It doesnt matter to me if i am the only christian on the planet that believes benny hinn, rodney howard browne, and steve hill are all men of God. People can say or think what they will.
It also doesnt matter to me if they go down in history as men that made a mistake or two, or men that were slightly off.
Because all men are those things.
I object to the blanket indictment of these men. They are maligned , lampooned and put on the same level [actually lower]than the devil himself.
read art katz link ch. 3.......I am one of those deluded souls.
Art portrays the dying and emptying of the believer as "total christianity"
The infilling is portrayed as deluded and wrong.
Dying? yes suffering ?yes ...These are only part of the walk.
I dont believe poonen or katz are circumspect or balanced teachers.
I disagree with them in lots of areas.
But i do believe they are men of God.
A bit "off" but men of God none the less.
I would NOT call them false prophets or devils.
Also ....do a study on "lying" signs and wonders and miracles.
This is mainly referring to the beast and anttichrist.the time of "false" is given power[possibly from heaven]
And this is what is talked about concerning last days deception.
Peter missing it on so many fronts and needing rebuke is NOT last days deception.
| 2007/12/15 15:55||Profile|
| Re: False Prophets - False Teachers|
our Lord gives us a general caution against the way of the many in religion. It is not enough to think as others think, and do as others do. It must not satisfy us to follow the fashion, and swim with the stream of those among whom we live. He tells us that the way that leads to everlasting life is "narrow," and "few" travel in it. He tells us that the way that leads to everlasting destruction is "broad," and full of travelers. "Many are those who enter in by it."
These are fearful truths! They ought to raise great searchings of heart in the minds of all who hear them. "Which way am I going? By what road am I traveling?" In one or other of the two ways here described, every one of us may be found. May God give us an honest, self-inquiring spirit, and show us what we are!
We may well tremble and be afraid, if our religion is that of the multitude. If we can say no more than this, that "we go where others go, and worship where others worship, and hope we shall do as well as others at last," we are literally pronouncing our own condemnation. What is this but being in the "broad way?" What is this but being in the road whose end is "destruction?" Our religion at present is not saving religion.
We have no reason to be discouraged and cast down, if the religion we profess is not popular, and few agree with us. We must remember the words of our Lord Jesus Christ in this passage: "The gate is narrow." Repentance, and faith in Christ, and holiness of life, have never been fashionable. The true flock of Christ has always been small. It must not move us to find that we are reckoned singular, and peculiar, and bigoted, and narrow-minded. This is "the narrow way." Surely it is better to enter into life eternal with a few, than to go to "destruction" with a great company.
In the last place, the Lord Jesus gives us a general warning against false teachers in the church. We are to "beware of false prophets." The connection between this passage and the preceding one is striking. Would we keep clear of this "broad way?" We must beware of false prophets. They will arise. They began in the days of the apostles. Even then the seeds of error were sown. They have appeared continually ever since. We must be prepared for them, and be on our guard.
This is a warning which is much needed. There are thousands who seem ready to believe anything in religion if they hear it from an ordained minister. They forget that clergymen may err as much as laymen. They are not infallible. Their teaching must be weighed in the balance of Holy Scripture. They are to be followed and believed, so long as their doctrine agrees with the Bible, but not a minute longer. We are to try them "by their fruits." Sound doctrine and holy living are the marks of true prophets. Let us remember this. Our minister's mistakes will not excuse our own. "If the blind lead the blind, both will fall into the ditch."
What is the best safe-guard against false teaching? Beyond all doubt the regular study of the word of God, with prayer for the teaching of the Holy Spirit. The Bible was given to be a lamp to our feet and a light to our path. (Psalm. 119:105.) The man who reads it aright will never be allowed greatly to err. It is neglect of the Bible which makes so many a prey to the first false teacher whom they hear. They would have us believe that "they are not learned, and do not pretend to have decided opinions." The plain truth is that they are lazy and idle about reading the Bible, and do not like the trouble of thinking for themselves. Nothing supplies false prophets with followers so much as spiritual sloth under a cloak of humility.
May we all bear in mind our Lord's warning! The world, the devil, and the flesh, are not the only dangers in the way of the Christian. There remains another yet, and that is the "false prophet," the wolf in sheep's clothing. Happy is he who prays over his Bible and knows the difference between truth and error in religion! There is a difference, and we are meant to know it, and use our knowledge.
| 2007/12/15 16:05||Profile|
True spiritual discernment is much lost sight of as a real Christian grace; discernment between the evil and the good, the false and the true. 'Beloved, believe not every spirit; but try the spirits whether they are of God; because many false prophets are gone out into the world' (1 John 4:1). This 'discernment,' which belongs to every one who is taught of God, is the very opposite of that which is called in our day by the boastful name of 'liberality.' Spiritual discernment and 'liberal thought' have little in common with each other. Truth is a mighty thing in the eyes of God, whatever it may be in those of men. All error is, more or less, whether directly or indirectly, a misrepresentation of God's character, and a subversion of His revelation.
