| Re: UK Christian Magazine Reviews Novel: THE CALLED ...|
i'm overjoyed at recieving this review but i must admit i'm a little nervous in posting it here on SI because of the heat my "novel" draws, but then again if i've walked in this by faith thus far now is not the time to be withering under heat ... So i'm trusting in Jesus for His "fire-proofing" ...
As my grand-mom used to say, "God works in mysterious ways His wonders to perform" ... As an American i would have never thought in a million years that THE CALLED's first magazine review would be done in the UK ... You can read it here;
For those who don't know what THE CALLED is, you can search thru the "novel" here;
And read the first 3 chapters here at the beginning of this thread ...
As i've stated to a few of my detractors "if THE CALLED is truly of our Lord He will flourish it, if it's not then He wont" ... The success of the majority of self published works are pretty dismal, so as far as i'm concerned only God can make this grow ...
So far since 10/05 till present (4/4/06) 50 copies have been ordered;
USA - 34
UK - 8
CA - 1
GER - 4
FR - 3
If THE CALLED grows anywhere near my faith vision i will concider it a "miracle", anything past that i will concider a "mandate" ...
His will be done!
[b]MY REBUTTAL LETTER TO SOTERIA'S REVIEW ...ReplyEdit this post[/b]
Dear bro. Rob,
i thank God for Soteria's review of THE CALLED, and look forward in great anticipation as to how He will apply Rom. 8:28 to said review.
Yes THE CALLED is controversial, i had no idea how much so until of recent. It's funny, thus far it seems learned men and Bible scholars would like to tar and feather me for its penning, while more simple folk as myself seem to be inspired by it. In fact i just recently had a sister lavish praise on me because it's reading has rekindled in her lukewarm Christian husband a renewed interest in searching Scripture, as well as a renewed reminder of the majesty, sovereignty and awesomeness of our God. i had to quickly let her know that i wasn't deserving of any such praise, but that every good and perfect gift comes strictly from above.
You are so correct in your statement that i consider THE CALLED divinely inspired. The receiving of this book brings chills to me every time i think about the experience, and yes i too believe that our Lord showed me the cover which i explained to Xulon Press's Art Department.
For the record "the purpose of THE CALLED is as a more un-intimidating introduction to the story/plan of God, and that via its reading Hell subsequently draw especially the un-saved into actual Bible study and salvation in Christ." Yes and while no one should add or subtract from Scripture this warning that is quoted in your review is in specific to The Revelation itself. i was very relieved at your line "However, Reuben does not in any obvious way contradict anything in the Bible and is keen to use Bible references to back up his writings.". Contradicting the Bible or our God is the very last thing i'd ever want to do, that's why THE CALLED is presented as a "compliment to the first 32 chapters of Genesis". Also THE CALLED is not "a direct attempt to rationalise the events as described in Genesis", but more so a composite of info regarding these subjects derived from Dead Sea Scroll material such as The Book of Enoch, The Book of the Secrets of Enoch, Jubilees and Adam and Eve, fleshed out over the skeleton of canon Scripture. THE CALLED is a work woven from what has already been written, the inspiration i speak of is that i believe Holy Spirit used this foolish and unlearned vessel to do this work. Yes i had the desire for the unsaved' sake to do such a work, but when i go back and read through the work itself it becomes most obvious to me that i could not have done this on my own. i pray our Lord Jesus Christ that no reader would ever begin to listen to me, or put their trust in me in any way, above God. The very thought of such a possibility fills me with fear, and because of your review if it's God's intent to flourish THE CALLED i will make a point to address this issue every time!
i have but this rebuttal to the final part of your review'
"Alternatively Reuben may have good intentions, but nothing more. At worst he could be perceived as a wolf in sheeps clothing seeking to distract and lead people away from God toward himself for his own ends. We must remember that we are commanded in the Bible to put our trust in God first, gain a head knowledge of Biblical principles, and stay clear of those who would seek to deceive us (unwittingly or knowingly)."
The Word says that "whatsoever is not of faith is a sin". Everything that i've done in the area of THE CALLED, as with other aspects of my Christian walk with Christ these past 27 years has been done out of total faith. When i was a very young saint in our Lord my pastor used to always admonish us to seek God for His ultimate purpose for our earthly lives. i took that admonishment very seriously. In that quest i've heard our Lord say two things to me in my spirit ... #1 - I will make you a spokesman first to my Church, and then to the nations ... #2 - When your ministry takes off it will take a multitude with it.
i believe that THE CALLED is His introduction for the ministry He has for me to do, His ultimate purpose for my life. i only have inklings of what this ministry entails, and used to really fret about the details but have been brought by Him into a place of rest knowing that He knows - and that's all i need!
Thanks again for being His vessel of the first review of THE CALLED! ... Blessings to you and Soteria in the matchless name of our Lord Jesus Christ.
THE CALLED is now available on line in about 5 countries ...
US - CA - UK - GER - FR ...
PS - Here's a web-site to search for the cheapest prices and shipping;
i would really like to talk to Tim LaHaye to find out if he too encountered such questionings of his motives at the onset of his LEFT BEHIND series, as i seem to be drawing with THE CALLED ... i just wonder? ... :-?
| 2006/4/4 15:39||Profile|
| Re: STICK ME WITH A FORK I'M (UN)DONE ...|
A few of my friends after reading Soteria's review of THE CALLED couldn't quite figure out why i was so excited about it... They pointed out that it didn't seem exactly "glowing" ...
i admit this also, but in light of Rom: 8: 28 & 31 i choose to be more optimistic and think like whoever it was that said, "There's no such thing as bad publicity "... But here's why i'm undone ...
In doing some further messing around on Soteria's website i found that they also review video games, DVD's and CD's, and not just Christian ones ... i went over to the CD reviews and lo and behold i find a review for Prince's new 3121 (which honors God in no way) ...
i was not only shocked to find it in a Christian Magazine review in the first place, but even moreso when i read such a "positive recommendation" for it as opposed to their "guarded recommendation" of THE CALLED (which i believe is all about honoring God) ...
