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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : We need to cover head covering

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theopenlife
Member



Joined: 2007/1/30
Posts: 926


 Re:

Hello again. I've been out for a day or two.

Here's a question (I am still undecided on this issue)...

Suppose that a woman's hair is itself the "covering". If males ought not pray "covered" (hair now being the covering), then would it not be implied that men with hair (a covering) should not pray or prophesy? If the woman's covering is hair, and men should not prophesy with a covering, then men ought not prophecy with hair?!

Of course I don't believe that.

This reasoning makes it plain, at least to me, that there is [i]another[/i] covering, intended to cover the woman's first, natural covering of hair.

Thoughts?

Murccolr, thanks for the post about Nee's background. I was dismayed at the quote from his book. I wonder if it was from earlier in his life?

 2008/2/19 1:59Profile
murrcolr
Member



Joined: 2007/4/25
Posts: 1839
Scotland, UK

 Re:

Quote:

theopenlife wrote:
Hello again. I've been out for a day or two.

Here's a question (I am still undecided on this issue)...

Suppose that a woman's hair is itself the "covering". If males ought not pray "covered" (hair now being the covering), then would it not be implied that men with hair (a covering) should not pray or prophesy? If the woman's covering is hair, and men should not prophesy with a covering, then men ought not prophecy with hair

Of course I don't believe that.

This reasoning makes it plain, at least to me, that there is [i]another[/i] covering, intended to cover the woman's first, natural covering of hair.

Thoughts?




1Cor 11:14 Doth not even nature itself teach you?

Male-pattern baldness

Even men who never "go bald" thin out over the years. Unlike those with reversible telogen shedding, those with common male-pattern hair loss don't notice much hair coming out; they just see that it's not there anymore. Adolescent boys notice some receding near the temples as their hairlines change from the straight-across boys' pattern to the more "M-shaped" pattern of adult men. This normal development does not mean they are losing hair


Quote:

Murccolr, thanks for the post about Nee's background. I was dismayed at the quote from his book. I wonder if it was from earlier in his life?



Where Nee got his understanding of the church from is John Nelson Darby other Brethren teachers.

Where Nee got his understanding of Bible exposition and many other truths, John Nelson Darby other Brethren teachers.

Have a look at Darby and Open and Closed Brethren. I mentioned the Closed Brethern on here earlier.


_________________
Colin Murray

 2008/2/19 9:06Profile
Rafiki
Member



Joined: 2004/8/20
Posts: 30
His Hands

 Re:

EDIT: sorry, what I said above is drifting off the subject of the thread. The discussion on head coverings has been very interesting.

Oh, yes thank you. I will tell My Daughter to please come and speak on this thread yes, she is coming very soon very soon, thank you Jesus.

I have been following this thread and it is very interesting yes it is. My Daughter she is in Cambodia right now on a mission, but she is coming oh please wait for My Daughter. Hallelujah, thank you Jesus I will continue to read so that I can inform her of all the wonderful people that are speaking on this subject. Oh I praise the Lord thank you Jesus.

 2008/2/19 10:32Profile
ccchhhrrriiisss
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Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4779


 Re:

Hi theopenlife...

Quote:
Suppose that a woman's hair is itself the "covering". If males ought not pray "covered" (hair now being the covering), then would it not be implied that men with hair (a covering) should not pray or prophesy? If the woman's covering is hair, and men should not prophesy with a covering, then men ought not prophecy with hair?!


Actually, I think that the idea of a covering is not [i]hair[/i] alone -- but [u]long[/u] hair. Nature teaches us that [i]long hair[/i] is natural on women but [i]short hair[/i] (or even [i]baldneess[/i]) is natural on men.

With this is mind, one could postulate that long hair is a covering for women (I Corinthians 11:15; perhaps long enough to cover the head from neck to scalp), while this sort of covering is unnatural in men (I Corinthians 11:14). In other words, men should not look like women and women should not appear like men. Hair was quite a notifier in the days where both men and women wore loss fitting robes.

For those who embrace the notion of an additional covering (on top of the hair): [b]Are there any other Scripture passages, Scriptural anecdotes or even historical anecdotes upon which this practice is based?[/b] I know that I asked this earlier, but I couldn't find any answer provided within the thread. I have always felt that there could be a problem when a doctrinal practice or requirement is based upon a single passage of Scripture. There have been quite a few odd practices that are typically associated with a persuasion about a particular passage of Scripture (such as [i]Baptism for the Dead[/i] from I Corinthians 15:29; Pentecostal [i]Snake Handlers[/i] from Mark 16:18; Folk Healers/Curanderos from II Kings 20:7 and Isaiah 38:21).

Are there anything other passages (scriptural or historical anecdotes) that validate such a practice?

When do those who practice such additional-to-hair covering wear them? When do they take them off?

Thanks for the help!

:-)


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Christopher

 2008/2/19 11:08Profile
ginnyrose
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Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7534
Mississippi

 Re:

Chris wrote:

Quote:
Are there any other Scripture passages, Scriptural anecdotes or even historical anecdotes upon which this practice is based? I know that I asked this earlier,



I remember reading this and hoped someone else would answer your question, but since no one did I will try.

There is no other scripture that addresses this issue of a head covering. However, we have a total of 16 verses dealing with this issue in one place. You may want to consider this fact: how may verses do you find in one place that discusses baptism? of observing communion? or giving a lengthy explanation as to why it should be done. Another thought: how often does God have to tell us something before it becomes essential for Spiritual living?