Satan is the consummate deceiver! It is Satan who gives to the ballroom, and the dance, and the theater, and the voluptuous music their special power to harm; for these are Satan's baits and nets, by means of which he allures the unwary, and leads back the believer to unbelieving ground, disarming our watchfulness, dazzling our vision, reviving our worldliness, and perhaps, for a season, lulling us wholly asleep. we know that the last days are to be like the days of Noah and Lot (Luke 17:26-32), days of reveling, and banqueting, and luxury. Let us be wary, lest, standing as we do on the edge of these days, we be drawn away into the sins of an age led captive by Satan at his will.
| 2007/12/15 16:11||Profile|
| Re: False Prophets - False Teachers|
"The prophets who lead my people astray." Micah 3:5
Satan labors by false teachers, who are his emissaries
to deceive, delude, and forever undo the precious souls
of men! They seduce them, and carry them out of the
right way into by-paths and blind thickets of error and
wickedness--where they are lost forever!
As strumpets paint their faces, and deck and perfume
their beds, the better to allure and deceive simple souls;
so false teachers will put a great deal of paint and garnish
upon their most dangerous principles and blasphemies, that
they may the better deceive and delude poor ignorant souls.
They know sugared-poison goes down sweetly. They wrap
up their pernicious, soul-killing pills in gold! "Peace, peace!
they say, when there is no peace." Jeremiah 6:14
"Beware of false prophets, for they come to you in sheep's
clothing--but inwardly they are ravening wolves!" These
lick and suck the blood of souls! These kiss and kill! They
cry, 'Peace, peace!' until souls fall into everlasting flames!
False teachers handle holy things with wit and trifling, rather
than with fear and reverence. They are soul-murderers! They
are like evil surgeons, who skin over the wound--but never
heal it. False teachers are hell's greatest enrichers! Such
smooth teachers are sweet soul-poisoners! This age is full of
such teachers--such monsters!
They eye your goods more than your good; and mind
more the serving of themselves--than the saving of your
souls. So they may have your substance--they care not
though Satan has your souls! That they may the better
pick your purse--they will hold forth such principles as
are very indulgent to the flesh.
These are Satan's great benefactors, and such as divine
justice will hang up in hell as the greatest malefactors!
| 2007/12/15 16:20||Profile|
The True Gospel And The False - Zac Poonen
Christians are generally speaking, categorized into two groups as follows:
(1) "Roman Catholics" and "Protestants" - depending on birth.
(2) "Episcopal" (conformist) and "Free church" (non-conformist) - depending on church-pattern.
(3) "Born again Christians" and "Nominal Christians" - depending on an "experience";
(4) "Evangelicals" and "Liberals" - depending on doctrine.
(5) "Charismatics" and "Non-charismatics" - depending on "speaking in tongues".
(6) "Full-time Christian workers" and "Secular workers" - depending on profession.
There could be other such categorizations too. But none of these categorizations deal with the root of the problem that our Lord came to solve.
Many know that "Christ died for our sins" (1 Cor.15:3). But many do not know that the Bible says that Christ also died "that we should no longer live for ourselves but for Him" (2 Cor.5:15).
A more Scriptural way of categorizing Christians therefore would be as follows: "Those who live for themselves" and "Those who live for Christ"; or "Those who seek their own" and "Those who seek the things of Christ" or "Those who seek earthly things first" and "Those who seek the kingdom of God first"; or "Those who love money" and "Those who love God". (Jesus said it was impossible to love both -Lk.16:13)
But I have never heard of such a categorization being used. This categorization deals with the Christian's inner life and private walk with God, whereas the methods mentioned earlier deal with the external details of his life. Yet it is in this latter way that heaven categorizes Christians. And if that be the case, then this is the only categorization that matters! In this method, others cannot categorize us. We have to categorize ourselves - for no one but we ourselves know our inner motivations and desires. Even our wives may not be aware what we are living for.
Our Lord did not come primarily to give people a doctrine, or a church-pattern or to make them speak in tongues or even to give them an experience!
He came to "save us from sin". He came to lay the axe to the root of the tree. And the root of sin is : Being centered in ourselves, seeking our own and doing our own will. If we do not permit the Lord to axe and uproot this "root" from our lives, we will be Christians only superficially. Satan may however deceive us into imagining that we belong to a higher class than other Christians, because of our doctrine or our experience or our church-pattern!
Satan doesn't care even if we have the right doctrine, experience and church-pattern, so long as we continue to "live for ourselves" (This, by the way, is just another phrase for "living in sin"!!). Christendom today is filled with Christians who seek their own and live for themselves, who are yet convinced that God views them as superior to other Christians, merely because of doctrinal differences or church-pattern or "experiences". This shows what a great work Satan has succeeded in doing in Christendom.
In John 6:38, our Lord said that He came from heaven to earth:
(1) To deny His human will (that He had acquired, when He came to earth as a Man), and (2) To do the will of His Father, as a Man. Thereby He became our example.
Throughout Jesus' earthly life -- during all His 331/2; years - He denied his own will and did His Father's will. And He told His disciples clearly that those who wanted to be His disciples would have to go the same way. He came to hit at the root of sin in our lives - "doing our own will" - and to deliver us from that.
