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Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3710
Ca.

 Re:

Quote:

"""SHOW ME THAT THOSE BLESSINGS/PROMISES(EARTHLY OR HEAVENLY) WHICHEVER WAY YOU THINK THEY ARE..""

"""ARE NO LONGER AVAILABLE FOR THOSE WHO SANCTIFY THE HOLY DAY OF THE LORD?"""

We are sanctified, not us sanctifying anything.

1 Corinthians 1:29-31 That no flesh should glory in his presence. But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.

We are sanctified in Christ, we are not Sanctifying a day to make it Holy.

It makes us Holy, It is Christ our Sabbath that make us Holy.

Mar 2:27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:

Christ was crucified for us, to take away sin for us, He is Holy, so makes us Holy that which He has done. It is not us keeping a Sabbath day that makes us Holy and this side of the Cross we have no charge to keep a Sabbath day, just like there is no more blood sacrifice for sin. The Law was fulfilled in Christ which we are no longer under. We are under the Law of Christ which is the Law of Love and the Blood that was shed by our only and last sacrifice. The Sabbath day keeping is the same, we are not to forsake the assembling of ourselves, but not to make any specific Sabbath Day be our assembling, it is for our comfort and loving one another and sharing the Gospel "Christ in you the Hope of Glory. I see Jesus in them because I see Jesus in me. This is our Sabbath.

This is what we are to keep Holy.

Hebrews 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

What makes us Holy and what sanctifies us?
The covenant of the blood where He was sanctified by crucifixion, an unholy thing, and He did to sanctify the Spirit of Grace that we know have. Let us not make the Sabbath an unholy thing by making it, an earthly day, the heavenly sanctification Christs'day which is every day in Him. That Grace, that faith is Jesus Christ in us and our Sabbath, our Sanctification, our Righteousness, our Wisdom and Our Redemption, with His Mind and His Spirit, our all, this has been made unto Us the Spirit of Christ, a real Person in us by the Father, making Jesus Christ our all in all, Seek Him and make Him our Sabbath and our everything in Love, seeking His works unto us and greater than His works that bring the Gospel to all the Father has given Jesus Christ. May we truly see that Jesus is our only Sabbath.

Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Hbr 10:25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some [is]; but exhorting [one another]: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

In Christ: Phillip



_________________
Phillip

 2008/1/30 3:05Profile
jayyou
Member



Joined: 2007/10/19
Posts: 136


 Re:

Dear brother ChrisJD,

thank you again for your reply,

Please allow me to comment on your last message.

Quote:""""Jayyou, you said

"The question is that the New Covenant is Also for Israel and the House of Judah."

You said:
It is for all peoples, and not only for them.

The promise was made to Abraham before Israel and his grandson Judah were born.""""


Dear brother ChrisJD, We are talking about the New Covenant, Remember?

Now you said that the promise to Abraham was before Israel and Judah were born.

However, the Old Covenant would only be given to Israel (and only to Israel) centuries ahead.

In Fact, this is what Paul talks about the Old Covenant.

Hebrews 8:7-8 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second. 8 Because finding fault with them.

The problem was not in the Covenant Itself but with the people that the Covenant had been given to. They were the ones that messed things up.

Either way, Dear brother One fact Remains:

Old Covenant: To Israel...

New Covenant: Israel and House of Judah.


I keep repeating the same thing but, These are your answers.

Sabbath - To Israel only.

Exodus 31:16 'Therefore the children of Israel shall keep the Sabbath, to observe the Sabbath throughout their generations as a perpetual covenant.

Now in this One you do not include yourself. You say: Not for me, for them only.....

But then.

Hebrews 8:8 He says: "Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah --


Very clear to me brother,
(ISRAEL AND HOUSE OF JUDAH).

but in this one you include yourself.

And I keep repeating the same question over and over again.

What is the logic of your doctrine?

I know that the promise of the New Covenat is for everybody and Paul has explained it in details how I, as a Gentile, include myself in the new covenant, and Unfortunately for you the Sabbath comes along as part of the package.

I am sorry dear brother but so far you have failed to show me in scriptures your logic and the question still remain.

You said in one of your messages to me.

Quote:"""It is good that we do not have to rely on your points for instruction"""

So please show me in scriptures your logic. So far you have showed me that the promises are for everybody but you have not shown how is it that you exclude yourself from one and include yourself in another.


Again the question for you.


