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 Re:

Quote:
God sent His Son to speak to a generation that lived 2000 years ago. And like you said, now the Holy Spirit speaks to us. Prior to Christ coming as man, how did God speak to men?




Actually this is what the Scriptures say:

Hebrews 1
1God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,


2Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

3Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

Peter also testifying here in 1st Peter says:

1 Peter 1
1Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,

2Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

4To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,

5Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

6Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a season, if need be, ye are in heaviness through manifold temptations:

7That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:

8Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory:

9Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

10Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:

11Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.

12Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.

13Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;

Love inChrist
Katy-Did

 2007/11/13 16:46









 Re: Holy Spirit


Jeff wrote

Quote:
Likewise if the "shadow" exists in the OT, one might think that there is something that "exists" that creates that shadow.

Indeed, but it is from [i]before[/i] [b]time[/b].



In your next post to Katy, you said...

Quote:
Ezek. 20:25 “Therefore I also gave them up to statutes that were not good, and judgments by which they could not live; 26 and I pronounced them unclean because of their ritual gifts, in that they caused all their firstborn to pass through the fire, that I might make them desolate and that they might know that I am the LORD.” ’

If the Lord gives one over to the effects of the Law given on Mount Sinai, there is no hope of salvation...

Jeff, surely there was no hope of salvation for idolaters, because there was no forgiveness, only the vengeance permitted under the Law, as a clear statement of God's inability to tolerate sin?

For those who kept the Law [u]faith[/u]fully, there were sacrifices sufficient for God's satisfaction, against sin, but He always intended to destroy the sinful nature. It is almost as if He was waiting for it to reach a certain level of maturity, before dealing with it conclusively in Jesus Christ.


 2007/11/13 18:16









 Re: Holy Spirit


Katy-did said

Quote:
Melchizedek was “without father, without mother” (Heb. 7:3a). The meaning is this: his divine role was not handed down from his parents. So, neither was Jesus’ priesthood determined by a physical lineage...

Yet, our Lord, from the foundation of the World, entered inot an Everlasting Covenant, was by an OATH, also clearly stated in Hebrews...

this Priesthood came into affect After Jesus Christ Died upon the Cross, and HIS Shed Blood sealed that OATH...

Thank you for this explanation. I knew bits of it, but particularly how the oath fits in was a mystery, and also, that Christ did not become our High Priest until [i]after[/i] He had become our sacrifice. It seems obvious now, but I'd always wondered how that worked!

 2007/11/13 18:29
rookie
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Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4792


 Re:

Sister Katy wrote:

Quote:
Actually this is what the Scriptures say:



Then you quoted Hebrew and 1 Peter...

Are you refering to "...the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify..."

Your brother in Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2007/11/14 1:00Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4792


 Re:

Sister Lyn wrote:

Quote:
Jeff, surely there was no hope of salvation for idolaters, because there was no forgiveness, only the vengeance permitted under the Law, as a clear statement of God's inability to tolerate sin?



I was refering to Romans 1 and Proverbs 1 when Scripture teaches that God gives men over because they continually deny God.

Proverbs 1:

24 Because I have called and you refused,
I have stretched out my hand and no one regarded,
25 Because you disdained all my counsel,
And would have none of my rebuke,
26 I also will laugh at your calamity;
I will mock when your terror comes,
27 When your terror comes like a storm,
And your destruction comes like a whirlwind,
When distress and anguish come upon you.
28 “Then they will call on me, but I will not answer;
They will seek me diligently, but they will not find me.

Romans 1
22 Professing to be wise, they became fools, 23 and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man—and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things.

Rom. 1:24 Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves,

We are given this testimony...

24 Because I have called and you refused,
I have stretched out my hand and no one regarded,
25 Because you disdained all my counsel,
And would have none of my rebuke,

What do these words imply...is it actually a visible hand that God extends to men? When Scripture testifies that God "called" and God "counsels" by what means does He accomplish this work?

What does it mean for those whom He gives over?

Your brother in Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2007/11/14 1:09Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4792


 Re:

Sister Katy...

Do you believe that Melchizedek was sent by God to minister to Abraham?



Quote:
Why was it necessary to set up a Levitical Priesthood if Melchizedek were in fact Jesus Christ Eternal to begin with. Things would have gone on exactly that way from the beginning.



As the Scriptures point out in Ezekiel that the nation of Israel did not obey God. He offered them rest but because of unbelief they did not enter in. After God repented and still brought them out into the wilderness, then He gave the a covenant which taught them by the things which are seen.

Why does God send His high priest Melchizedek to Abraham?

Your brother in Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2007/11/14 1:19Profile
rookie
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Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4792


 Re:

Sister Katy...

Have you considered either the prophesy given to King Ahaz or now the Scripture that I wrote about in Ezekiel?

In Christ
Jeff


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2007/11/14 1:20Profile
rookie
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Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4792


 Re:

Hebrews 6:

1 For this Melchizedek, king of Salem, priest of the Most High God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings and blessed him, 2 to whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all, first being translated “king of righteousness,” and then also king of Salem, meaning “king of peace,” 3 without father, without mother, without genealogy, having neither beginning of days nor end of life, but made like the Son of God, remains a priest continually.

This Melchizedek was both king and priest. The Scriptures describe the quality of this king by the name given to him....king of righteousness, and king of peace. This king, this priest who met Abraham was "made like the Son of God." And this king that met Abraham "remains a priest continually....

In Scripture we find that God places great emphasis on His name.

ie...

Ezekiel 20

9 But I acted for My name’s sake, that it should not be profaned before the Gentiles among whom they were, in whose sight I had made Myself known to them, to bring them out of the land of Egypt.

14 But I acted for My name’s sake, that it should not be profaned before the Gentiles, in whose sight I had brought them out.

