SermonIndex Audio Sermons
Image Map
Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Sabbath

Print Thread (PDF)

Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 | 21 | 22 | 23 | 24 Next Page )
PosterThread
BlazedbyGod
Member



Joined: 2007/8/22
Posts: 462


 Re:

Quote:

ChrisJD wrote:
Hi BlazedbyGod,

I'm alright thanks.


"Well because the name of this thread is "Sabbath"-that is the focus of this thread"


Right, but since you applied [i]this passage[/i] to the discussion of keeping the literal seventh day sabbath, I think this is a reasonable question to ask. If we're to understand this as the sabbath that was under the Law of Moses, should we also expect to observe new moons and feast days also?


Comparing scripture with scripture, maybe we should look at Revelation chapter 21 verses 23-25. What do you think?


Thanks,


Chris



Well that is the thing Chris, this is not the sabbath attached to the Law of Moses-but the 7 Day Sabbath which was institued at creation.

Pertaining to Revelation, you must pay close attention-it specifically makes reference to ONLY the City-the New Jerusalem which will have no need of the sun or moon-but this is not to be confused with the REST OF THE NEW EARTH, outside of the New Jerusalem

Rev 21:[b]23 And THE CITY had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in IT: for the glory of God did lighten IT, and the Lamb is the light thereof[/b]

Remember, John saw 3 New things: New heaven, new earth, AND New Jerusalem
Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. 2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down..

In Isaiah 66:23 it only spoke of the New Heaven and the New Earth-it made no reference to the New Jerusalem

 2008/1/26 16:43Profile
ChrisJD
Member



Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA

 Re:

Hi again BlazedbyGod,



"In Isaiah 66:23 it only spoke of the New Heaven and the New Earth-it made no reference to the New Jerusalem"


So who is keeping the Sabbath,

Those in the city?


Or those without(Rev 22:15)?



Chris


_________________
Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2008/1/26 16:55Profile
BlazedbyGod
Member



Joined: 2007/8/22
Posts: 462


 Re:

Quote:

ChrisJD wrote:
Hi again BlazedbyGod,



"In Isaiah 66:23 it only spoke of the New Heaven and the New Earth-it made no reference to the New Jerusalem"


So who is keeping the Sabbath,

Those in the city?


Or those without(Rev 22:15)?



Chris



The answer is: ALL FLESH
Isaiah 66: 23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall [b]ALL FLESH[/b] come to worship before me, saith the LORD. 24 And they shall go forth, ...

Revelation 22:15 makes reference to the later part of Isaiah 66:23: "....[b]and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.[/b]

These are they that ARE WITHOUT the city that Rev 22:15 makes reference to-

It isn't making reference to the New Earth itself, but rather it is speaking of the people in the lake of fire-which the righteous as Isaiah 66:23 says, will go and look upon their carcasess burning in the lake of fire-these are the dogs, liars, etc...

 2008/1/26 17:08Profile
InTheLight
Member



Joined: 2003/7/31
Posts: 2735
Phoenix, Arizona USA

 Re:

The following is excerpted from [url=http://www.exadventist.com/Home/Sabbath/tabid/53/Default.aspx]ExAdventist.com[/url]. There is a wealth of material on the Sabbath there.

CREATION & THE SABBATH: The Scriptures are very clear that the Sabbath of the fourth commandment was not given before Moses:

The Ten Commandments was not made with the fathers. Deuteronomy 5:2-3 says

"The Lord our God made a covenant with us at Horeb. The Lord did not make this covenant with our fathers, but with us, with all those of us alive here today."

Nehemiah 9:13-14 says: "You came down on Mount Sinai; you spoke to them from heaven. You gave them regulations and laws that are just and right, and decrees and commands that are good. You made known to them your holy sabbath and gave them commands, decrees and laws through your servant Moses." (NIV).

WAS THE SABBATH GIVEN FOR ALL MANKIND TO KEEP PERPETUALLY?

No, - Though Genesis 2:1-3 says that after the Lord had ended all His work He rested on the seventh day and blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, there is not a word about it being given to Adam and Eve as a commandment. You don't hear another word about the Sabbath in the entire book of Genesis. All fifty chapters are silent about the Sabbath.

You do not hear that the righteous Patriarchs, Abraham, Isaac, or Jacob kept the Sabbath. There is a conspicuous silence for 2,500 years after the Fall of man. It is not until after the redemption of God's people Israel out of Egypt when they are safely on the other side of the Red Sea that you read in the Book of Exodus that the Sabbath is mentioned again. (Exodus 16:22-30). Abraham was given commandments and ordinances, but the Sabbath is never mentioned as one of them.

Then the Sabbath is given to Israel and Israel alone. The Sabbath is a covenant sign between God and the nation of Israel. "And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, "But as for you, speak to the sons of Israel, saying, 'You shall surely observe My sabbaths; for this is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I am the Lord who sanctifies you. 'Therefore you are to observe the sabbath, for it is holy to you. Everyone who profanes it shall surely be put to death; for whoever does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from among his people. For six days work may be done, but on the seventh day there is a sabbath of complete rest, holy to the Lord; whoever does any work on the sabbath day shall surely be put to death. So the sons of Israel shall observe the sabbath, to celebrate the sabbath throughout their generations as a perpetual covenant. It is a sign between Me and the sons of Israel forever; for in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, but on the seventh day he ceased from labor, and was refreshed." Exodus 31:12-17

Notice that the reason why the Lord links the Sabbath to creation is that He is identifying Himself to Israel as the true and living Creator God. He is separate and apart from all of the other gods of Egypt and of the Gentile world. "Keep the Sabbath, worship Me, for I AM the true, living Creator of the Universe."

