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wildbranch
Member



Joined: 2005/7/20
Posts: 138


 Re: tirade

LittleGift quote: [i]Sharon, your recent tirade reminds me of the saying, "Attack is the best means of defence"[/i]

Could you please explain and direct me to the 'tirade and attack'?

LittleGift quote: [i]you think to divert attention from the main focus of this thread.[/i]

LittleGift,

I began this thread. I did not wish to divert attention away from the initial posts. Others did, however. Have you addressed the subject of this thread?

Katy-did said that I 'have not defended myself' You insist I am defending myself....???

I do not justify myself. There is One who does, however. Rom. 3:24, [b]"being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus[/b]".

Sharon


PS I await an answer from my previous post

 2008/2/12 17:36Profile









 Re:

Quote:

wildbranch wrote:
LittleGift quote: [i] Especially when such views are basically cultic in nature, not Christian....[/i].

I quite emphatically stated Whom I believe Jesus Christ my Lord to be....

...[i]Let me repost for clarification..[/i].
[color=000000]Please let me know which one of the following verses deem me as 'cultic'. Also, please identify in Scripture where someone believing these things is interoggated and judged as cultic for believing them...

...LittleGift. Which of the above verses lend you to pass judgement and use terms such a 'cultic' and 'witchcraft', when referring to my beliefs? Also, where in the Scriptures does anyone insist on any other statement of belief? Please clearly outline your case against me, being very sure that when you take the case to the Most High God, He will confirm your judgement.[/color]...

Sharon,

You seem to have conveniently forgotten what I [i][u]actually[/u][/i] said about the evidence that someone belongs to a cult, or cult-like body.

Let me remind you (my emphasis, below):

Quote:
One can tell if they are "cultic" by a person's [b][u]unwillingness and/or inability to even consider in the light of Scripture, what others bring up that doesn't agree with the fixed obsession[/b][/u] of the cult member.

Through this forum, and other Internet dialogues, I have certainly been caused to look again at some doctrines I thought I understood as fully as possible, and had settled in my mind about. Probably others have found the same.

We may end up of the same basic opinion as before, even confirmed in it; but at least we have had [u][b]the courage and honesty to examine other possible interpretations and understandings.

Being unwilling or unable to do this, even when others are gracious in their disagreement[/b][/u] as Krispy has been here (he will probably tell you he isn't always! ;-)) [b][u]shows what spirit such a person is of[/u][/b]

Instead of answering what I actually identified as being cult characteristics, you gave a list of Scriptures that you challenged me to deny!

Sharon, you have [b][u]cleverly sidestepped what I actually [i]said[/i][/u][/b], and pretended that I was challenging Scripture. This is [b][u]another typical characteristic of a cult member[/u][/b] that I didn't think to mention, and further evidence of the truth that you do indeed belong to something that is cultic in nature.

The only other kind of people (as a group) who habitually sidestep and wriggle out of challenges and awkward questions like this (they, like you, are extremely good at it) are politicians!

Quote:
I quite emphatically stated Whom I believe Jesus Christ my Lord to be....

Anyone can make this claim, and sincerely believe it to be true. That doesn't mean it [i]is[/i] true. Is there any evidence?

Sharon, if you feel yourself judged you only have yourself to blame. The more strongly you state that you believe in the Lord Jesus (or Yeshua, if you insist); the more you defend your relationship with Him; the more you complain about being persecuted (or whatever) the more obvious [i]you[/i] make it that our fears for you are only too well-founded. (Yes, fears [i]FOR YOU[/i]).

No one is condemning, only seeking to show you the truth before it is too late! Right doctrine is less important than the condition of a person's heart (for example, I wasn't sure about the deity of Christ when first saved), but [i]some[/i] false doctrines can lead to disaster for the one who believes them. They are truly doctrines of demons, and the effect on many of those who embrace those teachings show that this is so. The manner and methods of JW's or Mormons seem very similar to yours, Sharon, that is the worrying thing.

Sharon, [i]for the sake of your own soul[/i], ask the Lord if your relationship with Him is as you suppose it to be. Never mind about us and what we think or say - ask HIM if the things that have been said here, that have offended you so much, have any basis. There is no need to fear if you will only go to Him, for He is merciful.

