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Discussion Forum : General Topics : If you celebrate Good Friday... You're too late!

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Here4Him
Member



Joined: 2006/9/23
Posts: 212
England

 Re:

Thanks Walter, that was brilliant, really helpful!

So does that explain how it can be said that Jesus was in the tomb for 3 days and 3 nights and how He rose on the third day?

George


_________________
George Platt

 2008/3/24 7:25Profile
MSeaman
Member



Joined: 2005/4/19
Posts: 772
Michigan

 Re: If you celebrate Good Friday... You're too late!

I noticed that Passover for the Jews this year is from April 20-27. Why do we not celebrate the crufixion and resurrection at that time? I know the gregorian calendar sets easter based on the moon, but why do Christians follow that instead of the Passover for the celebration of our Resurrected Lord? Maybe some of you do? Just curious.


_________________
Melissa

 2008/3/27 12:14Profile









 Re:

Quote:
I noticed that Passover for the Jews this year is from April 20-27. Why do we not celebrate the crufixion and resurrection at that time? I know the gregorian calendar sets easter based on the moon, but why do Christians follow that instead of the Passover for the celebration of our Resurrected Lord? Maybe some of you do? Just curious.






There's a difference between the way Western and Eastern Christians calculate the date of Easter/Pascha.

For the west, it's the first Sunday after the first full moon after the vernal equinox.

For the east, it's the first Sunday after the first full moon after the vernal equinox AFTER Passover.

The dates have been close the last couple of years - last year western Easter and Eastern Pascha were the same day. And this is why Passover has fallen at about the same time as Easter. This year, it's alot later.

Katy


Added:
Some believe it was anti-Semitism which was responsible for the Christian church's adoption of Easter over the Passover which has Old Testament (Jewish) roots. A brutal and vicious persecution against the Jews had started from early under Emperor Hadrian who outlawed Jewish practices and customs."

Hadrian was not a Christian so his persecution of Jews cannot be laid at the door of the church. Also, the relations between Christians and Jews in the early centuries of the church is not as it has often been depicted. It was much worse later.


Emporer Hadrian marked the beginning of the move away from keeping with the jewish calander, completed by Constantine making Rome christian in 313 AD Or 331??? which was then codified at the council of nycea.

 2008/3/27 12:29









 Re:

Mseaman, here is another question. Did the early Church actually celebrate Easter or did they celebrate Pentecost? Paul is speaking here and we know the Day of Pentecost Paul then Saul was not even saved. Also Pentecost was 50 days after the resurrection of Jesus Christ. Anyone know this?



Acts 20:16
For Paul had determined to sail by Ephesus, because he would not spend the time in Asia: for he hasted, if it were possible for him, to be at Jerusalem the day of Pentecost.

Katy

 2008/3/27 13:00
MSeaman
Member



Joined: 2005/4/19
Posts: 772
Michigan

 Re:

Katy,
I'd have to do more research, but I think that the early church (like after Christ's resurrection) celebrated Pentecost. It is a separate Jewish feast, I think. I don't believe that the fulfillment of the Holy Spirit promise falling on another Jewish feast time is a coincidence. Let me look it up and then post again.

edited to add Pentecost information:

1.) Pentecost is derived from the Greek name for Shavuot, one of the three Pilgrimage Festivals required in the Law of Moses. It is described mainly in Leviticus 23:5-21 and Deuteronomy 16:8-10. As in Leviticus the Pesah (Passover) begins "in the fourteenth day of the first month (14 Aviv) at even", and the next day begins "the feast of unleavened bread unto the Lord" which lasts for seven days (servile work being prohibited). This celebration also marks the beginning of harvest activities (in a Mediterranean climate), therefore "a sheaf of the firstfruits" of the harvest will be waved by the priest before Yahweh "on the morrow after the sabbath". Then, verses 15 and 16 state:

And ye shall count unto you from the morrow after the sabbath, from the day that ye brought the sheaf of the wave offering; seven sabbaths shall be complete:/ Even unto the morrow after the seventh sabbaths shall ye number fifty days (Hebrew: hamishshim yom; Greek: πεντήκοντα ἡμέρας, pentekonta hemeras) and ye shall offer a new meat offering unto the LORD.


