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roadsign
Member



Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3777


 Re: let us not forget about forgiveness

This present thread as well as some earlier SI threads alerted me to an important aspect related to this topic. I would go so far to say that Mr. Nicole failed to consider it - and his neglect potentially weakens his entire presentation. That is the topic of forgiveness.

I cannot but assume that polemic theology typically accompanies the experience of hurt and wounding, anger and offence, and (as history has proven) even swords and lynchings. Under such conditions it is extremely difficult to “learn from one’s “opponents”. Worse yet, offences tend to stick hard - forever – and be transmitted down the generations. (and here Katie has a point) Walls of divisions become set in cement, where no one really expects it to change or even want it to change.

Grudges are all too easily cherished. It feels safer to cling to a grudge than to allow ourselves to become vulnerable to those who are not “on our side”.

No wonder Jesus underscores the aspect of forgiveness in the Lord’s Prayer by repeating it twice afterwards:

“If you forgive those who sin against you,
your heavenly Father will forgive you.

[and then he repeats this in the negative]

But if you refuse to forgive others,
your Father will not forgive your sins.” Matt. 6:14,15

Forgiveness is not about absolving anyone’s wrongs; it is about taking the offender off of our hook and leaving him on God’s hook. It frees us to love and learn from him (or her or them).

Of course we can only control our own response, not theirs. We can forgive them by the power of God’s Spirit. (see thread on Corrie Ten Boon)

But what about the “opponent” who may be holding an unforgiving spirit towards us – either because of some ill manner on our part, or because of our affiliation with “the opposition”, or by our triggering of painful past experience? Surely any of these strongholds are serious blockages for him/her. I believe that unless we take this problem to the Lord in prayer, we may do nothing more than rub salt into the wound - in our attempt to “show him the light”. It only makes things worse. This is why it is so important to learn from him first - and see a perspective though his eyes.

As I meditate on these thoughts, the Spirit seems to be saying, “You do what I am calling you to do: learn anyway from him and leave me to deal with him. You love him with the same forgiveness that you received from me."

There is one thing our offender can never, never rob from us - and that is our freedom to learn from him regardless of his flaws. (ex: in ways described in my previous post).

The only one who can rob us is ourselves - by refusing to forgive.

Diane


_________________
Diane

 2008/3/16 14:06Profile









 Re:

Diane, THAT is the most beautiful and profound thing said here from the very beginning.

This thread is really a catch 22. As we each express our thoughts, to agree and agree to disagree, also stating why we do so, backing with scripture, there are those who still want to make railing accusations of hurt towards those who disagree....as was demonstrated.

Quote:
Walls of divisions become set in cement, where no one really expects it to change or even want it to change.



From the very beginning of my coming on here Mike has set up his walls against my posts, with the same spirit today as was months ago.

That was why I said this article could be used in a good way and bad way.

We were discussing the article here, not people.



I saw all three come to rebuke Forrest for questioning the authority of Paul, yet did I fail to see such defence when the Deity of Christ was in question? Maybe I missed that!

No, I saw rebuke, and those called troublemakers who did, being accused of causing contention...thereby locking threads. I'm sorry Mike, but you've locked many threads I have never even posted on.

Is this what these discussions are resulting in, Compromise?

Do we sometimes keep our mouth shut for fear of being accused of taking sides with people rather then siding with truth?

Yet we pray for revival....and wonder why God isn't listening!

I forgive you Mike! Maybe we all got a little stung on this thread.


Katy

 2008/3/16 15:00
ChrisJD
Member



Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA

 Re:

Hi everyone,


Katy-Did,


"...there are those who still want to make railing accusations of hurt towards those who disagree....as was demonstrated."



Katy, I'm not sure I understand you here? You say this and then accuse brother Mike of, 'setting up walls' against your posts?


When I brought to your attention here earlier the statement you made regarding calvanists in another thread, you said you would have to see the context that it was made in, right? Did you check it out Katy?


Also,



"Maybe we all got a little stung on this thread."



Is that how we look at these things? As little stings?




Thank you for considering this,


Chris





_________________
Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2008/3/16 15:36Profile









 Re:

Mike, something I said in an earlier post (page 3, I think) is relevant here:

Quote:
Among other things, the Lord reminded me of the two good kings, Jehoshaphat and Hezekiah. Both really nice guys (if a king can be called that!), and true men of God. [b]Yet they compromised and made leagues with their enemies, and with the enemies of their nation, and, more disastrously, with enemies of God[/b]

And look what the Lord said to a [i]bad[/i] king because he compromised with the enemy!:

1Kings 20:42 [color=000000] And he said unto him, Thus saith the LORD, Because thou hast let go out of thy hand a man whom I appointed to utter destruction, therefore thy life shall go for his life, and thy people for his people.[/color]

Of course there's no question of killing anyone, but this is the spiritual principle at stake here.