How do you exclude yourself from the SAbbath which was only for israel and you include yourself in the promises and blessings of the New Covenant which happens to be only for Israel and House of Judah?



Now if you cannot answer this, Just ask me and I will show you how I include myself in the new covenant. Just Ask.....

-------------------------------------------------

You quote:"""""It is for all peoples, and not only for them.

The promise was made to Abraham before Israel and his grandson Judah were born. """"


The Bible says in various places that:

Genesis 26:4-5 "And I will make your descendants multiply as the stars of heaven; I will give to your descendants all these lands; and in your seed all the nations of the earth shall be blessed; 5 "because Abraham obeyed My voice and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws."


It says that all nations will be blessed through his Seed.

But note that on chapter 5 God tells us why was it so,

"because Abraham obeyed My voice and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws."

Hang on but there were no laws before the Sinai, but not only that but Abraham obeyed them.

A lot of people argue that Abraham did not keep the Sabbath.
Now if you use the logic that God Sanctified the SAbbath at creation and that then God used to communicate directly with them. Is it possible that Abraham preatty much kept the Sabbath? Specially after such a declaration from God.

"because Abraham obeyed My voice and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws."

In Fact, This is what God asked Abraham.

Genesis 17:1 When Abram was ninety-nine years old, the LORD appeared to Abram and said to him, "I am Almighty God; walk before Me and be blameless.

How could Abraham walk before God and be blameless if Abraham did not know how to do that?
How would Abraham walk before God and be blameless?

Now you can come to me and say, you cannot prove that He kept the sabbath, because the bible doesn't say clearly?

Well it does say it very clearly to me. But....

You cannot prove that He did not either for the Bible does not say it clearly.

One fact remains.

5 Abraham obeyed My voice and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws.

Is it possible that the Sabbath could be included in one of them?(My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws)

So, yes. All nations would be blessed through the seed of Abraham through Faith just like Paul said:

Galatians 3:8-9 And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, "In you all the nations shall be blessed." 9 So then those who are of faith are blessed with believing Abraham.


God bless you Brother......





 2008/2/3 8:54Profile
jayyou
Member



Joined: 2007/10/19
Posts: 136


 Re:

Dear sister Katy-did,

Thank you again for your reply.

Please allow me to comment on it.

Quote:""""Here is the whole chapter of Isaiah 58. I believe the whole blessing and promise belong to the heritage Of Jacob, specifically the 12 tribes of Israel."""

Ok Dear sis, I will go down this road with you...

Is it for Israel? But Paul said that there is not jew nor greek, etc...

But for you there is a Jew and there is a Greek here....

Ok. Let's say that you are right, they are for Israel.

My question to you is.

What about Isaiah 56.

Isaiah 56:1-3 Thus says the LORD: "Keep justice, and do righteousness, For My salvation is about to come, And My righteousness to be revealed. 2 Blessed is the man who does this, And the son of man who lays hold on it; Who keeps from defiling the Sabbath, And keeps his hand from doing any evil." 3 Do not let the son of the foreigner Who has joined himself to the LORD Speak.


Isaiah 56:6-7 " Also the sons of the foreigner Who join themselves to the LORD, to serve Him, And to love the name of the LORD, to be His servants -- Everyone who keeps from defiling the Sabbath, And holds fast My covenant -- 7 Even them I will bring to My holy mountain, And make them joyful in My house of prayer.


To whom are these blessings?

My bible gives the title for this chapter and it says """Salvation for the Gentiles"""


Are these blessings still valid for me? or can you prove in scripture they are no longer available for us the Gentiles?


 2008/2/3 9:27Profile
ChrisJD
Member



Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA

 Re:

Jayyou,


"which happens to be only for Israel and House of Judah?"


this word [b]only[/b],


Did God say this or you?


_________________
Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2008/2/3 9:28Profile









 Re:

Quote:

LittleGift wrote:
Hi Jay

Were you too busy arguing Scripture with Katy and Chris to comment on my last post?

What does to "sanctify the holy day of the Lord" actually mean?

It means [i]much, much more[/i] than merely keeping a particular day of the week.

We need to understand this to understand something of what the Sabbath really is, in its fulness, as it originally was in the Lord.

There is an eternal Sabbath and an earthly Sabbath, in the same way as there are earthly covenants (including those given to Jew and Gentile at different times) and there is the eternal Covenant which is unchanging.

