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 Re: Eze 39: a question


Jeannette,

Quote:
Whether they know Him or not, whether they like it or not, they are His witnesses, as Isaiah said!

What Isaiah said is at least two thousand years out of date, except as it can be applied to those who believe in God. Jesus - the fulfillment of so much of Isaiah's prophecy - said His witnesses would take the message of His testimony to the Father's love, forward to the ends of the earth - and not only to Jews.

Please remember that when I write here, I am trying to open out the wider truth of scripture for those who are not familiar with it.

 2008/1/2 6:07
markm
Member



Joined: 2004/11/4
Posts: 46


 Re:

http://www.templeinstitute.org/slide_images/awakening_slide_8.jpg

Also pictured: The approximate location of the Garden of Gethsemane, where the red heifer was prepared... :)

 2008/1/2 6:52Profile









 Re:

Good Morning Linn,

I have read over these questions and do want to take time to respond to each question with careful thought and scripture.

I want to let you know it won't be at this moment, but wanted you to know I will respond, and that I haven't overlooked or ignored here.

I will comment briefly concerning your response to the rapture as many call it and bring something here to mind for you.

There are only two instances the term "THE MYSTERY OF GOD" is used (as there are many references to Mystery this and Mystery that, but this exact phrasing is only used two times, one in Colossians 2 and the other in Rev 10:7.

Colossians 2 explicitly refers to the "Church", the Body of Christ. Would it be interesting that Rev 10:7 would be referring to the church? Can that be disproved?

To further this we see that this Mystery is in accordance with Paul's words in 1 Corinthians 15, *at* the last trump. The seventh angel who is about to sound IS *AT* the last trump, just prior to Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The [u][b]kingdoms [/b][/u] of this world are become the [u][b]kingdoms [/b][/u] of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

Now, it is interesting it says KINGDOM**S**, and not Kingdom.

Well, this is the announcement of the return of the Lord Jesus Christ second coming....as spoken in Matthew 24 and Acts 1:6&7 that it is a time only the Father knows about.

It is also stated when the Lord returns to reign and rule....WE, His Body, the Church will reign and rule with Him.

I guess because of these scriptures I lean more towards mid-trib rapture. The first 3 1/2 years are the judgments, of which it is stated not to touch "the wine and the oil", possibly those who are Christ’s still on earth. Also those affected with boils will not affect those who are again HIS.

When the Kingdoms of this world become the Kingdoms of Christ, that is the overthrow, or the announcement of the overthrow of Gentile world power, and if you really concentrate on the scriptures after, especially Chapter 12, the Woman (Israel) with the 12 stars etc....this is now concerning Israel, and the fulfillment of the promises and prophecies concerning Israel.

This is the New Covenant promised to Israel, and the fulfillment of the Davidic Covenant of Christ taking the throne of David, and the fulfillment of the Palestinian Covenant ( all these are unconditional Covenants) fulfilling the promise of the land. This is NOT to the church, or the Gospel according to the Mystery that belongs to the Church.

Well, I need to go for today, and will get back with you later.

Love in Christ
Katy-Did

 2008/1/2 8:49









 Re:

***EDIT, try again in response to same original post***

Quote:

dorcas wrote:

Jeannette,

Quote:
Whether they know Him or not, whether they like it or not, they are His witnesses, as Isaiah said!

What Isaiah said is at least two thousand years out of date, except as it can be applied to those who believe in God.

The appplication always was, and continues to be much wider than that. Why do you limit the Word of God in this way?

Quote:
Jesus - the fulfillment of so much of Isaiah's prophecy - said His witnesses would take the message of His testimony to the Father's love, forward to the ends of the earth - and not only to Jews.

Yes, of course. Do you imagine this fact indicates that much of Isaiah is now "out of date"?

To use one truth to attack another, as you are doing, is wrong.

Quote:
Please remember that when I write here, I am trying to open out the wider truth of scripture for those who are not familiar with it.

Maybe this is what you are trying to do, but the effect is the opposite - a dangerous narrowing down of truth.

in Him

Jeannette

 2008/1/2 12:46









 Re:

Quote:

dorcas wrote:

Hi Jeannette,

While I'm replying to your post, here is a link to the design of Solomon's temple, which was, apparently, patterned upon the Tabernacle.

Would this agree with your understanding of it?

[url=http://www.phoenixmasonry.org/king_solomons_temple/table_of_contents.htm]http://www.phoenixmasonry.org/king_solomons_temple/table_of_contents.htm[/url]

This is published by the FREEMASONS!!!! The eye in the triangle at the top made it obvious that this was a spiritually unclean source, without need to read further.

In any case where is the relevance to this discussion? We are concerned with what the Bible says, not with Freemasonary!

Are you perhaps saying that this is where the Jewish movement to rebuild the Temple got their information?

But, even if they did, [i]what difference does it make to the present discussion???[/i]

As far as I know, no-one is saying (especially in the light of New Testament truth) that the Jews are [i]right[/i] to rebuild the Temple, and reinstate the sacrifices - only that Scripture seems to be saying that this [i]will[/i] happen. Also that this will mark a key stage in events leading up to the Lord's return (though the Antichrist comes first, as we are warned in Thessalonians).

