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TearsofJoy said:

Compliments, would you like to share more in detail what changed your mind?

I changed my mind because when I was a young Christian I was overly zealous and very foolish in my understanding of the word and how I thought God saw people. A Bible School isn't just a place where your taught theology but it's also a place to learn obedience in a structured setting.

For some of us, all we see is the external in that denominations are bad and meeting without walls is good. But I have come to realize that we must be wise as serpents. God can give a man a message, but we need to take on Pauls policy, "I become all things to all men that I might win some".

Those of you that have NO papers of ordination, go into your most popular Church in your town or city and tell them that you want an audience because God has given you a message. You won't be taken seriously, you'll be thrown out even if you attempt to get to the platform. However, if you've been ordained, then you will have a better chance.

Not all of us have been called to the Bible College, some of us have been called into a different kind of Bible College. For us, we don't need papers because it's not Churches that we'd be reaching, it's those that the Church seems to neglect or better yet, don't want.

 2008/1/3 12:16

Joined: 2007/3/14
Posts: 50

 Re: Recommend a Christian college/university.

I went to New Tribes Bible Institute (Bible w/ a church planting focus).I have taken courses also with other bible colleges.

If this helps I am also looking to finish my Bible degree online and I found Andersonville Theological Seminary to be Good and inexpensive.

What I can suggest is
I would go with a Bible college with some General Acreditation.If you feeled called to the ministry alot of people who serve in ministry full time must work also.Its not unspiritual to make this a part of your decision.Be a Good steward with the recources given to you.Time,Money,Service.
Masters in CA,Liberty ,Moody Bible Institute,Dallas Theological Seminary.

The challenge I had from my Bible teachers was to make your studies your Devotions.Pray thru it all....When Paul was in Ephuses in Acts 19 I think that is a good example of a need for places to help Folks in growing w/ Jesus.
Some Folks have no desire to go to Bible school becuase they are not called to GO to school.

If you have a walk with Christ I trust the spirit will direct you exactly where you need to GO.Be patient.
When you do GO enjoy the time you have being Immersed in the WORD.


 2008/1/3 12:51Profile


Ian, I am probably more guilty of I's than you are. Probably why I can recognize the I's so well. The truth we all are guilty of the I's, we's our's, my's, Everyone would, including myself, would do good when we disagreed with someone, if we were more transparent and truthful right then, if we spoke it right then after prayer, rather than watching and waiting for the right opportunity, even when it offended our brothers to speak to them what was on our heart, instead of waiting and watching, as the Pharisees did trying to catch Jesus doing something against the law of Moses, sneaking in a jab, so we can be justified in the sight on man. When we wait and comment about anothers post months later in revenge or jabbing them about that previous post, usually the other person is well aware of that. We are not stupid people. You know what I'm saying if you are honest. I saw another right post just before yours with the same characteristic responding to me about something I probably should have left alone earlier, but that's not me. Politics has never been my thing and some on here I detect think it my mission because I have been involved in local politics. Politics is actually trying to win the approval of men than God. Let me give you the message that was conveyed to me with those two posts. This is what I heard.

I have read your post moe_mac, you have not even been to college, why are you giving this person advice? You are really a low-life person and not educated enough to read your Bible or even have the love of God in your heart and life let alone hear HIM speak to you. I'm an educated person, a college grad, or a coach and you are nothing. You sound a little pentecostal to me talking about God speaking to you, if you had went to college you probably would have went to Oral Roberts University. Sorry I'm Southern Baptist and plan to stay that way. Sorry but that is what I hear.
If this mindset is what education does to a person, I don't want any. Paranoid, no that's when you imagine someone is trying to do you harm. Truth is, you can't do me no harm. You may say, that is not what I said, but we can say so much in tongues, if you will. I can handle that, because what matters most to me is what God thinks. Again, I am guilty myself of jabbing, but normally when I speak what is on my heart, I do right then, as I am now. If we become reconciled, I have gained a brother. May God have mercy on all of us and HE did when HE sent HIS son, Jesus to atone for our sins, because our hearts are evil above all else and who can know it. God does. I've been tranparent, how about you? one more thing be sure to count my I's.

 2008/1/3 13:09

Joined: 2006/3/22
Posts: 963
Wheaton, IL


Moe, two words, slow down.