2.)Name given by the Greek-speaking Jews to the festival which occurred fifty days (ἡ πεντηκόστη, sc. ἡΜέρα = "Ḥag Ḥamishshim Yom"; comp. Lev. xxiii. 16) after the offering of the barley sheaf during the Passover feast (Tobit ii. 1; II Macc. xii. 32; Josephus, "Ant." iii. 10, § 6; I Cor. xvi. 8; Philo, "De Septenario," §21). The Feast of the Fiftieth Day has been a many-sided one (comp. Book of Jubilees, vi. 21: "This feast is twofold and of a double nature"), and as a consequence has been called by many names. In the Old Testament it is called the "Feast of Harvest" ("Ḥag ha-Ḳaẓir"; Ex. xxiii. 16) and the "Feast of Weeks" ("Ḥag Shabu'ot"; ib. xxxiv. 22; Deut. xvi. 10; II Chron. viii. 13; Aramaic, "Ḥagga di-Shebu'aya," Men. 65a; Greek, έορτὴ έΒδοΜάδων), also the "Day of the First-Fruits" ("Yom ha-Bikkurim"; Num. xxviii. 26; ήΜέρα τῶν νεῶν, LXX.). In the later literature it was called also the "closing festival" ("'aẓeret"; Ḥag. ii. 4; Aramaic, "'aẓarta"; Pes. 42b; Greek, ἄσαρθα Josephus, l.c.). It is called, too, the "closing season of the Passover" ("'aẓeret shel Pesaḥ"; Pesiḳ. xxx. 193) to distinguish it from the seventh day of Passover and from the closing day of the Feast of Tabernacles, i.e., the end of the fruit harvest (Lev. xxiii. 36; Num. xxix. 35; Deut. xvi. 8).

3.) Christians understand Pentecost as a powerful feast of the salvation, because it speaks about the giving of the Law on Mount Sinai, about the founding of the Church, and about the Final Judgement. Pentecost can be seen parallel to Shavout, As Easter is to Passover. On Passover, the Jews were delivered from slavery in Egypt; On Easter, mankind was delivered from slavery to sin. On Shavout the Children of Israel received the Law; On Pentecost, the Church received the fullness of the Holy Spirit. Some basic numerology will enlighten us more: hamishshim yom is day 7²+1. 7² points to the Creation after eschaton, i.e. the "new heaven" and the "new earth" from Revelation 21:1; while the +1 shows Who is involved in the process: Yahweh, the Lord of the covenant (the mûlâ, Jewish circumcision, which is "a token of the covenant", must be done on the 7+1 day from birth), in Jewish mentality; Yahweh, the Lord of the covenant, through Jesus resurrected (the Resurrection took place in the 7+1 day of the week), in Christian mentality.

The events experienced by the Apostles in Jerusalem during khag shavuot were understood by the Apostles as the sending of the Holy Ghost, which had been promised by Jesus (John 14:26):

But the Comforter [παράκλητος], which is the Holy Ghost [το πνευμα το ‘άγιον], Whom the Father will send in My name, He shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.


_________________
Melissa

 2008/3/27 14:59Profile









 Re:

Quote:

Here4Him wrote:
Thanks Walter, that was brilliant, really helpful!

So does that explain how it can be said that Jesus was in the tomb for 3 days and 3 nights and how He rose on the third day?

George



My Response:

Yes, George, that is how Christ fulfilled the propehcy, that He gave of Himself, in Matthew 12:40-41 [b](most Christians today doubt that He actually fulfilled this prophecy)[/b] :
For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here.

One of our problems that we have, as well as Bible Scholars and Textural Critics, is no understaning of the idioms and the customs of the Ancient Jews, nor the way that they kept time, nor to their understanding of time itself. We (us, as well as the "experts" mentioned above) also have no understanding of the Feasts of the Lord, the High Sabbath Days, and all of the special requirements and restrictions that God commandeded for these "special" days, found thoughout His Old Testament (Old Covenant) Word.