Apparently Soteria is a magazine geared toward younger British Christians, and i surely don't want to appear ungrateful for it at least taking an interest in THE CALLED ... But at the risk of going off on a tangent and coming across as some legalisticaly, extremist Christian, worshiping at the idol of revival, to me something just seems very wrong with this picture ...
As far as i'm concerned the Body of Christ in America (and Britain) are suffering serious spiritual constipation with all of the demonic worldly junk we've taken in and assimilated, and are in dire need of a spiritual purging (revival) of our blockage ... And before any one of us attempts to dismiss ourselves from this need by reasoning that it's "them" and not "me" please understand that if one member of the Body is sick then "we all" have a problem ...
Does anyone think that in the sad shape Christianity is portrayed in today that we'll ever become a glorious Church without spot or blemish without Revival? ... And i'll go on to be so bold as to say if anyone thinks everything in Christ Body (particularly in the US, UK and lets not forget Canada) is ok as it is and in need of nothing, then you're as spiritually blind as a Laodicean!
A key phrase in sis D's post over on the: "Balance, Not Tangents" thread that struck me is "When people dont rest in Christ, Gods plumb line" ... Our Lord has me right now in probably the most peculiar place i've been in thus far in the 27 years i've been saved ... i call it "The Waiting Room" ... It's sorta like a "wilderness" experience in that it's only Him and me, but unlike a wilderness experience it's neither lonely in the sense of my feeling all by myself, or gritty and dirty in the sense of His exposing and expunging some obvious sins in me that need be demolished, or revelatory in the sense of believing the recieving and commisioning of a special outward mission as was my case in the past ... On the contrary this "Waiting Room" is spacious, pure-clean and white, with ample provision of all kinds of spiritual food, has in the midst of it a most plush-big-comfortable chair which faces a door before it that's locked, and a door behind it that i can still open, with but only one instruction i'm hearing from our Lord, "Rest in Me", and i know that the door in front of me will not be opened until i've learned to rest in Him ...
i keep hearing our Lord tell me to rest in Him, and i know why He's saying this to me ... In my own little part of the world, in my own little assignment, i've been on a long mission toward sounding the alarm for our need of repentance, revival, and that things in the Body of Christ are totally out of wack in some serious areas, and then early last year i heard our Lord say, "Cease, I will handle it from here" ... Well to be honest i've had trouble ceasing, which means i'm having trouble in resting in Him ... Why? ... It's not because i don't believe our Lord can and will fix us, it's more of when, which says i have a problem with thinking God is slow ... Bless Him that this is something He cannot tolerate in His servants, and so therefore the best remedy to this unfaithfulness is having to learn to wait/rest in Him until it becomes as natural as breathing ... It also means that now i'm in danger of operating out of perspiration (my own power) instead of His power (unction) and that's something that i don't want to do, plus it's dangerous ...
i thank Him that He's been ministering to me as of late via sister Diane's post (the pendulum or the plumb line) over on the: "Balance, Not Tangents" thread:
... and in particular from this scripture sister D posted;
"Do not be overrighteous, neither be overwise - why destroy yourself? Do not be overwicked, and do not be a fool -
why die before your time? It is good to grasp the one and not let go of the other. The man who fears God will avoid all extremes." Ecc. 7: 16 - 18
Then sister D also posted;
"Its about the pendulum vs the plumb line. The plumb line is Gods perfect standard in all things. A plumb line doesnt swing, but a pendulum does.
In the Old Testament, the plumb line referred to God's immovable, unchangeable standard for Israel. Living by this standard would protect them from harming themselves, and also keep them close to God. God declared, I will make justice the measuring line and righteousness the plumb line. Isa 28:17 In other words, God measured the success of his people according to his fixed standards. Sadly, Israel got completely out of plumb. So God said, I am setting a plumb line among my people Israel; I will spare them no longer. Amos 7:7 Because they refused to center their lives on God's plumb line, they reaped the consequence and experienced tough times."
This got me to thinking ... Is the Body of Christ today, particularly in the Western first world, toeing God's plumb line, or like ancient Israel are we now completely out of plumb? ... If we believe that God is the same yesterday, today and forever, can we as the Body of Christ expect Him to not fix us if we're not living up to His standards? ... Sis D quoted Amos' warning to Israel, in which book it is also says God will not make a move unless He telegraphs it via His extremist (prophets) first ... This got me to thinking that even today there are men burdened with God inspired "tangents" and God inspired "extremism" in attempts of destroying the satan inspired "tangents" and "extremism" that after awhile most folk immersed in such demonic delusion can't even see it anymore ... God in His infinite love would much rather deal with His people via pro-active repentance who've repented via the word of His earthly spokespeople, than out of "re-active" repentance to our having to pay the wages of gross error, which we tend to call His judgment or correction, when in fact we've brought it upon our own heads ... God help us!
But in the midst of all this i've found a key regarding God inspired extremism that's very important and it's this, "When He says cease ... then cease" ... i praise Him that He's teaching me my most hardest lesson in Him thus far ... to simply "rest in Him" ...
i'll be glad the day He graduates me from "The Waiting Room" ...
| 2006/4/12 10:39||Profile|
| Re: He has sent me another "mustard-seed" of encouragement ...|
Below is the first review posted on Amazon by someone i don't personally know (and i'm doing a Holy Ghost dance on my insides right now) ... Thank You Jesus!!! ... :-P
WOW! THE GREATEST BOOK I'VE EVER READ
May 10, 2006
Reviewer: K. Cernik "kc"
And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been CALLED according to his purpose. For those God forknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those he PREDESTINED, he also CALLED; those he called, he also justified, those he justified, he also glorified.Romans 8:28
I have a total of 3 copies that I bought. Im currently passing out to all my friends and family members. Everyone is filled with the Holy spirit when reading this book. It puts things together so amazingly.
The reviewer said "Im currently passing out to all my friends and family members. Everyone is filled with the Holy spirit when reading this book." ...
This is exactly why i believe our Lord gave me this book , as a means of in-gathering to His final harvest, and of future material provision to His Church, commision and charity ...
Blessed be the name of the Lord!!!
| 2006/5/11 12:23||Profile|
Very interesting read so far.