I had no idea that you never went to college, I have no idea what denomination you attend -your'e reading way too much into what I said.

God has put a burden on my heart for missions, God is leading me to seek an education in cross-cultural/inter-cultural studies. Besides that, I don't know what his will is, where I will study, what I will do after I graduate. I've got enough light for my next couple of steps but that is all.

I was hoping to find someone on this forum who could recommend some good programs besides the ones that I was already considering. My comment about going off topic was not an attack on you, it was simply stating that the in spite of the fact that I tried to state the topic very narrowly, that it wasn't being answered as such.

Ian Smith

 2008/1/3 13:46Profile


My comment about going off topic was not an attack on you, it was simply stating that the in spite of the fact that I tried to state the topic very narrowly, that it wasn't being answered as such.

If that's your story stick to it. Not a problem. Have a great day brother.

After further review of the replay, I have a confession to make. No, I did not read the first post as you stated. Only just a few minutes ago have I read it. You are right I didn't and if you will notice, I wasn't repling to your comments but someone elses. I admit my mistake and I apoligize and probably would not have answered in that manner, if I had read the first post.

Actually I did not know who started the thread. I guess when I get to "We need to talk about peace" I need to go back 75 pages and check if Pastorfrin gave any instructions on what not to post, right. Just drop it and if I have offended I apoligize. No problem here.
moe_mac :-D

 2008/1/3 17:57

Joined: 2005/11/10
Posts: 530

 Re: Recommend a Christian college/university.

This thread is all the proof that I need that no one actually ever reads the first post.

Most of us read it, I suspect. But, of course, this is sermonindex, so what did you expect?

Moving on, about ten years ago when I looked into this, I had narrowed my choices to Gordon-Conwell, Wheaton, Master's, PCBS, and Columbia and settled on the last. All of those schools had elements I was concerned about, in the same sense that someone just mentioned a class at Liberty using Warren's text, but I had determined that Columbia was the best at that time. A lot can change in ten years. If the Lord does truly want you to go, he will reveal the location.

 2008/1/4 4:06Profile

Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4499


Hi Brother iansmith...

God has put a burden on my heart for missions, God is leading me to seek an education in cross-cultural/inter-cultural studies. Besides that, I don't know what his will is, where I will study, what I will do after I graduate. I've got enough light for my next couple of steps but that is all.

After reading through this thread, I noticed that you already answered a question that I was going to ask. I wanted to ask WHY you wanted to go to a “Christian” college. You answered the question before I could even ask (thanks!) by stating your burden for missions.

In this case, I would recommend a study of some of the great missionaries in Church history. Hudson Taylor, David Livingstone, etc… -- they all attended college as a means to equip them in the field. Ironically, the most meaningful training that they received was in practical/natural studies (health, nutrition, language, survival, etc…). Most “missionary students” that I know do not care much for such study. They are concerned primarily with a study of doctrinal issues and evangelical methods. In fact, most Christian schools seem focused upon such things. It has always been my belief that a person who feels an imminent “call” to missionary work should already be well versed in spiritual matters. Yes, they can always learn more – but they should be firmly established in both personal and evangelical faith.

On the other hand, there is a great need for believers destined for foreign lands to learn a “trade.” During the short-term mission trips that I have taken, the most viable men were those who could both preach the gospel in word and action. They could build houses and church buildings, dig wells, practice basic medicine, and teach hygiene, etc… while preaching the Gospel at the same time. In other words, these men weren’t afraid to get their hands dirty. They lived amongst the locals and practiced their faith in their daily lives. It is rare to see Western preachers who live abroad live as the locals in the field. Many of today’s missionaries (particularly from many of the evangelical denominations) live “fat” lives in the field. I say this because I have friends who work abroad – even in “dangerous” Muslim countries. Yet they preach a non-offensive message while living in elaborate houses rented or purchased by the denominations. It makes me wonder as to whether they are truly bringing a good return of the investment for which so many others are giving?