The Gog and Magog war will also take place (because the historical evidence is that it hasn't yet happened), but that doesn't mean that those who attack Israel are right to do so, only that Scripture fortells it.

It is fulfillment of Bible prophecy that's important.

in Him

Jeannette

 2008/1/2 16:44









 Re: Eze 39: a question



Thanks for the link, markm. I looked at the whole set of slides. :-)

 2008/1/7 10:00









 Re: Eze 39: a question


Katy said

Quote:
I want to let you know it won't be at this moment, but wanted you to know I will respond, and that I haven't overlooked or ignored here.

Thanks Katy. I am going to be in much less evidence over the coming weeks, indefinitely, (I know I've said this before but I think it's going to happen this time.) and I just want to acknowledge that I've found this post from you, and will give it my full attention in the coming days.

 2008/1/7 10:07









 Re: Eze 39: a question


Jeannette said

Quote:
Maybe this is what you are trying to do, but the effect is the opposite - a dangerous narrowing down of truth.

I wonder whether it would be possible, then, for you to include in your posts when quoting fulfilled scripture, on which you rely for a [i]different[/i] point you are making, to lay out the distinction for the reader, yourself?

I don't believe truth can be narrowed, but, it can be presented along with statements which are untrue, or, used to bolster faulty reasoning.

And perhaps I've been completely wrong to assume that a positive witness for God is what the world requires. You are absolutely correct that the unbelieving Jew is just as much a witness, and the pain they have borne in fulfillment of the prophecies of several prophets, can be used just as clearly to support both God and scripture.

Quote:
This is published by the FREEMASONS!!!!

I noticed that (of course) and it fits with the word on the ground that they want Jerusalem. (This is not directly scriptural to my knowledge of scripture, but it is compatible with the fulfillment of prophecy, of course).

Quote:
As far as I know, no-one is saying (especially in the light of New Testament truth) that the Jews are right to rebuild the Temple, and reinstate the sacrifices

Jeannette,

I have accepted this point some time ago. The reason that I've posted these links, and questioned you, is because the Temple Institute appears to be hoping to rebuild Solomon's Temple, but it has been put to me here on SI, that the 'third temple' has to be Ezekiel's temple.

I have assumed you are aware of the differences in layout, but supplied a link of a model of Ezekiel's temple to be sure, and also, I have assumed you are aware of the differences in sacrifices required under both.

I keep raising the matter of the sacrifices, because I understood that Jesus died once for all, and there is no more sacrifice for sin. In a way, now I am asking what would the sacrifices in Ezekiel's temple be for, if it is built at some future time, as much as I am asking what is the scriptural support for the 'third temple'.

Again, I have been told that a 'third temple' is prophesied in scripture and I still don't know - apart from Ezekiel's - where there is any other reference to 'the third temple'.

Realising that non-Christian Jews are planning to build a third temple in no way answers my request for supporting scripture.

If you and others are saying that they are simply [u]guessing[/u] they need a temple because they haven't been able to have one for so long... then please tell me that's all there is to it, and that [i]purely[/i] they are making assumptions based on the existence of a first temple.

Again, I would bring forward for general consumption...

John 4
21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.
22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.
23 But the hour cometh, [u]and now is[/u], when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
24 God [i]is[/i] a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship [i]him[/i] in spirit and in truth.
25 The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things.
26 Jesus saith unto her, I that speak unto thee am [i]he[/i].

 2008/1/7 10:29
psalm1
Member



Joined: 2007/1/30
Posts: 1230


 Re:

Dorcas, Are you referring to the temple that the antichrist sacrifices a pig in?
Just wondering.

David

 2008/1/7 10:46Profile









 Re:

Quote:

psalm1 wrote:
Dorcas, Are you referring to the temple that the antichrist sacrifices a pig in?
Just wondering.

David

Hi David

A pig isn't mentioned, only that the temple is defiled. Antiochas Epiphanus, an evil Roman emperor, apparently sacrificed a pig on the altar in the Jewish temple. He was a kind of Antichrist figure, but obviously not THE Antichrist. This happened [i]before[/i] Jesus came, yet He referred to a future fulfillment, which happened in 70AD, when the temple was destroyed last time. But I doubt very much if this was the complete or final fulfillment, but that that is still to come

Of course Dorcus is right in quoting from John 4 about worshipping in spirit and in truth, just that isn't the whole story.

I found this link which explains things very clearly - better than I can! At least as far as I've read:

http://www.letusreason.org/Doct4.htm

We aren't told exactly what the Antichrist will do, except for:

Daniel 8
[color=990000]12 And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered.

13 Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?[/color]

2Thessalonians 2:

[color=990000]3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that [b]he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God[/b].[/color]

Jesus spoke of Daniel's words re the defiling of the temple:

Mt 24:15 [color=990000] When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)...[/color]

Mr 13:14 [color=990000]But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,)...[/color]

So, whether a temple such as in Ezekiel's vision, or the form of temple which present day Jews are aiming to build I don't know. But I have little doubt that there will be some form of temple, and that the Antichrist will defile it, as the above Scriptures say.

Of course, it would be possible to spiritualise the whole thing and deny any future [i]physical[/i] fulfillment at all. This is called Preterism. At its extreme it even denies the physical return of Christ.

But that's another subject...

in Him

Jeannette

 2008/1/7 11:34





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