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ironwood
Member



Joined: 2007/12/26
Posts: 27


 Re:

Here is an article about Iranian Jews:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5367892.stm

 2008/1/9 0:21Profile









 Re:

Quote:

crsschk wrote:
Forgot one there brother;

[i]But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.[/i] Rom 2:29




Amen, born fully fleshly Jewish man and fully God of the Spirit. The second Adam. We beheld the Glory as the only Begotten of the Father; full of grace and truth.

 2008/1/9 6:17









 Re: THE HOLOCAUST AND POLITICAL CORRECTNESS


Hi brother ironwood,

I've been enjoying your posts, so please receive the following thought within the context of previous discussions of which you have not been a part. Your comment provides a springboard for slightly deeper examination of scripture, when you said

Quote:
when the veil is lifted off of the Jews.

I could ask if you intended this to sound as passive as it does, and you are welcome to answer that question if you reply, but I would draw attention to two verses * and ** which militate against it, in the sense that the vail has already been removed for those who received the word mixed with faith.

In Isaiah 59, the onus is on the individual to turn away from ungodliness. I'm going to quote the context using Young, who preseves the tenses of the verbs accurately.

17 For He put on righteousness as a breastplate,
And a helmet of salvation on His head;
He put on the garments of vengeance for clothing,
And was clad with zeal as a cloak.
18 According to [i]their[/i] deeds, accordingly He will repay,
Fury to His adversaries,
Recompense to His enemies;
The coastlands He will fully repay.
19 So shall they fear The name of the LORD from the west,
And His glory from the rising of the sun;
When the enemy comes in like a flood,
The Spirit of the LORD will lift up a standard against him.
20* " The Redeemer will come to Zion,
And to those who turn from transgression in Jacob," Says the LORD.
21 "As for Me," says the LORD, "this [i]is[/i] My covenant with them:
My Spirit who [i]is[/i] upon you, and My words which I have put in your mouth, shall not depart from your mouth, nor from the mouth of your descendants, nor from the mouth of your descendants' descendants," says the LORD, "from this time and forevermore."


In verse 20 (above), we find the same emphasis on the individual's turning, as Paul gives in 2 Corinthians 3:

15 but till to-day, when Moses is read, a vail upon their heart doth lie,
16** and whenever [u]they may turn unto the Lord[/u], the vail is taken away.
17 And the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord [i]is[/i], there [i]is[/i] liberty;


The reason I draw this out, is that Paul had taken Isaiah 59:20 to show that the Redeemer has already come to Israel, in Romans 11:26b

"The Deliverer will come out of Zion,
And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;"


Thinking about this in the context of another current discussion in the S + D forum, I realised it may look as if I'm saying people save themselves, but that is not what I mean. The force of Paul's reversing the verb in Romans 11 is to say that God knew He had to come and open the way for the return to Him. It is an acknowledgement of the limitations of the Law as well. Nevertheless, faced with Jesus Christ, those who [i]see[/i] who He is (John 1:11 - 14: 'we beheld His glory') and believe, are saved.

This was Paul's word to Jews first, and also to 'Greeks':

Romans 10:8 (KJV)
But what saith it?

The word is nigh thee, [i]even[/i] in thy mouth, and in thy heart:

that is, the word of faith, which we preach...


This was not a new thought to Jews, as Moses had said:

Deuteronomy 30:14
But the word [i]is[/i] very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.


I continue to resist the rumour that God is going to take away the vail from all Jews in a supernaturally sovereign act, before the Lord returns, as Israel's blindness has always been partial only, and as Jews received Him in person when He walked on earth, the way [u]is open still[/u].

No-one (Jew or Greek) is exempt from making a response to that revelation, and Paul makes it clear that the person receiving the revelation of Christ, may turn to Him. Immediately. AMEN!

This is GOOD NEWS.

Quote:
It will be a glorious day for the entire body of Christ

- when all Israel has been saved. :-) Amen.

 2008/1/9 7:38









 Re:

Good point Dorcas and I agree the veil split when Jesus said it is finished. I'll let Ironwood speak for hinself, but I just wonder was he referring to when the wild Olive shoot will be grafted back in, after the rapture of HIS church, when the fullness of the gentiles has come.
Rom 11:24-26

24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel,[b]until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in[/b].
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
KJV
Rom 11:17-23

17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;

18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.

19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.

20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:

21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in:[b]for God is able to graff them in again.[/b]
KJV


 2008/1/9 11:06









 Re: THE HOLOCAUST AND POLITICAL CORRECTNESS


Hi moe_mac

Quote:
I just wonder was he referring to when the wild Olive shoot will be grafted back in, after the rapture of HIS church, when the fullness of the gentiles has come.

I don't take Romans 11 to be about national salvation for Israel or mass salvation of Gentiles, but that each branch = [u]one believer[/u].

I don't believe there will be time to be saved [i]after[/i] the Lord returns.

