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 Re:

Quote:
Dear Katy-------**-wonderful!** As the apostle Paul says, a natural branch, grafted back into their own olive tree, after previously being 'broken off'.



No Sharon, I was never previously broken off.

Quote:
You also said------quote: "If memory serves me well, you say you are a wild branch grafted into the Natural! Correct. Saying you were grafted into Israel?????? Or grafted into the Covenants given to Israel????



Quote:
Yes I did say that Katy, quoting again from the apostle Paul in Romans 11 and also from Ephesians 2 etc.




Sharon, in the OT, when a Gentile like Ruth became part of Israel, they were called proselytes, not Jews.

In you reference concerning Romans 11, Please keep in mind Jesus Christ is the root, not Israel. And the very root of the Promises were rooted in those Given to Abraham and his seed, not as MANY seeds, but one, Christ.

You nor I *become* Jews, and that is not what Romans 11 is about.

Just as Paul said to Peter in Galatia, when Peter was being a hypocrite and sitting with the Jews for fear of them and their still being , for use of a better word I cannot find ….(uppity) Paul rebukes him openly and says, are Gentiles now the sinners of Jews?

The Church is neither Jew or Gentile, but a New Creature in Christ….something wholly and completely different.

The Promises made to Abraham are these, In Thee, ( thy seed……CHRIST) shall all families of the earth be blessed.

We must remember too, Jesus said, “I am the vine, and you are the branches and my Father is the Husbandman“. Our life is in Jesus Christ alone, the resurrected Christ. Our life is abiding in Christ, not in Israel or Judaism.

Circumcision means nothing and un-circumcision means nothing but a New Creature, no longer Jew or Gentile. But ONE NEW MAN, in Christ.

You're not a proselyte dear, or a sinner of the Jews. Paul said, I am Crucified to the world and the World is crucified to me.

It would appear that (Mainstream Christianity ) has lost it’s way, believing the Church has replaced Israel, and that all the promises , including those given exclusively to Israel in OT, and the future Kingdom belong as well to us. Although we are partakers of those promises given to Abraham, but those given to Israel were earthly promises for earthly blessings. So many who teach the prosperity Gospel use these to justify their teaching. Our blessings are in Heaven, not here on earth.

The Spirit of Christ, is the outward manifestation of the *suffering Church* here on earth, not the prosperity church. As we see in Esau, many are selling their birthright for momentary gratification of earthly blessings, avoiding the fellowship of His sufferings NOW, hoping to make up for it during the tribulation period and suffer then, hoping to endure to the end securing their salvation if they so endure, but now are indulged in prosperity. No can do. If these same people died today, and never see the tribulation period, that has never been or will ever be such like it again, what will they have to show for it? We NOW bear in our bodies the Marks of the Lord Jesus, …I am Crucified with Christ, Crucified to the World and the World Crucified to us even as we speak. The Israel of God (Galatians) is the believing remnant of Jews, according to the election of Grace ( Calvary), who’s home is in Heaven, were NEVER broken off. Romans 11:5-7.

With Love in Christ Jesus
Katy-Did

 2007/11/11 12:34
wildbranch
Member



Joined: 2005/7/20
Posts: 138


 Re:

Katy---------I agree with you "You nor I *become* Jews, and that is not what Romans 11 is about."

We cannot become Jews, and are not required to at all.......a Jew is someone from the tribe of Judah (as Yeshua was).

I agree with you, I am not a proselyte to Judaism. That would mean denying my Messiah, and coming under a set of rabbinic rules and laws that have been added to God's perfect law, against the injunction to not 'add to or take away from it".

The problem is most do not want to be grafted into the richness of the olive tree....as Paul says..."to them (Israelites, belong the sonship, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the worship, and the promises, to them belong the patriarchs, and according to the flesh, is the Messiah"..
----instead they have started their own new tree, devoid of the holy root..."aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, strangers to the covenants of promise"...(Paul again, in Ephesians)
Many would claim all the promises in scriptures that were given to the Israelites, and never once consider the *if* factor...if you obey etc. They basically pick and choose which aspects of God's teachings they feel will fit into the new tree, and reject all else.

Messiah himself said he came only for the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Sorry for thinking you had been a natural branch that had been grafted back into the olive tree as Paul speaks about. Paul does say 'some were broke off', which of course means 'not all'.

Sharon




 2007/11/11 13:55Profile









 Re:

Quote:
Many would claim all the promises in scriptures that were given to the Israelites, and never once consider the *if* factor...if you obey etc.



Sharon, tht is what is so wonderful about the New Covenant....I WILL put my Spirit in you and cause you to walk in my statutes.

He who has begun a good work in you WILL continue it until the day of Jesus Christ.

It is God who works in you to will and to do of His good pleasure.

I will put my fear in you, that you will not depart from me.

Out with the Old and into the New. Our life behind/through the veil,, Crucified with Christ and raised a New Creation. That Spirit of the Life of Christ that set us free from the Law of Sin and death.