Chris, I can say from personal experience, that if the Scripture would not teach us about this, I do not know of one woman who would wear a headcovering! It is not my idea of fun to stick out like a sore thumb. BUT since the scriptures teach it, we do well to be obedient, regardless how I feel about it.

And when do we wear it? This answer will vary. Andree Seu from "World Magazine" wrote recently how she started wearing one and that to worship services. Others wear it at all waking hours. But the scripture teaches that when "she prays or prophecies". Now when does this happen? Obviously, it would be a whole lot more handy to keep on at all times because we do pray a lot and think about God a lot. Then when we are with others prophecy flows naturally in our conversations.

I have been told the concept of females wearing a headcovering was a new one, that neither the Jewish women nor pagans exercised. I have also been told the Moslem's got this idea from the Christians. Modern day Orthodox Jewish ladies also wear it. This past summer we were in Williamsburg, VA and while there I was very interested in seeing the female interpreters of history, who wore period costumes, wear a white cap.

(When we were at Willaimsburg, we saw an Orthodox Jewish couple and since they looked different, I talked with them and had a wonderful discussion. The lady told me the reason she wore a head covering was for modesty. I have never heard any Christian give this as a reason on why it is worn.)

Another place to look is at art that depicts Christian ladies, like early American first ladies. Will try to find more and come back with this info later.

I do not know if this has answered your questions...

Blessings,

ginnyrose


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Sandra Miller

 2008/2/19 22:59Profile
murrcolr
Member



Joined: 2007/4/25
Posts: 1839
Scotland, UK

 Re:

You have mentioned verses but did not quote any. We can't go by paintings or what a Jewish woman said. The subject at hand is head covering not baptism or communion and we have to go by the Word of God.

Quote:
There is no other scripture that addresses this issue of a head covering. However, we have a total of 16 verses dealing with this issue in one place. You may want to consider this fact: how may verses do you find in one place that discusses baptism? of observing communion? or giving a lengthy explanation as to why it should be done. Another thought: how often does God have to tell us something before it becomes essential for Spiritual living?



Where are these verses.

Quote:
I have been told the concept of females wearing a headcovering was a new one, that neither the Jewish women nor pagans exercised. I have also been told the Moslem's got this idea from the Christians. Modern day Orthodox Jewish ladies also wear it. This past summer we were in Williamsburg, VA and while there I was very interested in seeing the female interpreters of history, who wore period costumes, wear a white cap.



There was proof placed on here that's it was a Jewish Tradition.


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Colin Murray

 2008/2/20 5:12Profile
ginnyrose
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Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7534
Mississippi

 Re:

Quote:
Where are these verses.



1 Corinthians 11.

Quote:
There was proof placed on here that's it was a Jewish Tradition.



I may have to back off on this because after doing some research I am finding conflicting info. One writer says both Jewish males and females wore some kind of head covering. And I have read in other sources that this was not the case. In any case, it does not matter who wore what or did not wear during this frame of time, what Paul taught through the inspiration of the Holy Spirit wrote for the church is still effective for today. If it were not, God in his power would have made sure it would not have been included in the cannon of Scripture, I am sure.

If you take issue with this, may I also suggest you discard Paul's teaching on love (cha. 13)? baptizing of the dead (cha. 29?) or spiritual gifts (cha. 14)? lawsuits (cha. 6)? death (cha. 15)? or the remaining of Paul's witings...

ginnyrose


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Sandra Miller

 2008/2/20 14:19Profile
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7534
Mississippi

 Re:

Quote:
Are there anything other passages (scriptural or historical anecdotes) that validate such a practice?



Chris, it is with trepidation I work to answer this question because of the porcine mentality of a few humans. If I proceed will I dishonor the LORD? Or if I do not, will he frown on me for being weak?

Quote:
historical anecdotes



What do you mean by this? Anecdotes from life? I could give you those, but would that prove anything? Does it matter what life demonstrates in the final analysis? Depends, right?

I am reminded of the incident Richard Wurmbrand shared about Romania. They would take the candidates for baptism to the zoo, show them the large cats and instruct the youth that baptism could cause them to be thrown into the 'lions' and that they must be prepared for it. Are you willing to die? Baptism may bring this about...Obedience to the Word does not promise one comforts socially, nor make one popular either. One is obedient because he/she LOVES the LORD Jesus, no more, no less.

On the practical level, a veiled head will evoke questions from curious people which gives us a fantastic opportunity to witness.

The question has come up on this thread "How about all the godly women who do not cover their heads?" I am not God and he has not given me the right to judge them. They alone will have to face Him and what he will say. Not me.

I do not know if I answered any of your questions satisfactorily or not...

Blessings,
ginnyrose


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Sandra Miller

 2008/2/20 14:40Profile
psalm1
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Joined: 2007/1/30
Posts: 1230


 Re:

The glory of the man is the woman but the glory of the woman is her hair.(1 cor 11)

evidently women are glorious?

 2008/2/20 14:46Profile
murrcolr
Member



Joined: 2007/4/25
Posts: 1839
Scotland, UK

 Re:

Well said, you must be a comedian.

lol :-D


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Colin Murray

 2008/2/20 15:52Profile





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