Her manner of expressing it may leave something to be desired, but in this aspect Katy is right.

And again the Word speaks of those who protect the evil and condemn the righteous

Ezekiel 13:22
...ye have made the heart of the righteous sad, whom I have not made sad; and strengthened the hands of the wicked, that he should not return from his wicked way, by promising him life...

Please Mike, this is not the first time I've seen you do this.

Moderator or no (and you could have both of us banned for this) I plead with you as a brother in Christ, please listen before its too late!

in Him

Jeannette

 2008/3/16 16:08









 Re:

ChrisJD,
I understand many things said here on SI have hurt you deeply. We discussed this on another thread you started about Judging.

You were totally offended by those going back into the history of the Reformers, stating they had no right to state such things.

I do believe, if not mistaken, even Mike was agreeing with the right to post those comments, regardless if it was hurtful to anyone.

In relation to my comment Chris, under the theology of Calvinism, God's sovereignty chooses those He saves, and He has sovereignty chosen those He has chosen to Hell. The question came up about witnessing on many a Calvinist blog if this were so.

Again, I asked a question ...not a statement.....

If those who are Calvinists who boycott revivals wear t-shirts saying NO CHOICE, then I believe THAT is more HURTFUL by 1000% then my question.

I would hope and pray you too find that more hurtful, as we put hurt in perspective.

I did apologize to you that that hurt you.

Now, Jayyou may come on line here as say how hurt he was that I said Jesus was not Michael the Arc angel. I would tell him the same thing I am saying to you.....I'm sorry that comment HURT you, however, reducing Jesus Christ to an Angel is far more hurtful.

Sharon may come on line here and say how hurt she was that many defended the Deity of Christ, rebuked her, but reducing Jesus to anything but GOD is more hurtful.

Forrest I'm sure was Greatly HURT when she questioned the authority of Paul... I know she was hurt, but what she was teaching was far more hurtful then the rebukes she received.

(And I applaud the Moderators for his defence)

The list can go on and on. Yet, all I can say Chris is I'm sorry you are hurt by many comments here, not just mine.


Katy

 2008/3/16 16:23
PaulWest
Member



Joined: 2006/6/28
Posts: 3405
Dallas, Texas

 Re:

Quote:
Moderator or no (and you could have both of us banned for this) I plead with you as a brother in Christ, please listen before its too late!



Before [i]what's[/i] too late? What in the world is going on here, what exactly is happening on this thread? Everyone needs to just step back, before words are said that will be painfully regretted. This must stop immediately, the rebellion, the candid usurpation and systematic contravening of God-ordained leadership and counsel in these forums. The insatiable quest to be [i]right[/i] at all costs. I would ask all the sisters here to just step back and reason with God. Please.

Brother Paul


_________________
Paul Frederick West

 2008/3/16 16:27Profile









 Re:

Quote:

PaulWest wrote:
Before [i]what's[/i] too late?



Don't ask me, ask the Lord

Jeannette

 2008/3/16 16:36
ChrisJD
Member



Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA

 Re:

Hi Katy-did,


"ChrisJD,
I understand many things said here on SI have heart you deeply. We discussed this on another thread you started about Judging.

You were totally offended by those going back into the history of the Reformers, stating they had no right to state such things."



But Katy, how do you know the things you are saying here are true or not? Is this what you think?




About this,


"Again, I asked a question ...not a statement....."




Katy, you said


"What they are really doing is slandering God’s Character."


And after this, a brother said to you that your words wound the body of Christ.




This is the thread
[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=20678&forum=36&start=20&viewmode=flat&order=1]here[/url]




Katy, maybe there is a reason that [b]you[/b] should concerned about these things.




May God bless you Katy,


Chris


_________________
Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2008/3/16 16:41Profile
PaulWest
Member



Joined: 2006/6/28
Posts: 3405
Dallas, Texas

 Re:

Quote:
Don't ask me, ask the Lord



Sister, don't play games with me. If you must know, I have asked the Lord, and the only thing that may be too late is some of us humbling ourselves before removals begin. Again, I would ask you all to reason with the Lord. This is not a game and this is not a forum where anything goes - scripture references or not.


_________________
Paul Frederick West

 2008/3/16 16:46Profile









 Re:

Chris....this is my LAST post to you.

I've said what I've said out of personal conviction of my conscience.

You've said what you've said out of yours.

This thread is not about Calvinism to begin with, or healing hurts.


End of discussion Chris!


Katy

 2008/3/16 16:56





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