybones1...[/b]

I dont think anyone here has ever said that no good has ever come from these "revivals". Even Paul said that if someone was preaching the Word for the wrong reasons that he rejoiced that at least the Word of God was being preached.

But that does not give a license to do whatever we want to do.

I praise God for your testimony, brother! You were indeed saved by the power of God. Thats the only way we can be saved anyway!

At the same time, I visited there as a newly born again believer who was gloriously ignorant of scripture (sarcasm intended... lol), and bought into it. But as I've said before, as I studied scripture I found a lot of what was going on there to be highly unscriptural.

They did preach a very clear salvation message. I've never said they didnt. And praise the Lord He used that to get thru to you.

But understand that at the same time, there was a lot wrong with that movement as well.

Krispy

 2008/5/5 8:07









 Re:

Quote:

KrispyKrittr wrote:
Quote:
I knew it was God because I know my fathers voice.



It's interesting that Joseph Smith said exactly those same words you have used.

Krispy



What's this attack all about? Are you saying that we can't know our father's voice?

John 10:2-4

2But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep.

3To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.

4And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: [b][color=990000]for they know his voice.[/color][/b]

 2008/5/5 8:41









 Re:

First of all... stop being so paranoid. It wasnt an attack. Not everything written on this forum is about you or directed at you.

Secondly, I was merely pointing out that people say "I know the Father's voice" when they really dont. Joseph Smith said those very words, as did Brigham Young.

So just saying "I know my Father's voice" doesnt make it so. And it doesnt necessarily legitimize something, especially when that something can be proven to be very unscriptural.

It's one of those "if the shoe fits... wear it" kinda statements. But your pride wont let you just accept or reject... you feel a need to cry "you're attacking me!"

So everytime I respond to something you wrote, and I dont agree with you... it's an attack? If you're going to throw down that card every time you are challenged here then you are proving yourself unteachable and hard headed. Accusing someone of attacking you on this forum is sometimes an effective way of shutting people up, and so when someone cant support their position... well, time to throw down the "attack" card.

You need a chill pill, my friend. You're too sensitive.

Krispy

P.S. My apologies for the obscure 80's reference... "chill pill"! lol

 2008/5/5 8:49









 Re:

Quote:

KrispyKrittr wrote:
First of all... stop being so paranoid. It wasnt an attack. Not everything written on this forum is about you or directed at you.

Secondly, I was merely pointing out that people say "I know the Father's voice" when they really dont. Joseph Smith said those very words, as did Brigham Young.

So just saying "I know my Father's voice" doesnt make it so. And it doesnt necessarily legitimize something, especially when that something can be proven to be very unscriptural.

It's one of those "if the shoe fits... wear it" kinda statements. But your pride wont let you just accept or reject... you feel a need to cry "you're attacking me!"

So everytime I respond to something you wrote, and I dont agree with you... it's an attack? If you're going to throw down that card every time you are challenged here then you are proving yourself unteachable and hard headed. Accusing someone of attacking you on this forum is sometimes an effective way of shutting people up, and so when someone cant support their position... well, time to throw down the "attack" card.

You need a chill pill, my friend. You're too sensitive.

Krispy



This reminds me of what I was discussing with my daughter this morning as I was driving her to her public school. She was having a hard time with some other students and their vile language. I asked her "Is this your father's voice?" and she said "No." than I said "than don't listen to it."

 2008/5/5 9:02









 Re:

Quote:
This reminds me of what I was discussing with my daughter this morning as I was driving her to her public school. She was having a hard time with some other students and their vile language. I asked her "Is this your father's voice?" and she said "No." than I said "than don't listen to it."



Well, there you go... if you dont like what I have to say, then use the old "if the shoe fits" saying, and go merrily on your way.

It's no sweat off my back. :-)

Krispy

 2008/5/5 9:32
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Miscommunications

Easy folks ...


_________________
Mike Balog

 2008/5/5 10:08Profile





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