SermonIndex Audio Sermons
Image Map
Discussion Forum : General Topics : "THE CALLED" - by Rahman Reuben ... Chapters 1 to 3 ...

Print Thread (PDF)

Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 Next Page )
PosterThread
Rahman
Member



Joined: 2004/3/24
Posts: 1374


 I CHECKED AGAIN ...



HI Corey_H ...

You wrote that 1 Enoch is concidered "gnostic" ... i went back and researched again in my Charles compilation, and it's not concidered "gnostic" tho "non-canonical" ... The footnote says ...

QUOTE;
"The Book of Enoch, written during the second century B.C.E., is one of the most important non-canonical apocryphal works, and probably had a huge influence on early Christian, particularly Gnostic, beliefs. Filled with hallucinatory visions of heaven and hell, angels and devils, Enoch introduced concepts such as fallen angels, the appearance of a Messiah, Resurrection, a Final Judgement, and a Heavenly Kingdom on Earth. Interspersed with this material are quasi-scientific digressions on calendrical systems, geography, cosmology, astronomy, and meteorology."

Blessings in Christ Jesus! ... :-D ---

 2007/1/23 14:19Profile
Rahman
Member



Joined: 2004/3/24
Posts: 1374


 WHAT I LEARNED FROM CATHOLICISM & JW'S ...



[b]CATHOLIC[/b]

Again, if it be the Lord's will, i'll be glad when discussion about The Called is moved from this Forum Arena (reading and writing) to verbal, for at least with verbal i could interject when someone quotes me in a meaning that i certaily did not intend ...

When i speak of my early brush with Catholicism and being raise a JW, and God's use of it to His glory, and my advantage in my saved life, i am in no way touting the merits of Catholic or JW doctrine ... It amazes me what some folk hear in what i say and write ...

Again my brush with Catholicism, as short as it was, put an intense awareness and belief in me of God's all seeing and all knowing existence, and the fact that we are surrounded everyday by the supernatural, good and evil, in the form of satan, angels, and demons ... It was in Catholicism that i obtained a childs sense of belief in the super-natural, and a childs sense of fear and dread of an eternal fiery tormenting in hell ...

At kinder-garten and first grade level i was shown poster sized pictures of people burning in hell and tormented with all sorts of cruel instruments by all kinds of scary demons ... With no such depictions of Hell in the OT or NT where did the Catholics get such dipictions? ... Imagination alone? ... i don't think so because in my reading of 1 Enoch back then their very same illustrations fit to the tee the description therein ... Same with angels, when i was a little kid in Catholic School they taught me the names of the 7 arch-angels ... Where did the Catholics get these names, when you'll not find them in either the OT or the NT? ... Again in my reading of 1 Enoch back then, these very same names pop up, that floored me! ... Now i understand that tho the Church of Rome declared these writings as banished in the 4th century, their influence in their earlier Church history was still
evident in small degrees in 1955/56 ... i don't know how they operate now, but in my own life this is how i see my brush with the RC as being instrumental in enabling His use of me in penning The Called ... Everything in my beforehand experienced once connected to The Called pulled me forward ...


[b]JW[/b]

Now as to my JW experience ... Amen the JW's have some serious quirks in their doctrine, but what many don't know is that it was founded by the son of a Presbyterian minister, who took some of his dads teaching with him, which is why one can find some truth amongst all the error ... But there are some things that i learned being raised a JW that were instrumental in my being able to "imagine" what i believe God showed me during the writing of The Called ...

For one thing JW's are very honoring to The Father (true they'd be more honoring if they understood that Jesus is God too), they actually "fear" Jehovah (whether you think it a misguided fear still does not cancel out that they fear Him), and they spend a lot of time making it's members see/imagine the greatness and awe of God in ways that live with you every day ... Their publications are rife with beautiful art work that inspire thought to the divine and spiritual elements ... Without such pre-paration i would never have been able to have my inner vision opened up to all that i began to see in readiness of penning The Called ... That's why i say the experience was like being a secretary, it just opened up before me like dictation, and i just followed what i heard/saw and was directed to ... And tho they get the prophets and the Revelation twisted, i doubt very seriously if i'd be as familiar with them (or the Bible period) if i come up any other way ... It's like when our Lord called me to Himself true, everything that was twisted just began to fall into place ... i have saints who grew up in Church and Sunday School tell me all the time "you know the Bible so well" ... And it does amaze me how many saints are afraid to engage a witness, but when you become one you're put into extensive training in their "Ministry School" on how to be effective in public speaking, as well as witnessing ... These things i know God uses to His glory in me, and had i not been raised a JW i wouldn't have the skills ...