Do you understand this?

The answer is probably "No"

Just testing! ;-)

Jeannette

 2008/2/3 10:02
jayyou
Member



Joined: 2007/10/19
Posts: 136


 Re:

Dear Sister Jeannette,

Thank you for your reply.

Please allow me to comment on it.

I was having a discussion with Katy-did about scriputre.

I gave her a couple of texts in Isaiah.

Then you wrote to a message, quoting the same question I had given to Sis Katy-did.

However, In your message. You failed to answer the question that you had quoted from another message and invited me to discuss semantics.

I wrote down a text in Isaiah 56 with especific promises and blessing for those who do exactly what the text says in regard of the Sabbath.

but instead, looking at it instead thinking that there might be a blessing for those people who do them, you write to me to discuss meaning of words to try to disprove what the bible says very clearly.

You said: ""We need to understand this to understand something of what the Sabbath really is, in its fulness, as it originally was in the Lord."""

Let's see.

The Sabbath Originally.

Genesis 2:2-3 And on the seventh day God ended His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. 3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.

is it an eternally or earthly Sabbath?

Exodus 16:26 "Six days you shall gather it, but on the seventh day, which is the Sabbath, there will be none."

is it an eternally or earthly Sabbath?


Exodus 16:30 So the people rested on the seventh day.

is it an eternally or earthly Sabbath?

Exodus 20:8-10 " Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD your God. In it you shall do no work:

is it an eternally or earthly Sabbath?

Nehemiah 9:14 You made known to them Your holy Sabbath,

is it an eternally or earthly Sabbath?

Isaiah 58:13 " If you turn away your foot from the Sabbath, From doing your pleasure on My holy day, And call the Sabbath a delight, The holy day of the LORD honorable.

is it an eternally or earthly Sabbath?

Nehemiah 13:22 And I commanded the Levites that they should cleanse themselves, and that they should go and guard the gates, to sanctify the Sabbath day. Remember me, O my God, concerning this also, and spare me according to the greatness of Your mercy!

is it an eternally or earthly Sabbath?

Hebrews 4:4 For He has spoken in a certain place of the seventh day in this way: "And God rested on the seventh day from all His works";

is it an eternally or earthly Sabbath?

I could give you a whole list of Sabbaths but it would talk too much space.
----------

Now I will quote the same question for you since you offered to answer.

Isaiah 56..Isaiah 56:1-7 Thus says the LORD: "Keep justice, and do righteousness, For My salvation is about to come, And My righteousness to be revealed. 2 Blessed is the man who does this, And the son of man who lays hold on it; Who keeps from defiling the Sabbath, And keeps his hand from doing any evil." 3 Do not let the son of the foreigner Who has joined himself to the LORD Speak, saying, "The LORD has utterly separated me from His people"; Nor let the eunuch say, "Here I am, a dry tree." 4 For thus says the LORD: "To the eunuchs who keep My Sabbaths, And choose what pleases Me, And hold fast My covenant, 5 Even to them I will give in My house And within My walls a place and a name Better than that of sons and daughters; I will give them an everlasting name That shall not be cut off. 6 " Also the sons of the foreigner Who join themselves to the LORD, to serve Him, And to love the name of the LORD, to be His servants -- Everyone who keeps from defiling the Sabbath, And holds fast My covenant -- 7 Even them I will bring to My holy mountain, And make them joyful in My house of prayer.

promises/blessings

Isaiah 56:5 Even to them I will give in My house And within My walls a place and a name Better than that of sons and daughters; I will give them an everlasting name That shall not be cut off.
Isaiah 56:7 Even them I will bring to My holy mountain, And make them joyful in My house of prayer.

The sabbath Isaiah is talking here are they eternally or earthly Sabbath?

Are these blessings valid for those who do exactly what the text says. or can you show in scriptures that they were nullified?

Very simple question.

God bless us.

 2008/2/3 10:07Profile
jayyou
Member



Joined: 2007/10/19
Posts: 136


 Re:

Dear brother ChrisJD,

You are totally missing the point, dear brother.

I do not know how to explain this more clearly to you.

I am not argueing with you the fact that the New Covenant is only for Israel and the House of Judah.

As I said before, I, as a Gentile, am included in the New Covenant. If I were saying that the New covenant is only for israel I would be excluding myself from partaking in it. You are missing the point.