22 Nevertheless I withdrew My hand and acted for My name’s sake, that it should not be profaned in the sight of the Gentiles, in whose sight I had brought them out.

Ezek. 20:39 “As for you, O house of Israel,” thus says the Lord GOD: “Go, serve every one of you his idols—and hereafter—if you will not obey Me; but profane My holy name no more with your gifts and your idols.

44 Then you shall know that I am the LORD, when I have dealt with you for My name’s sake, not according to your wicked ways nor according to your corrupt doings, O house of Israel,” says the Lord GOD.’ ”

So then when we are given a name that describes a priesthood that is represented as both the king of righteousness and the king of peace...a priest who is "made like the Son of God" and finally a priesthood "that never ends" what might we conclude about this priest who was sent by God to Abraham?

In Christ
Jeff


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2007/11/14 2:22Profile









 Re:

Quote:
Are you refering to "...the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify..."



Jeff, it is referring to when the Spirit of Christ would be "in them".

Why would they prophecy of something >>>>>looking for a time, if that time all ready existed. Read all the verses, I believe include that of Jesus Christ and his resurrection. and that the promise of the Spirit of Christ, who sets you free from the Law of Sin and Death that is [i][b]now[/b][/i] *in us*, only came after the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

Jesus own words, in the Gospels, says HE will send the Spirit, after he goes to the Father.

Unless this is understood, nothing will make much sense to you.

The Spirit of Christ is the Spirit that identifies us with Jesus Christ in Death and resurrection Life. This is all that Paul is talking about in Galatians.....Concerning our Life under Grace, "I am Crucified with Christ". Galatians 2 , he goes on to explain in Chapters 3, 4 and 5 what this Spirit is. as does Romans 6-8.

The Spirit of GRACE, also again in Hebrews 10.
Those under Law were warned that staying under LAW insulted the Spirit of Grace, The Blood of the Covenant, and trampled the Son of God underfoot. All three are witnesses of truth and a Trinity within itself. All truth have these witnesses of truth. Two or Three witnesses.

If they posessed this in the OT, why such warnings!!!

1st John testifies to this trinity of truth,

*The Spirit, the Blood and the Water are ONE.*

Keep your eyes on Jesus Christ.


Quote:
This Melchizedek was both king and priest



Where in Scripture does Melchizedek have any such witnesses? The Spirit , the Blood and the Water?

The Spirit of Christ
The Blood of Christ
The WORD( Water) of God, who became flesh and dwelt among us. Where are such things said of him....Melchizedek..? No-Where! A [i][b]type[/b][/i] is a [i][b]type[/b][/i], not the actual. Types are in Scripture to help us understand more fully [i][b]Doctrine[/b][/i]!!!

PS: Sorry, the upper case was not intended for shouting, but emphasis!! (Old habits are hard to break)


Love in Christ
Katy-Did


PS, Jeff, I will show you through Moses, Joseph, Joshua what is meant by a *type of Christ* and how it applies to our learning doctrine when I have time.

:-)
PS: Added

Jeff, I found something that will help you in your studies. *Types and Shadows*.

Hope you are blessed by this study!


http://www.e-grace.net/webgrace/types.html


 2007/11/14 8:06









 Re:


Jeff, You asked:

Quote:
Have you considered either the prophesy given to King Ahaz or now the Scripture that I wrote about in Ezekiel?



Is this what you are referring to?

Isaiah 7:13-15
13And he said, Hear ye now, O house of David; Is it a small thing for you to weary men, but will ye weary my God also?
14Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.
15Butter and honey shall he eat, that he may know to refuse the evil, and choose the good.

Matthew 1:22-24
22Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying,
23Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.
24Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife:



Answered by Got Questions.org
Why wasn't Jesus named Immanuel?
________________________________________


Question: "Why wasn't Jesus named Immanuel?"

Answer: In the prophecy of the virgin birth, Isaiah 7:14, the prophet Isaiah declared, "Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and will call Him Immanuel." This prophecy refers to the birth of Jesus in Matthew 1:22-23, "All this took place to fulfill what the Lord had said through the prophet: 'The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel' which means, 'God with us.'" This does not mean, however, that the Messiah’s name would actually be Immanuel.

There are many names given to Jesus using the phrase “He shall be called,” both in the Old and New Testaments. This was a common way of saying that people would refer to Him in these various ways. Isaiah prophesied of the Messiah, “His name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace” (Isaiah 9:6). None of these titles was Jesus’ actual name, but these were descriptions people would use to refer to Him forever. Luke tells us Jesus “shall be called the Son of the Highest” (Luke 1:32) and “son of God” (1:35) and “the prophet of the Highest” (1:76), but none of these was His name.

In two different places, the prophet Jeremiah says in referring to the coming Messiah, “And this is His name by which He shall be called, JEHOVAH, OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS” (Jeremiah 23:5-6; 33:15-16). Now we know that God, the Father, is named Jehovah. Jesus was never actually called Jehovah as though it was His name, but His role was that of bringing the righteousness of Jehovah to those who would believe in Him, exchanging that righteousness for our sin (2 Corinthians 5:21). Therefore, this is one of the many titles or “names” which belong to Him.

In the same way, to say that Jesus would be called "Immanuel" means Jesus is God and that He dwelt among us in His incarnation and that He is always with us. Jesus was God in the flesh. Jesus was God making His dwelling among us (John 1:1,14). No, Jesus' name was not Immanuel, but Jesus was the meaning of Immanuel, "God with us." Immanuel is one of the many titles for Jesus, a description of who He is.



I would say I'm in 100 % agreement with this.

Love in Christ
Katy-Did

 2007/11/14 14:00





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