I like the visual story that is painted in these first two chapters. Good stuff, but I have a question... I hope you dont mind if I pick out small part that bothers me (I am not being decisive, just want to give my two cents on a topic).
Each creative day with Jah-el is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. Thus five thousand years had passed in His creation.
I dont see that each day of creation was a 1,000 years (its not stated as such). The bible says in genesis it was a single day as seen here... Gen 1:3-5 "And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day."
The majority of explainations show that it is literally the time space between dawn and dark, or the whole 24 hours; literally (from sunrise to sunset, or from one sunset to the next).
I know the verse you pulled as a ref for this, 2 Peter 3:8 and it says...
(ESV) But do not overlook this one fact, beloved, that [b]with the Lord[/b] one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
(KJVR) But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is [b]with the Lord[/b] as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
(YLT) And this one thing let not be unobserved by you, beloved, that one day [b]with the Lord[/b] is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day;
These translations seem to show (to me anyway) that its not stating that a day [b]is[/b] a thousand years, but that being [b]with God[/b] is outside of time itself and/or that His glory is so powerful and overwhelming that time is not an issue or even considered (when we are in His pressence). It is completeness in the fullest. Lets look at other places where "thousand" was used...
The term "thousand" is also used in the OT to indicate completeness rather than an actual number, such as seen in Psalm 50:10 which says "For every beast of the forest is mine, and the cattle upon a thousand hills." If we take it literally then the cattle on hilltop # 1,001 are not God's. This we know is not true, they ARE all His. So this term thousand is not literal, but rather an old Jewish way to indicate God's completeness by showing stating the extremes (one beast vs thousand). Make sense?
So by looking at other scriptures (let scripture interpret scripture) I can say that 1,000 years is not a day (but that being WITH God is what is important). Besides if an entire day was 1,000 years that means the daylight part would be 500 years and the night also would be 500 years.
Common sense tells me that all the plants created on the third day would die from lack of sunlight (500 years of night) before the forth day came around. This would effect the rest of the creation in that all plants, animals, insects, etc would all die from a 500 year night (IOW that dog just dont hunt). So from what I read, God said He created the world in 7 (24 hour) days and I have to take it at face value.
Like I said, its just my 2 cents, and wondered if you ever thot or seen this "thousand" explained in such a way (or the literal 7 day creation). Again no offense intended - I am looking forward to tomorrow so I can read chapter 3 (its late & I am not feeling too good today). Matter of fact I might even order it :-)
| 2007/1/17 23:56||Profile|
| THE 1,000 YEAR CREATIVE DAY CONCEPT? ...|
Hi bro (Steve) Xtian ...
"Very interesting read so far. I like the visual story that is painted in these first two chapters. Good stuff, but I have a question... I hope you dont mind if I pick out small part that bothers me (I am not being decisive, just want to give my two cents on a topic)."
--- Praise God ... And no i don't mind the questions because the asking of questions, and discussion of God and matters eternal, are why i believe THE CALLED is published in the first place ... i believe thru this Forum our Lord is preparing me ahead of time for the Q&A's i believe forthcoming due to the controversial subject matter of this novel ...
i want to preface my answers by first reiterating the continual faith walk this novel is for me, as i'm still learning about it's subject matter ... THE CALLED is a writing that i don't claim authorship to, tho in publication rules my name appears as such ... It's my belief that God chose me as but a scribe, preparing me from birth (1950) to be schooled in things spiritual i needed initial knowledge of and then to finally lead me (in 1985) to the point of discovery of the books that are fleshed out on the skeleton of Canon Scripture to produce THE CALLED ...
THE CALLED is really a compulation of Genesis chapters 1-32, 1 Enoch, The Book of Adam and Eve, Jubilees, and what i believe to have been divinely inspired visions/imaginings He blessed me with in bridging the gaps ... Much of the joy of recieving THE CALLED were the visions that made me feel like i was there ... Often when i re-read those same visions come back to me ... Anyhow if you read the following books you'll find the same in THE CALLED ...
[b]Wesley Center Online -
[b]The Book of Adam and Eve[/b]
i've caught some grief for believing/stating this novel to be divinely inspired, but if not for the moving of Holy Spirit in it's behalf i see no way that i could have done this myself ... i look at it sometimes and it gives me goose-bumps to even be associated with it ... Before this i'd written nothing, and when He caught me up it sent me on a most amazing mission ... i was 35 when it started, and i won't go into details because that's already spelled out at the beginning of this thread, but the whole experience was like taking dictation ... i felt like a secretary ... i recieved stuff then that i had no idea the controversy it would cause decades later - tho in my peer group my stating that God was talking to me and the subject matter caused fear and concern ... And neither did i get a better understanding of the history of these books and the influence they had on the Jews (prior to and) in Christ time until just recently ... You might want to check this thread out too ...
[b]With No OT Explanations How Did NT Jews Understand NT Descriptions of Hades, Gehenna & Tartarus? ...[/b]
i'm about to get to your 1,000 years as a creative day question(s) but i want to point out something else here i find intriguing ... 1 Enoch states that God originally gave him 366 books to pass on to Methusalah and the righteous at that time, but by the time we get to the period of the Maccabees (2nd century before Christ) apparently that number had really dwindled, then in 96 CE the Rabbis banned it, then the Church of Rome in the 4th century, then it disappears save for surving copies in the Ethiopian church, and by the time they pop up again in The Dead Sea Scrolls (20th century) there are only 1 to three fragments ... My research says that most scholars believe 1 Enoch to be the purest and the one from which Jude quotes ... But the thing that i find fascination is that tho banned it pops up again in the 20th century, and what part of it survives? ... The part that speaks of and explains heaven, sheol, Gehenna, tartarus, fallen angels, demons, and the culmination of the age that so identifies with the Revelation ... Coincidence? ... i think not ... Coincidence that it should find it's way to such a non descript, unlearned, nobody vessel like myself, and tho thru much personal anxiety and anguish wind up finally a published work? ... i think not ...
i believe THE CALLED will be very instrumental in the prompting of discussion, dialogue and debate amongst Christians of subjects we have no clear understanding of as apparently did the Jews and early Christians, as i also believe it will serve in renewed warning as the primary pointing to the fiery and awful eternal consequence of being a part of the Revelation's second death ... On this God and time will tell, but i was encouraged that in the first week of 2007 twenty-three copies were bought ... To God be all the glory! ---
[u][i][b]ABOUT THE 1,000 YEAR CREATIVE DAY ...[/b][/i][/u]
Bro Steve you wrote ...