In the realm of science, for thousands of years, man made the mistake of imagining that the earth was the center of the universe. It looked like that to human eyes - because the sun, moon and stars did indeed appear to be revolving around the earth once every 24 hours. It took the courage of a man like Copernicus to question this popular notion, just about 450 years ago, and to show that it was utterly false and that the earth was not even the center of the solar system, leave alone the universe. The earth, he showed was created to be centered in the sun. As long as man had the wrong center, his scientific calculations and deductions were wrong - because his center was wrong. But once man discovered the right center, then these calculations and deductions turned out right.
It is the same with us when we remain "self-centered" instead of being "God-centered". Our understanding of the Bible and of God's perfect will (our calculations and deductions) will then be wrong. But just as men were convinced for over 5000 years that they were right (as we saw above), we too may imagine that we are right! But actually, we will be 100% wrong.
This is what we see even among many "good Christians" today. They have so many different interpretations of the same Bible - and yet each one is convinced that his interpretation alone is right and everyone else's is wrong. The others, they will say are "deceived". Why is this so? Because they've got their center wrong.
Man was created to be centered in God and not in himself. And when Christians have got their center wrong, their "gospel" will be wrong too. Basically, there are only two gospels being preached today - one man-centered and the other God-centered.
The man-centered gospel promises man that God will give him everything he needs to make his life on earth comfortable and will also give him a seat in heaven at the end of his life. Man is told that Jesus will forgive all his sins, heal all his diseases, bless and prosper him materially, solve all his earthly problems, etc., etc.
Self still remains at the center of such a man's life, and God revolves around him - as his servant - to answer his every prayer and to give him whatever he wants!! All that he has to do is "believe" and "claim every material blessing in Jesus' Name"!!
This is a false gospel, because no mention is made of "repentance". Repentance is what John the Baptist, Jesus, Paul, Peter and all the apostles preached first of all. And repentance, unfortunately, is what is not preached today, even last of all!!
The God-centered gospel, on the other hand, calls upon man to repent. It explains that "repentance" means:
Turning FROM Self as the center of one's life, from doing one's own will, from walking along one's self-chosen way, from loving money, and from loving the world and the things in the world (the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes and the pride of life), etc., and
Turning TO God, loving Him with one's whole heart, making Him the Centre of one's life and doing His will henceforth etc.,
Faith in Christ's death on the cross can forgive a man his sins only when he has repented. Then he can receive the power of the Holy Spirit empower him to deny himself daily so that he can live a God-centered life. This is the gospel that Jesus and the apostles preached.
The false gospel makes the gate wide and the way broad (easy to walk along, because one does not have to deny one's Self or stop living for one's own interests or stop seeking one's own gain). Millions attend meetings where such a false "gospel" is preached. And many enter through this gate and walk along this way, imagining that it leads to life. But it actually leads to destruction. The evangelists of this gospel however gloat in, and report about the large numbers of people who "raised their hands and made decisions for Christ" in their meetings!! But it is all a deception. Although some are indeed genuinely converted in such meetings, because of their sincerity, many such "converts" end up becoming "twofold children of hell" (Matt.23:15) - deceived about their true state.
The true gospel however, makes the gate small and the way narrow - not smaller or narrower than Jesus Himself made it, as some "super-spiritual" cultists do, but just the same size as Jesus made it. Few there be, that find this way to life. There is not much for the evangelists of this gospel to report about, and the statistics are not impressive. But this gospel leads people to the Lord Jesus and to heaven.
"Be careful how you listen. Whoever obeys what he has heard, to him more light and understanding will be given. But whoever does not obey what he has heard, even what light and understanding he thinks he has will be taken away from him." (Paraphrase of Luke 8:18).
He who has ears to hear, let him hear
| 2007/12/15 16:26||Profile|
one would have to wonder if God himself knew what he was talking about when he said "if a son asks for a fish will his father give him a serpent?"
Since the devil is so powerfull to diecieve maybe we should not even pray to God for fear the more powerfull devil will instead answer our prayers
| 2007/12/15 16:28||Profile|
almost everything with God is man centered. he even gave his son for man.
Even the gospel[good news] is man centered
Maybe God hasnt read the Katz books
| 2007/12/15 16:37||Profile|
| Re: False Prophets - False Teachers|
A very intresting [url=http://www.cfcindia.net/vbvaudio/Matthew/08_Matthew_Ch7-6_Ch7-29.mp3]bible study about Jesus words in[/url] Matt 7:6-7:29 by Zac Poonen
| 2007/12/15 16:44||Profile|
also ....I dont know of anyone who got saved just to make God happy
no, we all got saved for us. We wanted something for us.......Salvation!
we are man centered.
what do you think pride is?
We all have it and we are all sefish.
Do you know i can glory in my great accomplishments of sanctification and dying?
Mayby those that seem the holiest seem that way because they convinced us?
| 2007/12/15 16:47||Profile|
yes all those people wrote books. Are they about God? or their preoccupation even obsession with man and the devil.
They tell you the opposite and yet look at the subject matter ....MAN!
repentance message is man centered. Ask any english teacher.
God is not the one repenting.
Guess what Man is .....So repentance message is a man centered message.
| 2007/12/15 16:54||Profile|