What we are argueing here is the Fact that you have said the sabbath is only for Israel but the New covenant is for everybody.

We are discussing inconsistency.

The sabbath was given to Israel, but so was the New Covenant.

Either something(Sabbath) given to israel and something (New covenant) also given to israel and house of judah was given to everybody, or, they all belong to israel and israel only.

So please, what I am asking you is this,

show me in scripture your logic for excluding yourself from partaking the sabbath and including yourself in partaking the new covenant.

That is all.

God bless....

 2008/2/3 10:18Profile
wildbranch
Member



Joined: 2005/7/20
Posts: 138


 Re: sabbath

Jayyou, to add to your quote from Genesis 26: "Abraham obeyed My voice and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws", I would like to mention that the Sabbath is also recorded as being kept in the book of Exodus, prior to Mt Sinai.

The first mention of observing the "Sabbath" (from the Hebrew 'shabbat' , meaning "to rest/cease from labor"; the day of rest) is in Exodus regarding the gathering of manna:

"And he said unto them, This is that which the LORD hath said, Tomorrow is the rest of the holy Sabbath unto the LORD: bake that which ye will bake today, and seethe that ye will seethe; and that which remaineth over lay up for you to be kept until the morning." Exodus 16:23

~Notice that this is four chapters before the Law was given at Mt. Sinai~

They were to gather twice as much on the 6th day in anticipation of a day they were apparently already observing - this shows that the 7th day Sabbath had been instituted long before the giving of the Law at Sinai - in fact it was sanctified and ordained in Eden.

And, of course, the Sabbath was included in the Ten Commandments:
"Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy."
Exodus 20: 8

That the Sabbath had been ordained prior to Sinai is even accounted for in the very wording of Exodus 20:8: "Remember..."

The Seventh day Sabbath is a wonderful reminder, a shadow of a coming day of rest in the Messiah - The 1000 year reign of Yeshua from Jerusalem. It also stands as a reminder that 'in 6 days God created the world, and on the 7th day, He rested', thus reaffirming our belief to this evolution-embracing world that we believe in a Creator God, YHWH.

Rev 22:14: ... Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. ..

For the joy of the sabbath,
Sharon

P.S . I have not heard people arguing and standing so strongly against any of the other 9 commandments?

 2008/2/3 10:24Profile
ChrisJD
Member



Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA

 Re:

Jayyou,


You asked,


"Are these blessings valid for those who do exactly what the text says. or can you show in scriptures that they were nullified?"



"Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called a house of prayer for all people."


- Isaiah chapter 56 verse 7(KJV)

"... their burnt offerings and their sacrifices [i]shall be[/i] accepted upon mine altar"







" And Jesus went into the temple of God, and cast out all them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves, And said unto them, It is written, My house shall be called the house of prayer; but ye have made it a den of thieves."


- Matthew chapter 21 verses 12-13(KJV)


[i]...but ye have made it a den of thieves[/i]




"We have an altar, whereof they have no right to eat which serve the tabernacle. For the bodies of those beasts, whose blood is brought into the sanctuary by the high priest for sin, are burned without the camp. Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate. Let us go forth therefore unto him without the camp, bearing his reproach. For here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come."


- Hebrews chapter 13 verses 10-14(KJV)





And the Lord Jesus also said,


[b][color=660000]O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, [i]thou[/i] that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under [i]her[/i] wings, and ye would not! Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.[/color][/b]


- Matthew chapter 23 verses 37-38(KJV)



_________________
Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2008/2/3 10:31Profile
ChrisJD
Member



Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA

 Re:

Jayyou,

You said


"So please, what I am asking you is this,

show me in scripture your logic for excluding yourself from partaking the sabbath and including yourself in partaking the new covenant."




[b][color=000000] And Moses came and told the people all the words of the LORD, and all the judgments: and all the people answered with one voice, and said, All the words which the LORD hath said will we do. [/color][/b]


- Exodus chapter 24 verse 3(KJV)


[b][color=000000]And the LORD said unto Moses, Write thou these words: for after the tenor of these words I have made a covenant with thee and with Israel. And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments. [/color][/b]


- Exodus chapter 34 verse 27-28(KJV)



The Lord Jesus said


[b][color=660000]I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word. Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee. For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received [i]them[/i], and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.[/color][/b]


- John chapter 17 verse 6-8(KJV)


_________________
Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2008/2/3 10:43Profile





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