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Mangan
Member



Joined: 2007/4/19
Posts: 161
Sweden (Northern Europe)

 Jesus and his teaching accentuate the end of all killing!!!!

Hi I got a few questions that I wish to have answered:-?.

i. Is Jesus for war against nations?
ii. Is Jesus for defendning your country and in that you have to kill people?
iii. Is Jesus for retaliation against earthly enemies?

a. I find no indications in NT that Jesus is for either the national state or anything like that. His new and regenerated people seems to be constituted of all races and of all ethnical groups i.e. one people of many in Him.

b. I found no indications in NT that a born-again and a follower of Christ should "enlist in the army".

c. If all the people of the world is a potential christian - a brother and a sister; then we can under no circumstances as Christians kill (even if Mr Bush or other leaders says so because it has no new testamental passage to support such).

Well what is your opinion??? Personally and according to my inner voice I believe that God in light of Christ is against all killing period; - even in terms of capital punnishment because Satan is the author of death not God.

Therefore for me Jesus is the first pacifist and we as his followers are obligated to follow him in that manner as well.
Sincerely Magnus
:-D


_________________
Magnus Nordlund

 2008/3/1 10:59Profile
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7471
Mississippi

 Re: Jesus and his teaching accentuate the end of all killing!!!!

Magnus,

Have you checked out the thread on "Let's Talk about Peace" on the "General Topics" forum? This thread deals with this issue. There is enough reading there to keep you busy for a long time.

Blessings,
ginnyrose


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Sandra Miller

 2008/3/1 11:14Profile
Mangan
Member



Joined: 2007/4/19
Posts: 161
Sweden (Northern Europe)

 Re:

Thanks ginnyrose! I did not know that. I will check it out.

Sincerely Magnus :-)


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Magnus Nordlund

 2008/3/1 11:22Profile
Tears_of_joy
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Joined: 2003/10/30
Posts: 1554


 Re: Jesus and his teaching accentuate the end of all killing!!!!

Here is the link:

[url=http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=15338&forum=35&281]We Need to Talk About Peace [/url]

 2008/3/1 11:49Profile
Mangan
Member



Joined: 2007/4/19
Posts: 161
Sweden (Northern Europe)

 Re:

Thanks for the link!

This is an urgent question for me - a burden.

Noone benefits from war.

Sincerely Magnus :-D


_________________
Magnus Nordlund

 2008/3/1 11:56Profile
rowdy2
Member



Joined: 2007/1/21
Posts: 528
Southern USA

 Re: Jesus and his teaching accentuate the end of all killing!!!!

Reply to Mangan
Here is a link hot off the press.
I carried weapons in defense of the innocent for nearly twenty five years. I would not think twice today in killing to protect the innocent. Your biases are showing when you take positions in defense of mass murders that declared war on the civilians of America.

Why is America hated in the world? Our government knows but is unwilling to offend other western governments by calling them welfare dependants who depended on us for protection for all the last century. Granted we received strategic benefit. Now that the threat of the Soviet Union has passed for the moment we are despised and belittled in our efforts to defend our selves and others by those that take a holier than tho attitude while their young people shirk their duty and scoff at our young men and women sacrifice. Europe has thrown out the basic laws that underpins civilization that say if you harm one of us then you have harmed us all. The strong will defend the weak and the helpless and our God judge between us.

Eddie


_________________
Eddie

 2008/3/2 12:03Profile
ccchhhrrriiisss
Member



Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4499


 Re:

Hi Magnus...

Quote:
Noone benefits from war.


No one?

The Jews who were rescued from concentration camps might argue that they benefited from the outcome of World War II. Former slaves might argue that they benefited from the outcome of the Civil War. Americans might argue that they benefited from the outcome of the Revolutionary War. South Koreans might argue that they benefited from the Korean War. Israelis might argue that they benefited from the Six Day War. Kuwaitis might argue that they benefited from the first War in Iraq.

Who benefited from a [i]lack of participation[/i] in war? The North Vietnamese communists who quickly conquered South Vietnam following the pull out of US troops. The Germans during both WW1 and WW2 before US participation. The Soviet Empire before the US voiced opposition to Soviet communist aggression. Al Quaeda enjoyed growth during the 1990s when little was done to stop the growth of their terrorist organization.

The question is not whether or not war can produce benefits. Obviously, the world that we live in -- including the preservation of freedoms -- has been shaped by war. The fact that we can enjoy freedom of the press and write these posts is possibly due to the victory of the West over forced communist aggression from the Cold War. There are believers in North Korea who are still killed for their faith. I can't help but wonder if the outcome would have been different if MacArthur had been allowed to win in Korea.