"I dont see that each day of creation was a 1,000 years (its not stated as such). The bible says in genesis it was a single day as seen here ...I know the verse you pulled as a ref for this, 2 Peter 3:8 and it says...
(KJVR) But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
Common sense tells me that all the plants created on the third day would die from lack of sunlight (500 years of night) before the forth day came around.
--- Amen ... you're right that 2 Peter was the basis for my initial 1,000 year creative day concept ...This was already in me from being raised a JW ... There was a time when i used to detest all that was of my JW raising, but after i came to realize that God had me exactly where He wanted me in His bringing me to Himself, that and my short stint in Catholicism formed me in order to be able to percieve THE CALLED ... Even at kindergarten age was my concept of angels, satan and demons formed in the catholic tradition, then reinforced in the JW ... All i know is that had i not been raised the way that i was i don't believe i would have been conceptually readied to recieve THE CALLED ...
But it wasn't until i started delving into Jubilees then, and the recent unvieling from a historical perspective now, did i really become aware that the 1,000 year creative day was a Jewish concept which can be traced back to at least the 2 century BC, before Peter was inspired by Holy Spirit to pen it much later ... Jubilees is concerned with chronological history and has all to do with time in measurements ... Here's the passage;
[b]Jubilees 4: 29 - 31 "And at the close of the nineteenth jubilee, in the seventh week in the sixth year thereof, Adam died, and all his sons buried him in the land of his creation, and he was the first to be buried in the earth. And he lacked seventy years of one thousand years; for one thousand years are as one day in the testimony of the heavens and therefore was it written concerning the tree of knowledge: 'On the day that ye eat thereof ye shall die.' For this reason he did not complete the years of this day; for he died during it.[/b]
From research i suspect that such books as 1 Enoch, Jubilees, etc., had their origins much earlier than the second century BC ... One thing that just drives me bonkers is when i listen/read where so called ancient history experts say that the writings of the Jews on such subjects as Sheol, hell and angels were subsequently adopted from Sumerian, Zoarastrians, Assyrians, and Babylonian mythology/legend when i believe not only is it the other way around, but that Jewish/shemitic history is the actual oldest of all mankind beginning with Enoch's writings being passed down as the first scribe/prophet, and from it did all other nations adapt it to becoming their own mythologies and legends ... The longest lineage of importance to the entire world is the one from the first Adam to the last (Jesus Himself) ...
i in fact suspect that the info in 1 Enoch is derived from the same Enoch that was translated to heaven, and that when Moses wrote Genesis the reason he didn't write all that is contained in 1 Enoch anew is because they were already familiar with the writing (or at least the oral history), and so Genesis came out a synopsis of a much broader material ... i see the Enochian writings as a pre flood version of our Bible to their benefit, as ours is to us today ... Many Bible scholars today have no such tolerance for such suspecting, but historically speaking one can't end run the fact that these books (and/or oral history) formed a knowledge around Jews and early christians that seem lacking in us today ... No matter tho, God give me the opportunity i'll be putting my reasonings forth in hopes of spurring much talk about God, His plan, etc ... i had a vision up at the Rockefeller Estate of a roundtable of men of God all together, in prayer to Holy Spirit, seeking deeper understanding of the mysteries of Him ... i believe it forthcoming ...
Anyhow i did some research in the OT to find if there was a corresponding concept to Peter's stating a day with God is like a 1,000 years but could find none ... So it must be that again the Jews in Christ time had an understanding, via much like the writing in Jubilees, that God's creative day was a 1,000 year period ... Also i find it corresponding to the significant concept that Christ reign is stated as actually 1,000 years ...
But you said something of this that i think incapsulates it all ... You said, "Common sense tells me" ... On this you're better than myself bro Steve because "what my common sense tells me" and "what God does" seems to be diametrically opposed ... God makes no common sense to me at all in what and how He does things from His sacrificing Christ from before the setting of the foundation of the world, to His creating even tho He knew Adam would fall, to His final solution at the Revelation's end, and all the thousands of years of satanically infected human struggle, suffering and death in between ... But i've seen the Hubble images, and that alone for this puppy is enough to let me know that i don't have to understand Him, what He does, or how He did anything ... All i have to know is that He's my God, my Lord and Savior, and i'm His creation, a chosen vessel of mercy put here to acknowledge Him in prayer, praise and thanksgiving!!! ... Oh bless His Holy name!!! ...
i don't know how God did what He did in 1,000 year creative day intervals, i as a Christrian just like the Jew of old just believe that He did it because it's written ... i do know that our common sense has a tendency to be based on after the fact science of the whole creation being here, but we have no idea what steps God took in order to bring things about to the point that He got to see that it was good ...
Blessings in Christ Jesus! ... :-D
| 2007/1/18 16:17||Profile|
| Re: THE 1,000 YEAR CREATIVE DAY CONCEPT? ...|
It's my belief that God chose me as but a scribe, preparing me from birth (1950) to be schooled in things spiritual i needed initial knowledge of and then to finally lead me (in 1985) to the point of discovery of the books that are fleshed out on the skeleton of Canon Scripture to produce THE CALLED ..
It's my belief that it is nonsensical fiction which will confuse people who have not studied the scriptures on the topics. To claim to be 'a scribe' is to claim the same kind of inspiration that underlies the scriptures. This is as dangerous and false an assumption as your claim to be a 'prophet'.
| 2007/1/19 6:49||Profile|
| Just a Little While Longer Brother Ron ...|
Hi bro Ron (Happy 2007!) ...
"It's my belief that it is nonsensical fiction which will confuse people who have not studied the scriptures on the topics. To claim to be 'a scribe' is to claim the same kind of inspiration that underlies the scriptures. This is as dangerous and false an assumption as your claim to be a 'prophet'."