At one time, I truly wanted to attend a Christian university. I had narrowed my own selection to Southwestern Assemblies of God University (in Waxahachie, Texas) and Dave Wilkerson’s Mt. Zion School of Ministry (in Central Pennsylvania). After a visit to Southwestern, I knew that particular school was not for me. I never visited the Mt. Zion School, because I became convinced about a need to learn a skill or trade (so as to not become an unnecessary burden upon any potential congregation). I eventually attended a secular University and enrolled in an Engineering program. I have never regretted attending a “secular” university – even in the face of criticism from brethren who sometimes almost boast in their ignorance (as if it were a virtue). Ironically, some of the loudest critics of formal education are the ones who take such great steps at self-education (…from learning about technology, a occupational trade, health, typing or even in “spiritual areas” such as Biblical linguistics and doctrine).

I applaud your desire to understand the people for whom you want to be sent. Is this Scriptural? Of course! Paul was well versed in both the language and the customs of the people for whom he was sent. Regardless of the school (“Christian” or “secular”) for which you choose, I suggest that you learn the language, the culture, a trade and survival techniques of the destination in question. Which “survival techniques?” The place to which you are sent may have some special conditions (lack of protein, inadequate water/hygiene, severe weather and climate, laws, etc…) for which you will need to be aware.

I will remember this question in my prayers. May God provide the proper direction in which He desires for you and the people for whom you will be sent.



 2008/1/4 14:42Profile


Brother Ian,

First, you must allow the Holy Spirit to search you and examine your own motives to attend such a school. Is God for you an end or a means to an end? If you don't go through this--and it may take a long and painful, most unexpected process until truth bursts forth and sets you free--you will definitely fail. You must depend on Him for this, wholly... everything on the altar. You may not know how to do this. This is fine. Depend on Him. Christ alone is our Teacher.

I was in a similar place last spring and summer. The Lord made it clear then that I had nothing to do at a Bible school--at least not as a means to make connections, amass Biblical and practical knowledge, or grow in the Christian faith (all things I thought were good and noble). Discerning and hearing my Shepherd's voice is much more important than learning what other men have said or offered as steps in "fulfilling my God-given mission on earth," at least in that season of my life.

Thus, I can warn you NOT to allow a degree or course of study, or some other experience, be it good or bad, to become a god for you, which to supplant your reliance on Christ Jesus for everything? You cannot further your impact in the Kingdom of God by carnal strength or good intention. In fact, your impact, or growth, or well-being, or your 'whatever', should not at all be your main focus. This goes back to the first question about your motive to consider going to school--and to go there if you so choose. Humble yourself before the Lord and seek Him: He will grant you heavenly wisdom, as much as you are presently able to bear; He will give you what you need. This is key. Unless you humble yourself under His hand, He will have to humiliate you later--and, trust me, this is painful.

Also, in your initial post you excluded some answers as unnecesary or not helpful. I will not comment on these in particular, but I will say this. When God deals with us, when He speaks, and He speaks the truth, we must always hear and obey Him. If we tell Him, "I will do Your will, if You only say this or that, but surely not this one," then we are disqualified. To shut our mouth and quiet our wisdom so we can listen is the beginning of humility.

 2008/1/4 15:43


I've got enough light for my next couple of steps but that is all.

This is a good place to be. God has a way of keeping us humble in a time of testing. So that our heart may be revealed and we may be refined for His use:

[i]Deu 8:2 And thou shalt remember all the way which Jehovah thy God hath led thee these forty years in the wilderness, that he might humble thee, to prove thee, to know what was in thy heart, whether thou wouldest keep his commandments, or not.[/i]

Another thing to remember is that with God it is not the specific step (of going to Bible college or not) that is most important, but that [i]our heart stays loyal to Him[/i] all along the way; that even after He has given the long-sought answer, we don't ever think we're done seeking Him.

[EDIT: I realize you were asking about specific programs. I am not familiar with many. I gave you what I did have. Even the 'perfect school' won't do if God doesn't lead you there for a reason.]

 2008/1/4 15:56

Joined: 2006/3/22
Posts: 963
Wheaton, IL


Thank you for all of your responses. I've been leaning strongly towards Wheaton because I have family that lives in Wheaton and Downers Grove. But I don't want to pick a school simply because its convenient.

Earlier this year I sent an e-mail over to Bethlehem Bible College in Palestine -the one Brother Andrew writes about in his book Light Force. It turns out that I could go there, as long as I could speak Arabic... so for a while I was looking for a good Arabic school to attend for a year or two then attend BBC. Who knows, maybe this is still the way to go =)

Ian Smith

 2008/1/4 17:17Profile

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