I've had to do that over many things, (though not over beliefs) since becoming a Christian, so am not asking anything I've not had to do myself.

If you are able to come to Him in sincerity and truth on this matter, He will not condemn nor cast you out, for He loves you far more than any of us possibly could. But if you keep on avoiding and wriggling out of this challenge you will never be free, and may in the end lose everything.

I have not judged you, you have judged yourself, in claiming to be justified.

As Katy said:
Quote:
Sharon, So sorry you find yourself dumbfounded, but by your own admitting, you do not believe in the Deity of Jesus Christ. You have been accused of this over and over, and have said NOTHING in your defense here. Why? Without this absolute TRUTH everything you say is suspect.

Can you say...Jesus Christ is LORD?

Do you believe you have been sanctified once and for all through the Body of Christ? Hebrews 10.

And If you are waiting until Judgment day to see if perchance you will be given eternal life...YOU DO NOT believe in the Finished work of Christ.

These accusations are by your own testimony....

Sadly that is abundantly true, and you are heaping up more and more evidence for this.

In His love (truly!)

Jeannette

 2008/2/12 18:26









 Re:

Quote:
Wildbranch said:
Have you addressed the subject of this thread?

Yes, second post on page 2, after Krispy's.

I don't think you commented on it...


Jeannette

 2008/2/12 18:33
Miccah
Member



Joined: 2007/9/13
Posts: 1752
Wisconsin

 Re:


wildbranch wrote:

Quote:
...Not a Trinitarian...



What is the definition of a Trinitarian?

What do you believe a Trinitarian to be?

Are Trinitarian's Christian's?

Considering the Trinitarian beliefs, what is your thoughts on the Trinitarian's beliefs?


Thanks


_________________
Christiaan

 2008/2/12 22:45Profile
Miccah
Member



Joined: 2007/9/13
Posts: 1752
Wisconsin

 Re:

HI Wildbranch,

Since I see that you are still on the boards, I was wondering if you could answer the below questions from my previous post.

Thank you.




wildbranch wrote:



Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

...Not a Trinitarian...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


What is the definition of a Trinitarian?

What do you believe a Trinitarian to be?

Are Trinitarian's Christian's?

Considering the Trinitarian beliefs, what is your thoughts on the Trinitarian's beliefs?


Thanks


_________________
Christiaan

 2008/2/13 13:25Profile
Nile
Member



Joined: 2007/3/28
Posts: 403
Raleigh, NC

 Re:

Hey everyone, I don't know enough to debate this subject fully but I would like to make some comments.

1. The scriptures [u]never explicitly say[/u] a person must believe Jesus is God to be saved. The best there is are inferences.
2. The scriputres [u]never explicitly say[/u] that Jesus is God. Verses like Titus 2:13 are hotly debated on the correct translation (look up "granville sharp's rule"). Verses like "My Lord, my God" are not declarations that Jesus is God - that view must be infered from the verses.
3. The apostles and disciples [u]never explicitly teach[/u] the doctrine that Jesus is God. You will find no discourse on the divinity of Jesus and the importance of believing in this doctrine. If it is not worhty of a single paragraph in the whole of Paul's writtings, why do people advocate it so strongly? (We see many paragraphs on who Jesus was, but simply no paragraphs on the fact that he was God.)
4. Everyone should realize that Sharon has studied these topics for some years now. Simply quoting John 1:1 or Titus 2:13 isn't going to rock her boat. You'll have to formulate your arguments much more precisely than that, and be ready to defend every point you make.
5. I think those who said they cannot learn anything from Sharon should strongly reconsider that statement. If nothing else you can learn how to respectfully, courteously, and intelligently discuss a topic (not to say that no one else is doing these things).
6. This topic was not about the deity of Jesus but on the keeping of the Sabbath (and the deeper issure of following the Law).