---You know when you first came at me on this subject i didn't know as much as i know abour it now and i was very intimidated by you ... Notice i didn't say you were trying to intimidate me, i was just intimidated, and frankly scared to broach this subject, as well as my belief that i'm called of God as a NT prophet in His Church ...
Well i'm neither scared, or intimidated anymore, and as i've said before God and time will shortly tell ... But in the interim i continue to espouse in the same vien of faith that i've been on for so long and grant that you are entitled to your "belief" about this novel and myself, but it will not deter me one iota from backing down on my own "belief" ...
What i write about is my experience in the Lord, which obvously is much different than your own, but both of us have to do as we believe led of Holy Spirit ... You believe yourself used of Him to go to the Himalayas, i believe myself used of Him to write, publish and discuss The Called ... i don't expect you to be anything less to your faith, and if you think you or anyone else can disconnect me from mine you're sadly mistaken ... Only God can do it, and that's why i pray if i'm on a wrong track that He will free me from it ...
i was really hoping that you'd address the other thread ...
[b] With No OT Explanations How Did NT Jews Understand NT Descriptions of Hades, Gehenna & Tartarus? ...[/b]
i've asked you before if you've read 1 Enoch and Jubilees, but you never answered ... Have you? ... If so can you please tell me what in these writings you think will confuse people? ... In my research i've found that had you been born a Jew when Christ was here you'd not have such suspicions of these books because they were read and believed ... That's historical ...
i even said that i hope you'd read The Called, so that you could at least attack it from a first hand knowledge ... Have you? ... i know brother Robert has, perhaps he could comment on whether there's anything so confusing in it ... Soteria Magazine reviewed it and said they couldn't find an instance in it that went against scripture ... That's an even better track record than The Left Behind series ... All the christian folk that i personally know who have read it have been prompted to ask questions and delve deeper into Bible study ... The few unsaved folk that i know, and know of from others, who have read it have come and asked me, or the person that gave it to them, where such info is found in scripture (especially regarding the afterlife) ... The whole premise of The Called, if you read the jacket, is pointed toward telling God's story/plan, pointing to the Bible itself, and prayerfully subsequent salvation in Christ to the reader ... i'm hearing nothing but good reports, but based on your beliefs you fear it will confuse people? ... Come on bro Ron, God has not given us the spirit of fear but of power, love and a sound mind ... Again may i implore your putting your sound mind to reading The Called before pitting your fear against it ...
In closing on this subject, and what i believe my calling, you remind me a lot of the F. Murray Abraham character in the movie Joshua ... If you haven't seen it it's about a guy who comes into a community and begins doing wondrous things that really upsets the status quo ... i personally think that God is in the process of upsetting the status quo, and historically how does he always do that? ... By introducing a controversial figure with a controversial message ...
Bro Ron you are wise, i am foolish, if God and time proves me misguided you already knew it of me, but if God and time proves me (and The Called) of Him, then you're on the road to being confounded ...
In the meanwhile i praise Him for His use of you in my refining ...
Blessings in Jesus! --- :-D
| 2007/1/19 9:58||Profile|
| Re: Just a Little While Longer Brother Ron ...|
I appreciate the reply and I thot I would keep my reply short but as I looked deeper at the subject this will not be the case. Honestly I am more concerned with the bible and what it says because it is the standard the bible is not "a skeleton" on (as you stated) which we build our faith and beliefs on, it is complete in every way, shape and form. To state otherwise indicates that the bible is lacking in doctrine and that it is an unfinished work (not true). I believe the bible is the inspired word of God and there are no contradictions (I used to think there were but after proper research, the bible has again and again proven to have no contradictions, and will last for eternity). In light of this, everthing should be held to this standard.
So how do I see other works of antiquity, like the ones you mentioned? If they dont mesh with the bible, there is no reason to pursue it further or give it the same credence and authority as the bible (as you have), even if it was supposedly written by other bible characters (most of which are "false" texts as Ron pointed out). I dont accept any belief or writing just because its old, or because Jews of old believed such things back then (that is sloppy hermeneutics). If it was banned then obviously it was for good reason (probably because it caused problems with other scriptures found in the bible). For me everything should be held up against the bible (its THE standard to which we measure everything by). Anyway on to your statements
... you're right that 2 Peter was the basis for my initial 1,000 year creative day concept ...This was already in me from being raised a JW ... There was a time when i used to detest all that was of my JW raising, but after i came to realize that God had me exactly where He wanted me in His bringing me to Himself, that
The problem by pulling 2 Peter out of context for your 1,000 year day (aside from banned works AND teachings from a false religion) beyond the obvious is that there is no biblical support or direction for using it in the Genesis creation. No where in the bible does it say that 1 day IS a 1,000 years during creation (rather its one day [u]WITH[/u] the Lord is [u]LIKE[/u] a thousand years
still you disregard the obvious). The bible does not say that the verse in 2 Peter is the key to unlocking the creation described in Genesis (IOW you are pulling it out of context; and the key to scripture interpretation is "context, context, context"). You have also forgotten the Golden Rule of Hermeneutics, which is "If the plain sense makes common sense, seek no other sense." This is something that has long past the test of time and God's standard, the bible.
You also state that your 1,000 year creative day comes from the JWs (Jehovah Witnesses)...
last time I checked there was no redeeming doctrine that came from the JWs. Its a false religion that directly opposes Gods word (the bible) and the deity of Jesus Christ our Lord. Its a man centered, works oriented religion that misses the mark and is leading millions to Hell. Just because you were raised a JW doesnt mean you should take what they teach and try to add it to biblical doctrine. Your logic that God had me their so I can use it", is faulty logic and reason especially when it cause problems with the bible as I will point out later on.