Another of the things that became clear to me from my JW raising was when i got saved, many who believed on Christ seemed to have no awe or respect for the Father in ways that i had ... JW is a law bound religion tied to the Father, so even grace under Christ is not seen as a liscense to sin ... Become unrepentant leaven in a JW congregation by defying the Elders outreach toward repentance from sin, and they will dis-fellowship you from amongst them ... Rampant liscence to sin like we find in some of our churches, is not tolerated there ... It's because of my JW upbringing that Holy Spirit could bring me to a greater understanding that my "freedom of grace in Christ" has freed me from the law of condemnation, but my appreciation of such makes me want to please Him in every way ... i find many saints to talk a good game about loving God, but their actions prove otherwise, and i think that stems from lack of true knowledge and appreciation for what God the Father has done for us thru Christ Jesus ... Christ said He came to glorify the Father, to re-open the way for us to commune with the Father, and so it seems to me that if we'd use our open door (Christ) for such communion we'd also be heaven-bent on glorifying the Father ... Instead i think our record to show that we're more intent pleasing ourselves ...

Then there's the simplicity of JW's, the brotherly love they share amongst one another, and their singleness of religion and purpose ... Yes these folk spread false doctrine, no question, yet we have the true one, and we're complex, denominationally and doctrinally divides, and all over the spectrum in our religion and purpose ... JW's are simple everyday folk, who meet in rather unpretentious buildings by modern standards not above their means ... They don't take up a million collections because their bulding overhead is modest, but have simple contribution boxes in their Kingdom Halls ... They don't hound folks for money, they say "love the Lord in your giving as much as you can love Him", and if a need arises past what they can do out of the regular giving budget they make an announcment and the congregation digs deeper ... The Elders work, there's no one taking advantage of a congregation, so if you're an Elder it ain't because of mammon, and everyone's biggest priority great or small, is to go out in the hiways and byways to spread their message, which is primarily a warning that you don't want to get caught short with God of salvation in Christ ... Is the warning faulty? ... You bet it is, but had i not been raised a JW i would not have come to the understanding that we have the true Gospel, and the true warning, but we're content to collectively sit on our butts whilst bemoaning how such as JW's are out spreading a false Gospel/hope ...

Like the early church in Acts they look out for one another ... When they have their huge assemblies in other lands, members open their doors and share with others they don't even know ... It's easier for them to do because no matter where you go in any country, all JW's believe in the same thing ... Is what they believe in dead wrong? ... Yep, but it still from a sense of "one Lord, one faith, one baptism" instill in me an envy of their "unity" ... In this i bless God that tho we true believers may be all over the place in many areas that divide us, that still in the Holy Spirit we are in unity, because we are all baptised into the Body of Christ by His Blood, and immersed in the one Holy Spirit Himself, whether we acknowledge/believe it or not ... Truth be told if JW's would tomorrow get their theology right i'd re-associate myself in a heartbeat ... But i don't think that's where God wants me, neither do i think such will happen ... i believe God has and is grooming me toward His attaining a re-adjustment of His Church toward our re-newed callibration toward His "first love" and "first works" parameters ... Just like we take pot shots at the JW's, they do they same about us regarding our dis-unity, our wordliness, and apparent fascination and pre-occupation with mammon ...

There are other things i've mentioned on other threads about this subject so i'll stop here, this just to clarify what i meant when i said my past is in benefit to my present and future - Rom. 8:28 again ... In the book THE ELIJAH TASK it's summed up this way ...

"Our (past) hurts and sins have become our schooling and preparation (for His use of us).
He turns the depths of our sin into the strength of our ministry. Our (past) sins have rather become our training for (His) high calling rather than our disqualification" ...

If God knows us from our mothers wombs, He knows where we're headed, what we'll experience, and how He'll use it to His glory and our advantage ... As long as i can remain selfless in the process it's not a rough ride at all ...

Blessings in Christ Jesus to ALL! ... :-D

 2007/1/23 14:21Profile
IRONMAN
Member



Joined: 2004/6/15
Posts: 1924
IN HEAVENLY PLACES WITH JESUS

 Re:

bro Beyedoers

Quote:
Part 1 Ans: I don't know. Not really sure how it's relevant, either.



i thought it was relevant because if they consider those books canon and we don't, then one group is deceived and is in serious need of help from the other and it would be good if we knew. if it is us or them that need straightening out as it concerns this matter. that's what thinking, perhaps it's not a big deal to you but for whatever reason, it concerns me and i'm trying to find answers.