Matt


_________________
Matthew Miskiewicz

 2008/2/14 9:19Profile
LoveHim
Member



Joined: 2007/6/14
Posts: 562
Indiana, US

 Re:

Quote:
2. The scriputres never explicitly say that Jesus is God. Verses like Titus 2:13 are hotly debated on the correct translation (look up "granville sharp's rule"). Verses like "My Lord, my God" are not declarations that Jesus is God - that view must be infered from the verses.

brother nile, i must disagree with you on this. isaiah 9:6, john 1:1, john 20:28, acts 20:28, hebrews 1:8 and these are just the verses that call Jesus-God. that is not even beginning to show how Jesus is called the very names of God of the Old testament; (ex. I AM, Alpha and Omega, Beginning and the End) to name just a few.

sorry, but i must disagree with you on that statement.
Quote:
3. The apostles and disciples never explicitly teach the doctrine that Jesus is God. You will find no discourse on the divinity of Jesus and the importance of believing in this doctrine. If it is not worhty of a single paragraph in the whole of Paul's writtings, why do people advocate it so strongly? (We see many paragraphs on who Jesus was, but simply no paragraphs on the fact that he was God.)

once again brother nile, i must disagree. just like with the above quotations, i have shown you that many times in the scripture, Jesus is shown to be divine. just like phillippians 2:6, Jesus is said to be equal with God. brother nile, who is equal with God? only God himself. no one else can even be close to being called equal with God.

sorry brother, but i guess i just don't understand why you made these 2 statements. :-(

phil

 2008/2/14 12:46Profile









 Re:

Just asked a friend this question - thought it was time to get a new take on the whole thing.

[b]Q: [color=0033FF]what is your understanding of the meaning of the Sabbath?[/color]

A: [color=0033FF]the Sabbath isn't a day it is a person " come unto me all you who labour and I will give you rest"

In the old testament it was a day but we live in a new day 24/7[/color][/b]

WOW, YES!!!

Jeannette

 2008/2/14 13:22
Lowly
Member



Joined: 2007/10/13
Posts: 41


 Re:

Great Verses LoveHim

Colossians 1: 13-18 declares it powerfully!

"Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and has translated us ino the kingdom of His dear Son;
In whom we have redemption through His blood, even the forgiveness of sin;

And here it is...........
Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature;
For by Him were all things created, that are in heaven and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or domions, or principalities, or powers; ALL THINGS WERE CREATED BY HIM AND FOR HIM
AND HE IS BEFORE ALL THINGS, AND BY HIM ALL THINGS CONSIST.
And just so you know it is talking about Christ Jesus.......
VERSE 18.
AND HE IS THE HEAD OF THE BODY, THE CHURCH; WHO IS THE BEGINNING, THE FIRSTBORN FROM THE DEAD; THAT IN ALL THINGS HE MIGHT HAVE THE PREEMINENCE."

Wow!

Niles,
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the WORD WAS GOD
John 1: 3 says the same thing that Colossians 1 states, listen with your ears to hear
"All things were made by Him; and without Him was not any thing made that was made."

Do you see it Niles? It is a glorious thing.

In His amazing love,
Lowly
__________________________________
Learn of Me for I am meek and lowly of heart............
:-)

 2008/2/14 13:38Profile









 Re:

Nile, please, could we close this subject if it offends so many?

Re-read your last two threads if you must hear it all again, please. For the Love of Christ.

Here is the second of the two.

http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=20396&forum=36#159777

Just to answer your first statement above only -

[i]Joh 8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I Am, ye shall die in your sins.[/i]



John Wesley on Joh 8:24 - " If ye believe not that I AM - Here (as in Joh_8:58) our Lord claims the Divine name, I AM, Exo_3:14."

Vincent's Word Studies ~ "I am (εγω ειμι) the words are rather the solemn expression of His absolute divine being, as in Joh_8:58 : “If ye believe not that I am.”
See Deu_32:39; Isa_43:10; and compare Joh_8:28, Joh_8:58 of this chapter, and Joh_13:19."

A.T. Roberson ~ "The phrase egō eimi occurs three times here (Joh_8:24, Joh_8:28, Joh_8:58) and also in Joh_13:19"

_________________________________________

We love you and are praying for your prayer requests.

 2008/2/14 16:04





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