But it wasn't until i started delving into Jubilees then, and the recent unvieling from a historical perspective now, did i really become aware that the 1,000 year creative day was a Jewish concept which can be traced back to at least the 2 century BC, before Peter was inspired by Holy Spirit to pen it much later ... Jubilees is concerned with chronological history and has all to do with time in measurements ... Here's the passage;
Jubilees 4: 29 - 31 "And at the close of the nineteenth jubilee, in the seventh week in the sixth year thereof, Adam died, and all his sons buried him in the land of his creation, and he was the first to be buried in the earth. And he lacked seventy years of one thousand years; for one thousand years are as one day in the testimony of the heavens and therefore was it written concerning the tree of knowledge: 'On the day that ye eat thereof ye shall die.' For this reason he did not complete the years of this day; for he died during it.
the above non-scriptural, banned text does not say that each creation day was 1,000 years. Mater of fact IT CONTRADICTS ITSELF!
If you assume such you are in grave error you see that if each day was a literal 1,000 years then Adam would be much older than 930 years old. IOW the non-biblical text you choose for your support CONDRADICTS itself when you insist that it proves a 1,000 year creation day!
The text you gave again uses extremes to prove a point, (again back to proper hermeneutics - specifically in the area of OT figures of speech) 1,000 indicates how impossible it would be to report on the fullness and completeness of our God which is in heaven &/or His completeness and awesome Glory, power, etc, which is overwhelming.
Rahman, if you use non-canonized sources to build doctrine and beliefs, which contradict the bible, why are you holding fast to it? It obviously creates problems, not only in the bible but in your non-scriptural texts as well (your sloppy hermeneutics is evident even in the banned texts as I pointed out). According to you, its because it was an old Jewish concept from 2 BC, but [u]just because its old or Jewish doesnt mean it should be considered or condoned as proper, Christian doctrine[/u], especially when it creates more problems later in scripture
For instance: you say each creation day was 1,000 years. This causes numerous problems in the bible (which effects both Christians and the Lost)
If the days of creation were 1,000 years each...
1. The author of Genesis made a mistake in his writings proving that its not the inspired word of God (hard to convince the lost its inspired when there are errors, or build up the saints for the same reason).
2. Then the creation in Genesis is in error. Plants, animals, etc died due to the 500 year nights which would require God to re-create everything after each day including Adam (also not recorded or addressed); This is another major assault on Gods word (and the common sense He gave to His children who study His word just because you dont understand some things about God doesnt mean you shouldnt discount common sense either). Again you choose to forget that "If the plain sense makes common sense, seek no other sense."
3. Then Genesis chapter 5, verse 5 is also wrong (Adam lived nine hundred and thirty years: and he died). According to you Adam should have lived @ 2,430 years instead of 930 years; again showing that Genesis/the bible is a work of errors and contradictions, and not to be trusted.
4. If the years that Adam lived are in error, then [u]the whole 5th chapter of Genesis is also in error[/u].
5. If Genesis has multiple errors then its also possible that the verse In the beginning God
is also in error and that the whole bible is nothing more than just a collection of fables and fairy tales. So how can anyone believe that the bible is the inspired word of God when the first book is filled with so many errors?
*Note: More serious problems arise in scripture by changing the seven (24 hour) days of creation, because some disciples and [u]even Jesus himself quotes Genesis[/u] [b](this calls into question where Jesus quoted from an errored source and thus committed a sin!)[/b] I wont go into more detail because the point is extremely clear. If you look for all the times someone quoted or refered to Genesis, the problems caused are huge (If you dont see this, then there is not much else for me to say, but I will continue with the rest of my reply anyway).
So Rahman, does the insistence of having a 1,000 year day during creation warrant creating such errors, contradictions and heresy? Does weakening the faith of believers and giving the Lost a reason to NOT believe worth the insistence? Does the implication that Jesus knowingly used an errored source (a sin of ommission or commission), and thus proving His lack of deity, worth it?
[b]The answer is a resounding and thundering NO![/b]
The bible and its lack of contradictions and errors, when used by itself, is something that I and millions of other Christians throughout history have relied on when we defend the faith &/or witness to the Lost. It has withstood the test of time, which far surpasses your meager time and experiences here on earth. Unfortunately you would rather stick to your guns regardless of what other believers warn and scripture says. Ummm
The end result: if there are multiple errors in just the first book of the bible, then it calls into question not only the inspiration and authority of Genesis but als the entire bible; it also calls into question the very deity of Jesus Christ - His life, death and resurrection; sin, repentance, redemption, Heaven, hell, judgment, sanctification, etc. Its just not worth the trouble to insist on a 1,000 year creation day; it causes too many problems and doing so basically calls God a liar
gee, maybe that is why the texts you adore so much are banned. Yep I do believe that is why.
Anyhow i did some research in the OT to find if there was a corresponding concept to Peter's stating a day with God is like a 1,000 years but could find none ...
BINGO! You just admitted that scripture doesnt support it! SO WHY ARE YOU STILL INSISTING ON USING IT? Perhaps there is hope for you after all
So it must be that again the Jews in Christ time had an understanding, via much like the writing in Jubilees, that God's creative day was a 1,000 year period ... Also i find it corresponding to the significant concept that Christ reign is stated as actually 1,000 years ...
You have missed the point and what the bible commands.
It doesnt matter what some Jews of that time believed, it could be that they were wrong - its actually proven by these texts being banned (you seen to discount this despite the bibles warnings that there would be many false religions, false Christs, false gospels, beliefs, etc). The best way is to see if they were wrong is not to embrace their writings and try to make them fit in the bible, but to hold it against the standard God gave us, the bible, and measure it accordingly. In my opinion, and apparently to many others, this 1,000 year day of creation, among other things, has proven to be more destructive than anything else (its an assault on the deity of Christ and His sinless life).
But you said something of this that i think incapsulates it all ... You said, "Common sense tells me" ... On this you're better than myself bro Steve because "what my common sense tells me" and "what God does" seems to be diametrically opposed ... God makes no common sense to me at all in what and how He does things...
so youre saying that because God doesnt make sense to you in some cases, that all common sense should be discounted? Wow, talk about faulty logic and sloppy hermeneutics (it seems to be a recurring theme in your replies)... God throughout His word, and His creation, is full of common sense, wisdom, reason, logic, knowledge, wonders and mysteries, [u]but because one does not know everything God did, it does not mean we are to discount all common sense, reason, logic, etc[/u]. Nowhere in the bible does it say or suggest such nonsense.