Our wonderful life under Grace, where we have the anointing of the Holy Spirit, that we DO abide in Him.

I've heard it said that only 5% of professing Christians really know and understand their position "In Christ", and the other 95% are still struggling by trying to keep the *IF* factor.

Let's pray more will find this incredible life of Christ in you, who took care of the *IF* factor through the New Covenant, as our *Surity* in making sure the *if's* are all given to Christ to the Glory of God.

Romans 6
KNOW,
RECKON,
YIELD.

Love in Christ
Katy-Did

PS, Yes, after the fulness of the Gentiles come in, then those who were blinded/broken off, will be grafted in again.

 2007/11/11 14:12
wildbranch
Member



Joined: 2005/7/20
Posts: 138


 Re:

Katy, I agree with your statement!------quote: "Sharon, tht is what is so wonderful about the New Covenant....I WILL put my Spirit in you and cause you to walk in my statutes"

When we have His Spirit, he causes us to walk in His statutes and we do so out of a heart of joy, loving every minute of it!

 2007/11/11 14:27Profile









 Re: Holy Spirit


Katy-did said

Quote:
In you reference concerning Romans 11, Please keep in mind Jesus Christ is the root, not Israel.

Sister, you made my day.

Your comments on Sion are also interesting. I will bear them in mind while reading.

Remember when Jesus said one of the disciples was to betray Him, and instead of looking round at each other, they all asked Him which of them it was to be? The more I consider that He had come from glory

John 17:24
... that they may behold My glory which You have given Me; for You loved Me before the foundation of the world.

the more 'from everlasting to everlasting' is being impressed on me. Jesus must have had (quite apart from all that He did), an other-world-liness about Him. And yet He was so ordinary looking, that the Pharisees had to get someone to identify Him to them.

Thank you for your exposition about the New Covenant.

 2007/11/11 16:20









 Re:

Hi Dorcas,

When the Lord showed me SION, I was so so excited. I always get so excited to see these things.

You know too, Jesus said to the Pharisees who thought because they were Abraham's seed and heirs to the Covenants of Promise, that before Abraham was *I AM*, clearly stating HE is/was God from before the foundation of the world. That's what really made them mad, because he was saying He was God.

They had a head knowledge of the Covenants of Promise and yet still missed the mark because they rejected the Deity of Christ who was with the Father before the foundation of the world.

They put their faith in Covenants, not in Christ!

There is a wide gap between religion and relationship. Religion wants to KEEP a Covenant. Relationship, however is Christ keeping us, THROUGH His Covenant Promises.

Thank you so much for your comment here, because it really drove home how important that one point is. Not all Israel is Israel, but in Isaac will thy seed be called....refering to Christ, from before the foundation of the World.

God Bless you Dorcas!!!

Love in Christ
Katy-Did

 2007/11/11 17:02
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4792


 Re:

Brother Phillip wrote:

Quote:
Why would we want to consider these when we have Jesus Christ unvailed. These have no life in them only a picture pointing to the Life in Christ.



"Shadrach; to Mishael, Meshach; and to Azariah, Abed-nego' had life because of an intercessor whom Scripture describes as...

Dan. 3:25 “Look!” he answered, “I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire; and they are not hurt, and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God.”

If you believe like a Jehova Witness, then this is Jesus when He was and angel like Michael.

But Scripture clearly says that Jesus was not an angel...

Heb. 1:5 For to which of the angels did He ever say:
“You are My Son,
Today I have begotten You”? And again:
“I will be to Him a Father,
And He shall be to Me a Son”?

"For to which of the angels (did He ever say)....

If you believe like a dispensationalist, you will reject the work of Jesus in the OT. And therefore reject the doctrine of the Trinity.

Heb 1:

7 And of the angels He says:
“Who makes His angels spirits
And His ministers a flame of fire.”
8 But to the Son He says:
“Your throne, O God, is forever and ever;
A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.
9 You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness;
Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You
With the oil of gladness more than Your companions.”
10 And:
“You, LORD, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth,
And the heavens are the work of Your hands.

Jesus, the Son of God is the Lord, the Holy One of Israel. Just because one does not have the NT and greater revealation of who the Holy One is, this does not hinder the hand of God in the way the Potter's hands formed the clay in the OT. No one has seen the Father except the Son. And the Son has revealed the Father to all men in all generations.

Heb. 4:6 Since therefore it remains that some must enter it, and those to whom it was first preached did not enter because of disobedience, 7 again He designates a certain day, saying in David, “Today,” after such a long time, as it has been said:
“Today, if you will hear His voice,
Do not harden your hearts.”

The word of God has always had the power to save....

To know doctrines is one thing but to know His ways is salvation...


Psa. 119:9 How can a young man cleanse his way?
By taking heed according to Your word.

Psa. 119:14 I have rejoiced in the way of Your testimonies,
As much as in all riches.
15 I will meditate on Your precepts,
And contemplate Your ways.

Psa. 119:26 I have declared my ways, and You answered me;
Teach me Your statutes.
27 Make me understand the way of Your precepts;
So shall I meditate on Your wonderful works.