Quote:
Part 2 Ans: So what if they followed Jewish traditions? I can see where you are going, but Jesus and the Apostle Paul didn't have much regard for Jewish traditions. Peter did, so much so that Paul rebuked him. Not sure how this is relevant either.



where am i going with it? i was just saying that perhaps we ought to see what traditions they followed more closely than we did just to see where we differ and find out why.(edit) bro Rahman did bring up how there is no Jew/Greek in the Church so i think that takes care of the traditions issue (edit)

Quote:
Ans: nope. there is a reason they were not canonized. they did not meet the criteria used by the Jews in the compilation of the Hebrew Bible and then by the early church for the canon we have. They had to claim inspiration, be fully accurate in history and geography, be narrative or prophetic in nature (with the lone exception of Proverbs), to name a few.



ok that's fine, but why is it that the Ethiopian Church has a different canon in regard these books? the Ethiopian Canon is the same as ours except in includes these books and some other apochryphal ones so i'm trying to find out why and what the relevance of that is.

Quote:
Now, I have not read Rahman's book, so I'm not going to make premature assumptions and pronounce anything upon him...I'll leave that up to the Judge on that Great and Terrible Day. I just know I wouldn't want to claim something I wrote as being divinely inspired...I'll also leave that to God and stick to the 66 divinely inspired "novels" He already gave us



this is just and observation and has nothing to do with the called

:you know i have found that this argument which you have put up here is the argument a lot of unbelievers have with the bible as we know it. how can we call something man wrote divinely inspired?i had a doctor the other day scoff at me and say "you believe those fairy tales?"

in spite of such we believe that it is divinely inspired in spite of this and know this divine inspiration to be so.

anyhow this is most interesting and i trust our Lord will do as He sees fit through all this discussion.


_________________
Farai Bamu

 2007/1/23 14:25Profile
IRONMAN
Member



Joined: 2004/6/15
Posts: 1924
IN HEAVENLY PLACES WITH JESUS

 Re: RELYING THERE IS A FORTH MAN IN THIS FURNACE BRO! ...

bro Rahman
thanks for your admonition, it is much appreciated. concerning the Ethiopian Church i asked that question because i'd yet to receive an answer from anyone about it. as i said in the post, i wasn't sure how much of a help that would be but perhaps it's something worth considering.it was not so much in reference to the called (at least i didn't mean it that way if i somehow alluded to it) but it was something i was curious about and was looking for an explanation. thanks for the answer about that, that makes perfect sense.

Quote:
Now this is something that i find interesting too! ... But again it makes no difference to me whether Western Christianity accepts the books included in The Called as Canon, i believe that's closed ... All i'm saying is apparently (as i've just recently found out) there was a time when said books were very instrumental in the faith structure of Jew and early Christian alike ... That's history, as it's also history that these books eventually came to be designated by the learned men of the Church of Rome as being to "high" and "mystical" to be percieved by the common member of the laity ...



aahhh here we go!

Quote:
The Called does not point away from Scripture, it points to it ... Of course it would help to have read it to know first hand if i'm/it's guilty of the fears of some ... But irregardless, i don't think anyone has to fear that somehow The Called is gonna in some way undermine and/or overthrow the Bible ... Lord knows Dan Brown has tried with his The DaVinci Code, but the Bible still reigns supreme ...



i found that to be true as i read it. there is nothing which i found in the called which contradicted anything in scripture. we're soon about ot find out if this is live or memorex in short order.


_________________
Farai Bamu

 2007/1/23 14:46Profile
Xtian
Member



Joined: 2006/6/4
Posts: 31
Colorado

 Re: AMEN ... COMPLIMENT NOT REPLACEMENT ...

Quote:

Rahman wrote:


ilive4only1 you wrote;
"Complement means to accompany helpfully (help+full).

A thing is said to be "a complement" to something else, if it is helpful to the other thing.

When any person writes something that they acclaim as being "divinely inspired" and a "complement to the bible" it must be tested against the word."


--- Amen ... That why the novel jacket says "compliment" and not "replacement" ... i'm not the brightest bulb in the lamp but thank God He's illumined me enough to know that to claim a novel a "replacement" for the Bible is ridiculous ...

Blessings in Jesus! ... :-D ---



Rahman,

The problem is that it doesnt compliment the bible. I have shown how your 1,000 year days of creation causes errors throughout genesis and even attacks the deity and sinless life of Jesus Christ.