Again you miss the Golden Rule of Hermeneutics
"If the plain sense makes common sense, seek no other sense." Which has been proven as true over thousands of years.
i as a Christrian just like the Jew of old just believe that He did it because it's written ...
First of all a NT Christian and an OT Jew are not the same thing.
You say you believe a 1,000 year creation day because it was written somewhere besides the bible? You say you believe just like the Jews of old, but your not believing what was written IN THE BIBLE. Again just because some Jews of old believed it, doesnt make it right or biblical. There are many examples of OT Jews who has beliefs different from God's word and they paid a terrible price for falling away from His truth. Thats dangerous territory no wonder you are encountering resistance to your book and beliefs.
we have no idea what steps God took in order to bring things about to the point that He got to see that it was good ...
True we dont know the exact steps, but we do know for a fact that each day of creation took 24 hours - if you take the creation account at face value there are no contradictions whatsoever. If we say otherwise it causes errors and contradictions throughout the rest of scripture and that is something the bible does not do.
I would suggest Rahman that you depend more on the bible than any other work out there. We know for a fact that if we follow the bible there is no error and we are secure in our salvation in doing so; BUT we are not assured the authority or correctness of any other works which you presented. The NT warns many times to not heed other gospels, or "other messages", and those who go after new revelations (the final revelation what the of Jesus Christ); I would have to agree that you are walking on thin ice. My question to you, if what you believe, which is not in the bible, results in Jesus telling you at the seat of judgment to Depart from Me I never knew you! instead of believing the bible and being welcomed into Heaven, why take the chance? To me you are playing with fire.
As for you logic (my comments in bold)
1. You basically say "Its my experience of so it must be true [b]This is not what the bible calls us to do it calls us to continually assess ourselves, and then we should look to His word to see if we are following His standard, not to rely on what we think, feel or believe.[/b]
it will not deter me one iota from backing down on my own "belief" ... [b]Strange I thot we were to follow the beliefs and doctrines that we find in the bible, and to not lean unto our own understandings... for the heart of man is deceitfully wicked and cannot be trusted.[/b]
that's why i pray if i'm on a wrong track that He will free me from it ... [b]The problem here is that your voluntarily heading away from the bible towards banned works and damning beliefs (JW). You have purposely strayed from the bibles established doctrines and state that no man will ever deter you. If you wont listen to the warnings of fellow believers (as commanded in the bible), why do you think that God will supernaturally bring you back from this voluntary error? This is not seen in scripture.[/b]
4. What i write about is my experience in the Lord, which obvously is much different than your own, but both of us have to do as we believe led of Holy Spirit ... [b]Your assuming that your being led by the Holy Spirit, but if that is true, then why did the Holy Spirit allow you to believe, write and publish a concept/beliefs that go against the bible
which causes contradictions and calls into question the deity of Jesus Christ and His atoning work?[/b]
5. He sparked my search with a small pamphlet entitled The Rules of War between the Sons of light and the Sons of Darkness, divinely placed for me at my local laundromat ... [b]Your assuming it was God. You totally discount that Satan can appear as an angel of light and is the ruler of this world? IOW we are strangers in a strange land -because we are invading Satan's territory with God' word (to teach and preach the Good News). Do you not think that Satan can place heretical books and the like, to keep people from the narrow path of salvation? You need to look at who we are up against brother.[/b]
6. I fully realize that whatsoever is not of faith is sin, and everything that I've done on behalf of this novel has been done out of the fire of that extra gift measure of FAITH and The Called stands on that faith [b]The bible also says that if anyone preaches a gospel different than the one we find in the bible, it is also sin, and more importantly that we should flee from such things. Your statement demands that your faith supercedes the authority and teachings of the bible, and that is wrong. Our faith and beliefs NEVER supercede the authority and standards as set forth in God's word.[/b]
7. It's funny, thus far it seems learned men and Bible scholars would like to tar and feather me for its penning while more simple folk as myself seem to be inspired by it. [b]So you discount the learned men who have studied the bible extensively and have warned you of its error, but you side with the simple folk who are not, all because they are inspired??? Rahman, I would take the correction of the bible scholars and learned men over the praise of simple and foolish folk. Your statement that if anyone is "inspired" then any written work or belief that contradicts the bible is acceptable; that inspiration supercedes the authority and standards as set forth in God's word... is so wrong.[/b]
8. i consider THE CALLED divinely inspired. [b]The only book that is divinely inspired is the bible - but that is just me, and apparently many learned and bible scholars think the same. Perhaps the main reason I am so adamant that we should only stay true to the bible, is what Jesus Himself said Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away. Luke 21:33. Since the teachings of banned works contradicts the bible, common sense, and God's word, says to hold fast to what will last forever.[/b]
(The Called) does not in any obvious way contradict anything in the Bible and is keen to use Bible references to back up his writings.". Contradicting the Bible or our God is the very last thing i'd ever want to do, [b]Now I have shown that it does contradict the bible in a BIG way, and that its very obvious, and that its very dangerous. I used in context scriptures to do so (along with many others). If you are a man of your word, you will take this correction and stop this nonsense, if not, you will have to give an account for your actions. I pray you make the right choice.[/b]
10. Soteria Magazine reviewed it and said they couldn't find an instance in it that went against scripture ... [b]Your assuming that they compared it to the bible (and the person who reviewed is knowledgable of the bible and its doctrines). I have pointed out some serious faults and errors by insisting on a 1,000 year creation day and how it does go against scripture at its core. As I read this thread, others have also voiced their concerns with solid scriptural support, but despite their warnings and mine, you choose to hold fast to your beliefs, which are not found in the bible. For me an my house we are going to hold fast to Gods word, because it is the one thing, that I know for a fact, that will last for eternity. I suggest that you do the same.[/b]
11. "... i'm called of God as a NT prophet in His Church ..." [b]I extremely disagree in light of your sources and how you deal with scripture (the bible). I would like to see just one godly prophet [u]in the bible[/u] that used banned texts, who borrowed ideas from false religions, who used false concepts and teachings, and was a prophet of God. The answer is quite clear... [u]there is NOT ONE minor or major prophet who has ever done this in the bible[/u]. If you seriously study the word of God you will see that when God did use contraversy it NEVER conflicted with His word (the bible); it only conflicted with the ways of idle and foolish men. IMHO (and quite sadly I might add), you are straying from the faith, or at least God's word.[/b]
In closing, I want to again point out that my reply is not meant to be mean spirited or meant as a personal attack (no ad hominems were thrown at you), I posted it with much study and prayer. I originally thot that this error of a 1,000 year day of creation was a minor affair but as you can see it calls into question the whole of scripture. My reply is a correction based solely on God word (the bible). Your beliefs, the documents and false religions you get them from, cause obvious problems when compared to God's standard, the bible, but as of yet you have chosen to disregard the warnings and try to force these things into scripture and it just doesnt worl. If you continue on this path, the only thing I can do is pray that you will heed the bible and its words.