Psa. 119:29 Remove from me the way of lying,
And grant me Your law graciously.
30 I have chosen the way of truth;
Your judgments I have laid before me.

Psa. 119:33 Teach me, O LORD, the way of Your statutes,
And I shall keep it to the end.

Psa. 119:37 Turn away my eyes from looking at worthless things,
And revive me in Your way.

Psa. 119:59 I thought about my ways,
And turned my feet to Your testimonies.

Psa. 119:101 I have restrained my feet from every evil way,
That I may keep Your word.

Psa. 119:104 Through Your precepts I get understanding;
Therefore I hate every false way.

Psa. 119:128 Therefore all Your precepts concerning all things
I consider to be right;
I hate every false way.

Psa. 119:168 I keep Your precepts and Your testimonies,
For all my ways are before You.

God has always required of man that man turn from his way and seek the Lord's way. God has always required of man to love Him with all of his heart, strength and mind. John writes that the purpose of God work in us...

1John 2:5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him.

If you read "His word" found in Psalm 119, you see that God has perfected the Psalmist love for Him.

Search the Scriptures in Psalm 119 and see if it is true...

Your brother in Christ
Jeff



_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2007/11/12 2:20Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4792


 Re:

Sister Katy wrote:

Quote:
God has dealt with men through out the centuries through "Covenants".



Sis, you always refer to the law given to Moses on Mount Sinai...yet we know that there was also another coventant in place that preceded the "covenant given on Mount Sinai"

Genesis 16: 7 And I will establish My covenant between Me and you and your descendants after you in their generations, for an everlasting covenant, to be God to you and your descendants after you.

Like the covenant that God swore to His Son,


Heb. 7:21 (for they have become priests without an oath, but He with an oath by Him who said to Him:
“The LORD has sworn
And will not relent,
‘You are a priest forever
According to the order of Melchizedek’ ”),

God made a covenant with Abraham and in each generation after him that God would be God to them, and they would be His people...

Do you say that this covenant has no effect in each generation? Does not Scripture declare that God by grace has established a remnant in all generations?

In Christ
Jeff


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2007/11/12 2:36Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4792


 Re:

Sister Katy,

Have you considered how God established this prophesy during the life of King Ahaz?

Is. 7:13 Then he said, “Hear now, O house of David! Is it a small thing for you to weary men, but will you weary my God also? 14 Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a Son, and shall call His name Immanuel. 15 Curds and honey He shall eat, that He may know to refuse the evil and choose the good. 16 For before the Child shall know to refuse the evil and choose the good, the land that you dread will be forsaken by both her kings. 17 The LORD will bring the king of Assyria upon you and your people and your father’s house—days that have not come since the day that Ephraim departed from Judah.”

Who is this Child..."For before the Child shall know to refuse the evil and choose the good..."

How does Scripture reveal the Child to King Ahaz?

In Christ
Jeff


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2007/11/12 2:42Profile









 Re:

Quote:
Sis, you always refer to the law given to Moses on Mount Sinai...yet we know that there was also another coventant in place that preceded the "covenant given on Mount Sinai"



Jeff, actually there are 8 Covenants. Several I've discussed, but not all here.

I believe I did say the "Everlasting Covenant" was first revealed in Genesis 3:15 and will be completely fulfilled at the end of the age when Jesus takes the Throne of David, reigns and rules, until he has put all things under Him, ( 1st Corinthians 15)also states as well.

Maybe you missed that posting.

Hebrews 13:20&21 let us know that Covenant is well on it's way, overthrowing Mt. Sinai, as well as the NEW Covenant overthrowing Mt. Sinai (2 Corinthians 3).

Hopefully I have been focusing on these two Covenants in Contrast to the one given to Moses. (Hebrews 12 and 2 Corinthians 3).

Quote:
God made a covenant with Abraham and in each generation after him that God would be God to them, and they would be His people...



Was that not covered in the post referring to Romans 9-11, discussing with Wildbranch?

This same covenant is also seen in Galatians....that the Blessings of Abraham would come on the Gentiles, that they would receive the promise of the Spirit....the Spirit of the Life of Christ that set us free from the law of sin and death.(I am Crucified with Christ)..The life that we live by the faith of Christ is, not only includes the Everlasting Covenant, but the New Covenant as well. We are now above and FREE.

Quote:
Do you say that this covenant has no effect in each generation? Does not Scripture declare that God by grace has established a remnant in all generations?



I believe I also established this with Wildbranch in referencing Romans 11:5-7. Is there any other remnant you may be refering to?

I believe I said Abraham, or the covenant made to Abraham is the root in Romans 11, but deeper than this Jesus Christ is the root of the Covenant with Abraham. In Isaac will thy seed be called, not seeds as in many but seed as **ONE**, and that seed is Christ.

This is fully explained in Galatians, all chapters in fact go greatly into detail.

I'm sorry Jeff, could you be more specific what your question is?

Love in Christ
Katy-Did

 2007/11/12 6:25





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