Apparently you still think that your personal experiences outweigh the authority and commands of God found in the bible. You also admitted that you didnt question anything you recieved... that is not what the bible calls us to do.

What is your answer to disobeying God's word and commands?


_________________
Steve

 2007/1/23 15:09Profile
Rahman
Member



Joined: 2004/3/24
Posts: 1374


 Re: AMEN ... COMPLIMENT NOT REPLACEMENT ...


Hi Bro Xtian ...

Hope you're feeling better and more rested today! ...

i know it irks some to no end when i say i wrote as i heard/saw and was led ... Sorry, but that was my experience so i have no other answers than those i've given ... And in your question "What is your answer to disobeying God's word and commands?" ... i can't answer this to your satisfaction either in that i don't see myself as doing such ... That's why i keep saying if i'm in error, i know He'll eventually reveal it to me ... But until such a time bro i can't give you an answer that'll satisfy you (or anyone else appaled) ...

And as for your comments about your reasoning of why the creative day can't be 1,000 years, it pits two opposing beliefs that will not serve you convincing me, or me you ... So that's why i said, "ok" ...

You initially engaged me like so;
"Very interesting read so far. I like the visual story that is painted in these first two chapters. Good stuff, but I have a question... I hope you dont mind if I pick out small part that bothers me (I am not being decisive, just want to give my two cents on a topic)."

i answered you and that seems to have canceled out all else ... i can't answer you to your satisfaction on this, so it's my take that reading The Called is not for you because it's now completely judged in the negative as whatever you judge it as, for whatever reasons (tho it's interesting to me that the most passionate rebukes of it is from those who've never read it) ... So i'm content to leave it at this empasse ... i can't make you see what i see, i can only report my experiences, and again i stand with them until He makes it plain to me that i'm nuts (and if i am i trust Him to free me) ... Other than this i can't add anymore, the best i can do is go round in circles with you and i'll not be doing that ...

So in the meanwhile i'm in appreciation of your continued prayers for me ...

Blessings in Christ Jesus ... :-D ---

 2007/1/23 16:24Profile
iansmith
Member



Joined: 2006/3/22
Posts: 963
Wheaton, IL

 Re: I CHECKED AGAIN ...

I remember hearing the Leonard Ravenhill had gone out of his way to get a copy of the book of Enoch when he was a young Christian, and when he did get a copy he found it utterly disapointing -i believe he even said he threw it in the rubbish bin.


_________________
Ian Smith

 2007/1/23 16:34Profile
Xtian
Member



Joined: 2006/6/4
Posts: 31
Colorado

 Re:

Rahman,

I am doing quite well, but I am not well in regards to your situation. These are my last comments in bold. It seems that you think your experiences far outweigh the bible and the authority of Jesus Christ. So much so that you dont have to test anything that pops into your head - I am sorry to say, but that is blatant disobedience (again show me just one Godly prophet that has gone against God's word... you cannot even point to one... Why? because those who did what you are doing, were called false prophets).

Again this is my last attempt to show you your errors...

Quote:

i know it irks some to no end when i say i wrote as i heard/saw and was led ... Sorry, but that was my experience so i have no other answers than those i've given ...



[b]So you are admitting that your experiences outweigh the authority and commands of scripture.[/b]


Quote:
And in your question "What is your answer to disobeying God's word and commands?" ... i can't answer this to your satisfaction either in that i don't see myself as doing such ...



[b]It not about my satisfaction, its about answering to the satisfaction of the bible. Brother please dont remove yourself from the guidelines of scripture that everyone, including you are to follow. You are purposely heading away from the one who saved us.

You dont see yourself as doing such - is like an alcoholic saying he doesnt have a problem. IOW you are in so deep you dont think you have a problem. Oh well...[/b]


Quote:
That's why i keep saying if i'm in error, i know He'll eventually reveal it to me ... But until such a time bro i can't give you an answer that'll satisfy you (or anyone else appaled) ...



[b]God commanded his believers to confront with scripture those who are falling into false teachings, messages and revelations, yet you are still waiting for God to reveal it to you personally that you have error'd.

Your situation reminds me of the following tale...

After a terrible flood a man climbed up onto his roof when the waters overcame his house. The man prayed for God to save him. Shortly after a boat came by, and he waved them off saying "Leave me alone, God will save me!" Time passed and the waters rose even more. A helicopter came by and the man yelled the same thing "Leave me alone, God will save me!". Finally the flood waters rose higher, the man was swept away and he drowned. Finally the man came face-to-face with God, and he demanded, "Why didn't you save me when I prayed?"