I just hope that you dont take this as "refining" as you have said to others, where you ignore your errors and continue to depart from scripture. The errors and contradictions are clear, but you still hold fast to what is false. I know that you are sincere and that you have had deep spiritual experiences in the past, but in light of the bible, you are sincerely wrong. Being wrong can have some serious and eternal consequences. Please take time to aline yourself with the bible and the bible alone.
My thots and prayers are going out to you.
| 2007/1/20 12:22||Profile|
| i'm Trusting Him to Work This Out to my Good ... i Know He is ...|
Hi bro (Steve) Xtian ...
"You wrote" ...
"the bible is not "a skeleton" on (as you stated) which we build our faith and beliefs on, it is complete in every way, shape and form."
--- That's not what i said, but no matter because it seems not many hear clearly what i say/write and the more i try to clarify the more muddier the waters get ... i felt led of our Lord to say to another brother: Peace, be still ... Sounds like good advice for me to ...
You asked me why my belief on a 1,000 year creative day and i told you, now you've told me why your disbelief ... So to this i can only say ok ... i assembled The Called exactly as i heard it, saw it, was led to, and really didn't question much ... If you were to talk to anyone who knew me then they'd tell you i was on a single minded mission ... Think what you will about the writing it still does not cancel out the fact that i understand more about this novel now than i did then (which in retrospect to me seems really odd), and now am at a loss as to how i could have ever concieved of and put together such a thing on my own ... If i did i'm way more talented than i have knowledge of ---
Bro Xtian you wrote;
"I just hope that you dont take this as "refining" as you have said to others, where you ignore your errors and continue to depart from scripture. The errors and contradictions are clear, but you still hold fast to what is false. I know that you are sincere and that you have had deep spiritual experiences in the past, but in light of the bible, you are sincerely wrong. Being wrong can have some serious and eternal consequences. Please take time to aline yourself with the bible and the bible alone.
My thots and prayers are going out to you."
--- You know bro Steve i had an agonizing time of prayer and seeking our Lord's feet over this weekend ... Kind of a pity party actually, asking Him why i'm in this regarding my believed calling by Him and the writing of this novel ... i told Him again i didn't ask for this, how my initial salvation experience seemed normal enough - then wham! ... i know to write/talk about my experiences eventually draws ire, but i can only communicate what i live, and what i believe i hear Him telling me ... Horrible place to be actually because it fits no norms ... i don't try/want to be different, i want to fit in, be accepted, but soon after my salvation i found myself saying things that really irked folk ... Stuff like anti-denominationalism, love amongst brethren regardless of denomination, the word about final Revival, the massive need for Joel chapter 1 & 2 repentance, the writting of The Called and God On Earth, and a promised ministry ... At first it started out like some great spiritual adventure, then it began to turn into nothing but pure pain ... i began to feel like Jeremiah, that somehow God had fooled me, putting me in places of fire that i began to rebel against, to the point that like Jonah i really tried to run away from it, but His ever constant pursuit dogged me, till i wound up doing the very things that i believed i was hearing Him say do ...
One of the main reasons i concider others wiser than myself is because they're so "sure" against what i believe as being from God in my Christian experience, and i'm not ... i was foolish from the start because i didn't know any better, which is why i believe Holy Spirit caught me then before i became wise enough in learning how not to believe that He could operate in me in the capacity i'm experiencing ... See i was initially taught that Holy Spirit would operate in me, but when my experience began surpassing others parameters it began to get dicey ... Over the years i've tried to wisen up, but i'm still hopelessly foolish and so i continue to hold on and operate in this capacity of faith that i just can't shake on my own ... i'm a pretty tenacious guy, a trait which i believe God is using in me to His glory and a huge reason why i have a tendency to keep holding onto what i believe He's had me do, say and write ... That is why i said only God can free me if i'm in error ...
So as far as "refining" is concerned i'm learning not to take what is painful as being less than positive, and thus far everything it seems our Lord has me involved in brings me much pain ... Rejection, always rejection, it's like i've been groomed to be rejected ... But God says that "ALL things work together for the good of we that love Him and are called according to His purpose", so i have to trust Him that He's got a good finish ... i certainly see Rom. 8:28 working towards my refinement (good) in this arena, as it is with you, and others "called" ... We may not be able to see HOW just yet, but faith says that it's SO anyhow ... So if i'm in need of being clarified to an error of my ways all this is still working toward my good, a refining if you will of the elimination of my errors ...
Thank you for your thoughts of concern, and i really mean this from the bottom of my heart ... And thank you bontifully for your prayers on my behalf ...
Blessings in Christ Jesus ... :-D ---
| 2007/1/22 15:09||Profile|
| Re: i'm Trusting Him to Work This Out to my Good ... i Know He is ...|
[i]"As firmly believed by the author this novel is a divinely inspired compliment to the first 32 chapters of Genesis, intent only on making Gods story/plan clearer to truth seekers."[/i]
Complement means to accompany helpfully (help+full).
A thing is said to be "a complement" to something else, if it is helpful to the other thing.
A hamburger and ketchup complement each other, because they taste good together. The two things are complementary.
[u][i]2Ti 3:16, 17 All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works. [/i][/u]
2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
When any person writes something that they acclaim as being "divinely inspired" and a "complement to the bible" it must be tested against the word.
| 2007/1/22 16:23||Profile|