Once we understand these things, then the Words of the Old Testament Bible and our New Testament come alive with new meaning and understanding. It also increases our faith, and we see Christ for who He really is------------God Almighty, Immanuel, Johovah, The Angel of the Lord, Alpha & Omega, King of Kings, Author of the Faith, Friend of Sinners, Son of Man, The Seed of the woman----who has earned our worship, and our praise, and our devotion, forever.

We can also "see" Christ throughout the Old Testament.Remember when Christ appeared to the two men on their way to Emmaus, and how He witnessed to them of Himself using the [b]Old Testament only? The New Testament had not even been written yet![/b]

Luke 24:13-34
13. And, behold, two of them went that same day to a village called Emmaus, which was from Jerusalem about threescore furlongs. 14. And they talked together of all these things which had happened. 15. And it came to pass, that, while they communed together and reasoned, Jesus himself drew near, and went with them. 16. But their eyes were holden that they should not know him. 17. And he said unto them, What manner of communications are these that ye have one to another, as ye walk, and are sad? 18. And the one of them, whose name was Cleopas, answering said unto him, Art thou only a stranger in Jerusalem, and hast not known the things which are come to pass there in these days? 19. And he said unto them, What things? And they said unto him, Concerning Jesus of Nazareth, which was a prophet mighty in deed and word before God and all the people: 20. And how the chief priests and our rulers delivered him to be condemned to death, and have crucified him. 21. But we trusted that it had been he which should have redeemed Israel: and beside all this, to day is the third day since these things were done. 22. Yea, and certain women also of our company made us astonished, which were early at the sepulchre; 23. And when they found not his body, they came, saying, that they had also seen a vision of angels, which said that he was alive. 24. And certain of them which were with us went to the sepulchre, and found it even so as the women had said: but him they saw not. 25.[b][color=CC0000] Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken: 26. Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory? 27. And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself[/color][/b] 28. And they drew nigh unto the village, whither they went: and he made as though he would have gone further. 29. But they constrained him, saying, Abide with us: for it is toward evening, and the day is far spent. And he went in to tarry with them. 30. And it came to pass, as he sat at meat with them, he took bread, and blessed it, and brake, and gave to them. 31. And their eyes were opened, and they knew him; and he vanished out of their sight. 32. [b][color=CC0000] And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures? [/color][/b]33. And they rose up the same hour, and returned to Jerusalem, and found the eleven gathered together, and them that were with them,34. Saying, The Lord is risen indeed, and hath appeared to Simon.

We should all have that same kind of understanding and mastery of the Old Testament.

Truly, the Old Testament is the New Testament concealed, and the New Testament is the Old Testament revealed.

Sincerely,

Walter

 2008/3/28 0:00









 Re:

Quote:

Here4Him wrote:
Thanks Walter, that was brilliant, really helpful!

So does that explain how it can be said that Jesus was in the tomb for 3 days and 3 nights and how He rose on the third day?

George



Hello, George.

I thought that I would respond further to your remarks. The Jews have an entirely different understanding of time. I would like to add clarificiation, directly from the Bible, to illustrate this point.


[b][color=0000FF]How the Jews reckoned time.[/color][/b]

The first day of the Week, Sunday, actually started on Saturday night at 6:00 P.M. and continued through till 6:00 P.M. Sunday. The rest of the days followed suit (i.e. Monday started off where Sunday left off- Monday started on Sunday evening at 6:00 P.M. and ended Monday evening at 6:00 P.M.), etc. etc. etc. The evenings were set up in "watches" that I won't go into here.

Also, they practiced morning and evening sacrifices on each and every day of the week. The morning sacrifice was at the 3rd hour (9:00 A.M.) and the evening sacrifice was at 3:00 P.M., the 9th hour. Of note, Christ was crucified on the cross at the 3 rd hour (9:00 A.M.) and gave up the ghost at the 9th hour (3:00 P.M.).

Any part of a day to the Jews was considered to be the entire day. If a Jew received a guest at the 9th hour, and they went home at the 10th hour, they considered that to be the entire day.