God sighed. "I sent a boat and a helicopter... what else did you expect?"

Now that might seem pretty funny, but in your case your saying that only God can save you from your unbiblical errors. Just as in the story, many people are warning you of the danger you face, but you fly in the face of loving brothers and the authority of scripture. Unlike the man in the story, you will have to answer for your false doctrine and beliefs, and it wont be okay or funny.[/b]


Quote:
And as for your comments about your reasoning of why the creative day can't be 1,000 years, it pits two opposing beliefs that will not serve you convincing me, or me you ... So that's why i said, "ok" ...



[b]So according to you Jesus quoted an error'd source (Genesis) and thus sinned. Its apparent that you do not believe that the bible is whole, complete and without error.

I would hate to be in your shoes when you stand before Him, but the choice is yours.[/b]


Quote:
i answered you and that seems to have canceled out all else ...



Gee maybe because your answers are just excuses as to why you ignore the commands in scripture.


Quote:
i can't answer you to your satisfaction on this, so it's my take that reading The Called is not for you because it's now completely judged in the negative as whatever you judge it as, for whatever reasons (tho it's interesting to me that the most passionate rebukes of it is from those who've never read it) ...



[b]I did read your false claim that stems from your days in the Jehovah Witnesses, but apparently the doctrine of the bible is not good enough for you. I am so sorry to hear this...

You are the one who said it was the Holy Spirit who wrote this and not you (that you were only the scribe). If this is the case, then why did the Holy Spirit go against the deity and sinless life of Christ as seen throughout the entire bible? The only reason is that it is not the Holy Spirit that you are receiving these things from - of course you will never know because you will not stand them up to God's standard, the bible. Again this is a shame because if what you wrote leads others to stray, and you are wrong, then you are in big trouble (ref milestone in the NT).[/b]


Quote:
So i'm content to leave it at this empasse ... i can't make you see what i see, i can only report my experiences, and again i stand with them until He makes it plain to me that i'm nuts (and if i am i trust Him to free me) ...



[b]Again you are claiming that your exeriences have more authority than scripture - no where in scripture is this found, suggest or implied.[/b]


Quote:
Other than this i can't add anymore, the best i can do is go round in circles with you and i'll not be doing that ...



[b]Bro, your not going around in circles with me, your going against scripture and God. After I leave this discussion, you still have to face the sins of omission and comission that you have done. Your problem is with the true God of the bible, and not the god you follow.[/b]


Quote:
So in the meanwhile i'm in appreciation of your continued prayers for me ...



[b]I have prayed, but as scripture dictates I can no longer have anything to do with you. I leave in the hands of God, whom you are disobeying.[/b]


Blessings in Christ Jesus ... :-D ---




Again, please align yourself Rahman, your works and your special revelations with the bible. Its a 100% fact that if you follow and obey the bible, you will not fall (because Jesus words will last forever), but if you lean unto your own understanding, you fall into errors, sin and judgment.

I hope you make the right choice by taking the advice of the many Godly men who have warned you, and forsake the things that dont measure up to the word of God.

Again, no ad hominem attacks from me, but when one does not listen and heed the word of God, it bothers me. Your statements are dragging my savior and Lord thru the mud and making nil His sacrifice for my sin and the sin of everyone eles.

Peace to you, I hope.


_________________
Steve

 2007/1/25 19:14Profile
mamaluk
Member



Joined: 2006/6/12
Posts: 524


 Re:

Quote:
Rahman,

If your spiritual appetites whetted ... GET THE BOOK! ...



???..is this even a godly approach?..or something of Madison Avenue?

As "fun" as it was to have read the Book of Enoch years back, it took me to a mythological journey of paranoia but no where near heaven.

I suppose if "[i]important men[/i]" like Mr. Falwell or Mr. Robertson endorse this book, that would make it all spiritually sound and "Christian"?

sigh....very sad !!

 2007/1/25 22:14Profile
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re: A W Tozer and 'trying the spirits'

I was walking the dog earlier today and listening to A W Tozer on my iPod. This audio file is only about 25 minutes long and I recommend it to all who are interested in the topic of 'trying the spirits'.

It is entitled [url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/visit.php?lid=13569]Spiritual Treason[/url] and you'll also get to hear some of Tozer's delightful mischievous wit.


_________________
Ron Bailey

 2007/1/26 5:04Profile





©2002-2020 SermonIndex.net
Promoting Genuine Biblical Revival.
Affiliate Disclosure | Privacy Policy