Notice also that this Sabbath "SIGN" (Exodus 31:13) is between God and "the sons of Israel" (Exodus 12:15,17) and not for all of mankind.

Nehemiah 9:13-14 indicates that the Sabbath was not given to be kept by anyone until it was given to Israel in the wilderness. "You came down on Mount Sinai; you spoke to them from heaven. You gave them regulations and laws that are just and right, and decrees and commands that are good. You made known to them your holy sabbath and gave them commands, decrees and laws through your servant Moses." (NIV).


_________________
Ron Halverson

 2008/1/26 17:09Profile
ChrisJD
Member



Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA

 Re:

Hi BlazedbyGod,


"The answer is: ALL FLESH"



Ahh, alright. Thank you for making that clear.


So let me see if I can understand what you believe:


You believe that [b]all flesh[/b], is going to observe the sabbath [b]and the new moons[/b], which Paul says are a shadow of things to come, even after it has come?


Is that right?



Do I understand you correctly?


Thanks,


Chris


_________________
Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2008/1/26 17:15Profile
BlazedbyGod
Member



Joined: 2007/8/22
Posts: 462


 Re:

[b]CREATION & THE SABBATH: The Scriptures are very clear that the Sabbath of the fourth commandment was not given before Moses:

The Ten Commandments was not made with the fathers. Deuteronomy 5:2-3 says

"The Lord our God made a covenant with us at Horeb. The Lord did not make this covenant with our fathers, but with us, with all those of us alive here today."[/b]

Well, anyone should know that Abraham was BEFORE the 10 Commandments-however, I will say this, as I have said before:

This is BEFORE the 10 Commandments:
Exodus 16:23And he said unto them, This is that which the LORD hath said, To morrow is the rest of the holy sabbath unto the LORD: bake that which ye will bake to day, and seethe that ye will seethe; and that which remaineth over lay up for you to be kept until the morning.

This is when the 10 Commandments was given:
Exodus 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

Now we all can count right, 16 comes before 20 right?

So they kept the sabbath BEFORE they were even ever given the 10 Commandments.

But let's reason, if the Children of Israel kept the Sabbath before the 10 Commandements, HOW DID THEY KNOW TO KEEP IT-WHERE DID MOSES GET THIS INFORMATIO FROM-maybe because some of the Old T Patriachs did keep the Sabbath.

Exodus 31:13 just states that God did not give the 10 Commandments to Abraham and so forth-but come on, that is a given-the man came before the 10, however look at this:

Gen 26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, [b]MY COMMANDMENTS, my statutes, and MY LAWS. [/b]

 2008/1/26 17:24Profile
ChrisJD
Member



Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA

 Re:

BlazedbyGod,

You asked,


"But let's reason, if the Children of Israel kept the Sabbath before the 10 Commandements, HOW DID THEY KNOW TO KEEP IT-WHERE DID MOSES GET THIS INFORMATIO FROM-maybe because some of the Old T Patriachs did keep the Sabbath."



Look at Exodus 16:23. I think it says it clearly there where they got it from.






_________________
Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2008/1/26 17:32Profile
BlazedbyGod
Member



Joined: 2007/8/22
Posts: 462


 Re:

Quote:

ChrisJD wrote:
Hi BlazedbyGod,


"The answer is: ALL FLESH"



Ahh, alright. Thank you for making that clear.


So let me see if I can understand what you believe:


You believe that [b]all flesh[/b], is going to observe the sabbath [b]and the new moons[/b], which Paul says are a shadow of things to come, even after it has come?


Is that right?



Do I understand you correctly?


Thanks,


Chris



Correct me if I am wrong or not Chris, but doesn't Paul make that statement AFTER Jesus has came to earth, died, resurrected, and ascended back to Heaven?

Col 2:17Which ARE a shadow of things TO COME; but the body is of Christ.

Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't "are"-present tense, and "to COME" future tense-

So Paul is saying THEY ARE (not WERE) of things TO COME ( not ALREADY have come)

Paul is making reference to FUTURE EVENTS, not passed events-I wonder, is Paul talking about they are a shadow of the things TO COME in the New Earth and the New Heaven, and the New Jerusalem-which all 3 are THINGS TO COME.

Or in other words, what verse says that JESUS himself, is what Paul is speaking about in Col 2:17, when he says this AFTER Jesus has came and went back to Heaven already.

 2008/1/26 17:33Profile
BlazedbyGod
Member



Joined: 2007/8/22
Posts: 462


 Re:

Quote:

ChrisJD wrote:
Hi BlazedbyGod,


"The answer is: ALL FLESH"



Ahh, alright. Thank you for making that clear.


So let me see if I can understand what you believe:


You believe that [b]all flesh[/b], is going to observe the sabbath [b]and the new moons[/b], which Paul says are a shadow of things to come, [b]even after it has come?[/b]


Chris



Also, I would like to say, you added this part to that scripture "....even after it has come"- The Holy Spirit through Paul, never said that.

 2008/1/26 17:36Profile
ChrisJD
Member



Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA

 Re:

BlazedbyGod,

"Paul is making reference to FUTURE EVENTS..."



Right, isn't that what we were looking at?

Again, you are telling us that those things which Paul called a shadow are going to be observed when the substance has come? Is that right?


_________________
Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2008/1/26 17:40Profile





©2002-2019 SermonIndex.net
Promoting Genuine Biblical Revival.
Privacy Policy