[b][color=0000FF]For more understanding of the Jewish reckoning of days, go to Acts 10:8-33. This is a detailed read, but very fruitful. In Acts 10:30 CORNELIUS EXPLAINS THAT 4 DAYS AGO he had been fasting.[/color][/b]

Lets say that this was a Tuesday (just to clarify the example for counting days) and Cornelius gets an answer to prayer at the 9th hour (3:00 P.M.). He is visited by an Angel who instructs him what to do.He immediately sends 3
men to Joptha to bring Peter back. The men left immediately at this time

(about 3:00 P.M. or shortly after).

They rested that night, which was the first half of Wednesday (Jewish time-day starts at 6:00 P.M.).

Wednesday A.M. they continue on their journey and arrive about noon, and spend the rest of the day with Peter.

Wednesday night, which is the beginning of Thursday to the Jews (6 P.M. Wednesday to us) they spent the night with Peter at Joptha.

Thursday A.M. leave for Caesarea.

Thursday night, which is the beginning of Friday to the Jews they spent the night on the road.

Friday A.M. they arrive in Caesarea.


[b][color=0000FF]CORNELIUS COUNTS THIS ENTIRE TIME AS FOUR(4)DAYS. However, with our western minds, with our own concept of time, we see this as only being 3 1/2 days or maybe a little less, depending upon which hour they actually arrived at Caesarea. In any event, the time to the Hebrew was considered 4 days.[/color][/b]

Sincerely,

Walter

 2008/3/28 23:10
PCB
Member



Joined: 2006/10/11
Posts: 13


 Re:

A good treatment of the subject can be found here, although it concludes that the crucifixion was most likely the Thursday, rather than the Wednesday, as I think most likely.
[url=http://www.blueletterbible.org/faq/crux.html]blb[/url]

Peter

 2008/3/29 16:11Profile
bereangirl
Member



Joined: 2006/8/24
Posts: 59
Toronto, Canada

 Re:

Hi everybody,

I just want to add this to the thread. About a year ago I dug through this issue and concluded it was a Thursday as the Day of Preparation was when Jesus was crucified based on the information I found. The high holy sabbath was the Passover Shabbat on Thursday evening.

I found this website explained things rather well and also brought out that the 2nd day of the Feast of Unleavened bread is the Feast of Firstfruits and that was when Jesus rose from the dead. I was amazed at God's precision when I saw this for the first time. They have nice chart that shows the chronology of events.

http://www.hebrew4christians.com/Holidays/Spring_Holidays/First_Fruits/first_fruits.html

Someone commented on the thread asking if anyone else is bothered by the difference between our tradition and fact. I say a hearty yes to that. This last Good Friday for me brought me to tears (besides the right reason it should bring me to tears). It hit me that here we are celebrating the most important event to occur in human history and we give it the name of a pagan goddess and get the day wrong.

Personally, I'm not sure what to do about this as it appears that all churches go with Good Friday and don't seem to blink that it doesn't make 3 nights and 3 days. It bothers me that we are celebrating Jesus' crucifixion and resurection with a mixture of truth and un-truth. I do take comfort in the fact that we can celebrate the Cross every day, not just at a certain date. Unless we have another reformation, it looks like we're stuck with this arrangement until Jesus returns.

So there I am.

Anybody in the mood for a reformation? :-)

Blessings,

Bereangirl

 2008/3/30 11:58Profile
BlazedbyGod
Member



Joined: 2007/8/22
Posts: 462


 Re:

How about if you celebrated the resurrection on March 23, you were too early......

Christ died, was buried, and resurrected according to the Jewish calendar and time of Passover, which is the week beginning April/Nissan 14 ( Nissan 14, is our April 19 this year I believe) thus I would guess/suppose the true resurrection day of Christ would be " three days and three nights" AFTER Nissan 14. ( Which is about Nisan 17/18, which is our April 22/23 this year.

Simply, March 23, 2008 on our calendar really has nothing to do with the Passover or resurrection of our Lovely Lord Jesus Christ-He is our Passover Lamb, shouldn't we think he would have literally died and resurrected during the real, literal Passover week according to the Jewish calender and not ours.

This year, Passover is April 19-April 26

Just something to think about...

 2008/4/3 8:50Profile





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