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Joined: 2007/1/30
Posts: 1230


Annie, Hi. Are you making a point that the rapture is not a secret?

If you are I agree with you!


 2008/2/8 21:49Profile


Hia David, how are ya?

Those verses I posted show clearly that we won't be gathered until After the anti-Christ.

Clearly. :-D

 2008/2/8 21:52


David, if you don't believe it's a "secret" rapture - then do you believe the verses that say that "every eye will see Him" when He comes?

Love again.


 2008/2/8 21:54

Joined: 2007/1/30
Posts: 1230


Annie, I believe Jesus comes for his remnant( the rapture)

It is 7 years later when he comes with his saints to defeat the antichrist.

The scripturees you brought forth agree with this interpretation,

Annie Ye almost maketh me a posttrib!!!

But if you keep reading there are several verses of interest!
matt24; 36But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

37But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

38For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,

39And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

40Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

41Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

42Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

43But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.

44Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

Also notice vs 31And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Notice here they are gathered from heaven.

You do believe the rapture happens after antichrist is in power 7 years?


 2008/2/8 22:56Profile


Hi Brother. I was and taught pre-trib for almost 10 years, so I do understand what Scriptures that you see it through.

I've been post-trib for 23 years now, and until I got the internet in 2002, I thought I was pretty much alone in my belief.
I told you how I came to change my mind on another thread.

Some of my best friends are pre-trib, but I see more switching over in these last three years than in my 23.

I leave it to the Holy Spirit, because I like to post Scriptures, but not debate. Too old :knockedout: .

Love you and thank you for our communications. *thumbs-up*

 2008/2/9 0:19

Joined: 2006/2/2
Posts: 55
North Central Indiana


Praise Jesus!!

ccchhhriss wrote:

Let's consider the possibility of discussing such things without calling alternative views "a lie."

There is only one truth and any other point of view is by definition not true. that is a lie.

i have my own understanding of the discussion going on. i believe it is proven in scripture.
however it is possible that i am wrong (decieved) and therefore believing a lie.

It is not however, possible for both post and pre-trib to be true hence one view or the other is in fact a lie.

i agree that we need to lovingly and respectfully discuss these things. There is no need for me to tell someone that he believes a lie, nor for him to tell me that. However there is no doubt that some of us believe a lie.

Hisservant rich

Matthew 4:17

 2008/2/9 6:59Profile

Joined: 2007/1/30
Posts: 1230


Annie, Yes it is good to leave it to the Holy Spirit. Amen.

My focus is not on who is right or wrong.

My point of interest is the marriage supper.
I believe the Holy Spirit (possibly) is Emphasizing this more than a tribulation or rapture viewpoint.

Now the marriage supper (in my opinion) is an unprecedented Event.

Under the formatting of placing the rapture at the end of the tribulation....we have the white horses coming down to earth with Jesus and a small number of saints which meet the dead in Christ that are risen from the dead along with the those "raptured".(alive and remain)

These ascending ones do what?
They mount riderless horses and NEVER reach heaven????

We also must ignore the scriptures placing the bride, groom,white horses, marriage supper, and "wife" all in the same breath,in heaven.

Also we hit another impasse with the fact that the dead in Christ are in graves but in revelation we see "these are they which came out of the great tribulation and have washed their robes"

Now these dead have joined the other dead raised preceding the rapture.

When you add it up the rapture at the end of the tribulation period is truly an impossibility.

The rapture at the beginning of the tribulation and then the second coming at the end of the tribulation with all the saints(the five wise virgins,along with those that were risen from the dead preceding the rapture along with the martyrs that die during the tribulation period.
this great number have already completed the marriage supper of the lamb and are in heaven ready to mount white horses to do battle with the Antichrist.

Also another impasse to a post trib rapture is the great slaughter of Christians.
The bible places them in heaven AS THEY DIE.

Now under a post trib scenario they would be still in graves.(remember the dead in christ)

This is what I mean by reconciling scripture.


 2008/2/9 12:50Profile

 Re: End Time Revival / Harvest ?

Hi Chris :-)

I wonder if you could take a look again at something you said on p1? I'm going to put in bold the word which brought me to post, so everyone is clear I'm not offering (in this post) on the wider issues of the topic.

You said:

I don't mean to get involved in yet another End Times discussion which might result with a few individuals attempting to warn about the "heresy" (or possible "deception") that arises from contemplating the possibility that the Church might not be appointed to suffer the hour of God's [b]indiscriminate[/b] wrath upon the Earth. Can't we ever discuss an issue or variation in such beliefs without using such damaging rhetoric or implications?

Let's consider the possibility of discussing such things without calling alternative views "a lie."

In the light of your many other posts, and their careful choice of words, I'm not sure why you would use the word 'indiscriminate' about the way God's wrath will be delivered on the earth. I could ask you to find scripture for me, and I'm sure there will be some verses containing the word [i]all[/i], however, I put to you here, that God is well able to save one and destroy another.

Here are a few verses which make me believe God's wrath will be meted out only upon those who deserve it, and that there could no possible risk of His making any error of judgement in this matter. (I don't mean, of His judging someone a [i]sinner[/i] who is, in fact in Christ.)

[color=0000FF]Ephesians 5:6
Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.

Coloss 3:6
For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:

{disobedience = unbelief}

Romans 5:9
Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

1 Thess 5:9
For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

Revelation 16:19
And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and [u]great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give un[b]to her[/b] the cup of the wine of the fierceness of [b]his wrath[/b][/u].

Luke 17:34
I tell you, in that night there shall be two [i]men[/i] in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.[/color]

My other thought, along the same line, is that we all know how unremittingly exact our Father is, at putting His finger on the one thing in our lives He wants to change when He points it out to us. If He can do this for us, His children, in the hidden realms of our natural and spiritual awareness, then He can spot an one who has wholly rejected His counsel.

Now perhaps you used 'indiscriminate' unthinkingly. I just wanted to say I don't think it's an appropriate attitude to attribute to our God.

 2008/2/9 12:54

Joined: 2007/1/30
Posts: 1230


Rich, I think chris is pointing to the best interest of any debate.

We should all want the very best for our brethren.

For example if you respect your parents you wouldnt want to call them liars if they were wrong about ssomething?

Being wrong unintetionally is not being a liar.

Also wrong doctrine is not necessarily from hell.

We all have minds and think creative and right and wrong thoughts.

To ascribe everything that is not originating from the bible to hell is totally inacurrate.

This would mean we are all liars and from hell.


 2008/2/9 12:59Profile

Joined: 2005/2/21
Posts: 417
Edmonton Alberta Cda.

 Re: End Time Revival / Harvest ?

1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Please note: "and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed."

And also: "and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds"

There is an event that is CLEARLY going to proceed the "rapture". This event is called the "resurrection" of the just ( Luke 14:14).

My question is, as this resurrection proceeds the "rapture" when biblically does the resurrection happen?

Hint; John 6:39-40 Jn.6-44 Jn. 6:54 Rev. 20:4-5

Blessings Greg


 2008/2/9 14:24Profile

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