:-(

*EDIT:

Was Jesus ever in favor of war? Did the Lord [u]ever[/u] favor war? If we look through the Old Testament, did God ever instruct a nation to go to war?


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Christopher

 2008/3/2 13:12Profile
21stCPuritan
Member



Joined: 2008/3/2
Posts: 3


 Re: Does Jesus Hate All Killing?

First, if we are to answer the question if Jesus is against all killing, we must go to the scriptures.

All Governments are in Authroity according to Gods Will: Romans 13:1-7 and have the power to protect themselves THROUGH KILLING if needs be!
Romans 13:3For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. 4For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not BEAR THE SWORD FOR NOTHING. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. So I see no prohibition of any Christian joining the army, or killing enemies when ordered to by GOD-ordained authority. It is not a clear command so do not twist scripture by saying Christians can't and shouldn't join the Army, show me the scripture that says it.

I also remember several Scriptures from the Old Testament.
"Those who live by the sword shall die by the Sword," and "Whoever sheds man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed."

So God-ordained Governments as an agent of wrath have the right and duty to protect its citizens, through war if need be, and even from other citizens. I also remember Israel being ordered to kill all the inhabitants of the Land, leaving none alive! Men, Women, and Children! God Commanded it! They did not have a choice, and all men age 20 and up were in the Army regardless, that is the purpose of numbering the people - the numbers are men who could go to war!

Also Death was not from Satan, but a punishment from GOD for Sin Romans 6:23"For the Wages of SIN is Death,..." We all think that Everything evil comes from Satan, it doesn't, we are fallen, evil people unless acted upon by grace, even Christ called us evil "If you being evil know how to give good gifts..." So even death itself is ordained by God!

The Commandment is NOT "Thou shalt not kill", but "THOU SHALT NOT COMMIT MURDER." A big difference. Cities of refuge were set up in the Old Testament exactly for the purpose that you may accidently kill someone. Murder is an act in anger (anger in the heart also being murder), whereas A child may run out into the street and I can not stop the car in time not to hit and accidently kill them. I didn't plan on it, but it happened, it may or may not have been my fault.

Be careful not to twist the words of Christ, especially since THE WHOLE BIBLE is the WORD OF GOD.

In conclusion:
We as Christians are called to Love our neighbors and our enemies. I am called to love my Wife as Christ loved the Church - even laying down my life. This means that if someone is in my house doing harm to my wife, I must do anything and everything to protect her, even kill an intruder if I can do no else, even if it mean I die in the process. Governemnts are authorities given by God to protect its citizens. If the US in WWII would have just let the japanese invade and take over the country "because we don't believe in war" we would be a Japanese nation, or even a muslim country, or california would belong to mexico.

Murder is what God hates. Killing is sometimes necessary and unavoidable, does that mean Jesus hates ALL killing? I will not know until I see Him in glory!

for now let's just go with what He has said and commanded for us, and not attribute anything to Him that contradicts scripture, or is not written!

SIDEBAR: This post is not intended to demean anyone perosnally, but it is intended to edify through the truth by destroying Specualtion. So many today worship a God of their own making. "My God could never do that" and yet if you read scripture plainly and in context God can and will do anything He wants and wills to do. Even if it offends our humanism. Stop claiming the Bible to be the infallible Word of God, and Believe it is The Word of God! To God Be All The Glory!

 2008/3/2 14:28Profile
pastorfrin
Member



Joined: 2006/1/19
Posts: 1406


 Re:

If it is true that it is God's will for Christians to fight in wars. Then all Christians should sign up for the military immediately.

It Jesus Christ expected those saved by the washing of His blood to participate in war, He would have made it very clear for them to do so.

Instead, He made it very clear that they are not
to.
John 18:36
Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.


Who's kingdom do you belong to and who is your king?

If you wish to follow the Old Testament, then live under all of it.

Read history, what kingdom in this world has ever truly benifited from war?

Rev. 18:1-8
And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory. [2] And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird. [3] For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies. [4] And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues. [5] For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities. [6] Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill to her double. [7] How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow. [8] Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her.


And it will be utterly destroyed by the Lord.

 2008/3/2 14:50Profile
hmmhmm
Member



Joined: 2006/1/31
Posts: 4991
Sweden

 Re:

do we see Jesus carry a sword? does he ever kill anyone? does he ever fight?

if we follow him, if we are his disciples...shouldent we be like him?

Jesus said if his kingdom was of this world they would fight....

so if you fight for earthly things, it shows what kingdom you belong to.


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CHRISTIAN

 2008/3/2 15:07Profile





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