Thus, I believe that those who are saved - that is, who have become part of the Church - the olive tree with [i]all[/i] its branches - both Jews and Gentiles - will have been grafted into Christ the Root, [i]before we are caught up to be with the Lord[/i].

The return of Jews to a land of Israel I can make sense of only after all those Jews who should be saved, have been saved. Will the Lord have returned before they get their land, or, is that one of the things which happens [i]because of His return[/i]? I don't know.

 2008/1/9 11:29
ironwood
Member



Joined: 2007/12/26
Posts: 27


 Re:

Dorcas wrote:
"I continue to resist the rumour that God is going to take away the vail from all Jews in a supernaturally sovereign act, before the Lord returns, as Israel's blindness has always been partial only, and as Jews received Him in person when He walked on earth, the way is open still."

I agree Dorcas. When I read your post I was reminded of Derek Prince in Jerusalem. The Lord sent a bright light to Jerusalem through Derek and Others.

The Veil has been removed from the Holy of Holies and a way has been made for any who call on the name of the Lord to enter in through this new and living way.

This way is open for all Jews. I do think there will be a great harvest in the Holy Land of Jews who in the end will find out that statehood cannot save them. They will see that they have been lied to by modern Israel's founding fathers. None of whom embraced the Torah nor the Author of the Torah. They will look on Him whom they have peirced and mourn for Him.

 2008/1/9 13:14Profile









 Re: THE HOLOCAUST AND POLITICAL CORRECTNESS



Hello ironwood. Amen to your thoughts above.

Perhaps you saw a recent thread in which I tried to bring our thinking in line with scripture, in that it was Romans who killed Jesus, and this accords with what He prophesied to His disciples about His death at the hands of [i]Gentiles[/i].

While accepting Jews were implicated by their actions and claim that 'His blood be on us and on our children', it was a Roman who pierced Him. All this is only one tiny aspect of God's goodness to [i]all[/i] of us in sending [u]the Saviour[/u]. There is more discussion in the thread, should you care to look it up.

[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=21059&forum=36&start=40&viewmode=flat&order=0]I'm not joking... who do you believe killed Jesus?[/url]

 2008/1/9 13:59









 Re:

Quote:
This all changed when Theodore Herzl's disciples came to the Holy Land.

Your referring to Zionism aren't you?

 2008/1/9 14:27









 Re:

Quote:

dorcas wrote:


Hello ironwood. Amen to your thoughts above.

Perhaps you saw a recent thread in which I tried to bring our thinking in line with scripture, in that it was Romans who killed Jesus, and this accords with what He prophesied to His disciples about His death at the hands of [i]Gentiles[/i].

While accepting Jews were implicated by their actions and claim that 'His blood be on us and on our children', it was a Roman who pierced Him. All this is only one tiny aspect of God's goodness to [i]all[/i] of us in sending [u]the Saviour[/u]. There is more discussion in the thread, should you care to look it up.

[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=21059&forum=36&start=40&viewmode=flat&order=0]I'm not joking... who do you believe killed Jesus?[/url]



Again I'm not Ironwood but feel compeled to answer:
To be honest, I was so convinced on who actually killed Jesus I did not even read the thread. Although the Roman Soldiers actually pierced him, the fact is our sins crucified HIM(ISA 53:5 as Prophesied) why HE was required to die. In our stead (Matt 20:28
28 just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many.")


I don't believe, unless I've forgotten, I ever clicked up the thread, but I'm sure this was covered by someone in the thread. Now, I gotta go read the thread.
Later
moe_mac

 2008/1/9 14:36
ironwood
Member



Joined: 2007/12/26
Posts: 27


 Re:

Ironwood qoute:
This all changed when Theodore Herzl's disciples came to the Holy Land.

Compliment asks:
"Your referring to Zionism aren't you?"

Yes. I purposely left out the "Z" word for a specific reason. I have no trouble using it but the people I was referring to as the likes of those mentioned in Rev 2:9 and 3:9 have purposely blurred thier terminology. All Jews in Isreal are told that they are Zionists from the moment they step foot in School. Jew=Zionist=Jew. This is the big lie. Herzl had no regard for the Torah. His dream was a Jewish state. Almost all of the Rabbis and Hebrew Sages of Europe warned against this. They said that it would cause much catastrophe to Jews both in the Holy Land and diaspora.

Again, the hate crime legislation is also aimed to preserve this lie. They want Joe Public to believe that if someone exposes Zionism of the Herzl ilk that they are in the same breath attacking Jews. Nothing could be further from the truth.

AIPAC uses the same tactics. If a politicain even questions AIPAC policy then they will sic the ADL on them and lable him or her a Jew Hater.

Politicains have lost their careers by just suggesting something contrary to AIPAC's wishes. AIPAC in know as "The Lobby" in Washington.

These organizations are no friend to the Jews. Hundreds of thousands of Jews see what is going on but their voices are ignored in the press.



 2008/1/9 15:19Profile





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