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Christinyou
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Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3695
Ca.

 Re:

Hebrews 10:20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;

No flesh or blood in the old covenant could give this new and living way.

You cannot put new wine in old wine skins.

This is a new covenant in His Blood, not old testament blood of animals.

This just being taking the old and and making it obsolete. How can you make the old covenant take on the New Covenant in His blood. You cannot.

Jeremiah 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

This is the new covenant in His Blood. Then since the Jew did not receive it and killed the Lord of Glory, going back to their old ways and continuing in temple sacrifice and all the old Law. Why do you think Jerusalem was destroyed by God in A.D. 70? Israel cannot make sacrifice until this day. God has used Moslems to keep them from making sacrifice on the temple mount. The sanctuary and the Holy of Holies does not exist anymore. The is only one Holy Place now and that is in Christ and Christ being born again in the believer.

In that He Himself, Jesus Christ is now our sacrifice and New Testament in His Blood, we cannot put this New Wine into the Old wine skins. That he died in the stead or place of sinners, is abundantly clear from the following passages of Scripture: Joh 1:29; Eph 5:2; Heb 7:27; 1Jo 2:2; 4:10; Isa 53:10; Ro 8:32; 2Co 5:15.

Much more than the old testament ever offered in its works oriented and animal sacrifice, He has become our High Priest and the Last Sacrifice at the same time.

This is what Paul fought for his whole ministry. He offered it to the Jews and they would not receive it so God sent him to the Gentiles and they would hear it.

Acts 28:25-28 And when they agreed not among themselves, they departed, after that Paul had spoken one word, Well spake the Holy Ghost by Esaias the prophet unto our fathers, Saying, Go unto this people, and say, Hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and not perceive: For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them. Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it.

Paul makes his whole life, in that God chose him from his mothers womb to bring this message.

Galatians 1:15-19 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace, To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood: Neither went I up to Jerusalem to them which were apostles before me; but I went into Arabia, and returned again unto Damascus. Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to see Peter, and abode with him fifteen days. But other of the apostles saw I none, save James the Lord's brother.

Paul has a new revelation and that was: God revealing His Son in Paul, which no other person knew or even considered that God would now because of His Sons Glory for what He did at the Cross place Him by His Spirit in the believer. This is the Gospel Paul was chosen to give to us.

"called me by his grace, To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen;

This He did not learn form the old testament of man or any other way except direct for Jesus Christ Himself. So no man could have known it.

Galatians 1:10-12 For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ. But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

If this is not a mystery revealed I don't know what is. A mystery that was not know from the foundation of the World. No man had it.

Colossians 1:25-28 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God; Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:

The mystery: which no man had until Paul.
Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:

If Peter and the apostles understood this, why did God choose Paul? according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;

This is the final Gospel given to Paul, "Christ in you the Hope of Glory. Fight it all you want and put New wine in old wine skins and the New Wine is destroyed and spilled on the ground. You must separate the Word and rightly divide it or you commingle the Old with the New and destroy both.

Even to the dividing asunder the soul and spirit and body.

Hebrews 4:12-16 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do. Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession. For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

The Old did not receive it but the New will.

Hebrews 4:1-11 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it. For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it. For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works. And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest. Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief: Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts. For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day. There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

None in the old testament or the New had knowledge of the Mystery, lest they would hear it. Only Paul was chosen for Christ to be revealed in him that he might preach it all the saints that would believe because of his words and the Faith and Grace of God in Christ Jesus.

Do you hear it? It is professed we would.
Acts 28:28 Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it.

Don't let Satan take away our birth right which is in Christ Jesus, and given to Paul to give to us to fulfill this Plan of God, which is Christ in you the Hope of Glory.

Colossians 1:25 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;

In Christ: Phillip


_________________
Phillip

 2007/12/18 19:24Profile









 Re: Holy Spirit


Hi Phillip,

You asked

Quote:
If Peter and the apostles understood this, why did God choose Paul?

Don't you see it as a matter of 'body ministry'? That this gift was given to Paul, but the other apostles were partakers of it, and also, their contributions ministered to Paul - as well as all the others who had become part of the body of Christ on earth since Pentecost?


Surely, it is ok for Peter and Paul to have different ministries and pastorates, even though they are both apostles? Peter simply didn't have the background learning to interpret the Old Covenant to Gentiles, so that we\they could understand the New Covenant, and Paul was not called to the Jews. He was regularly getting beaten up by them. But Peter, who was really a fisherman and used to being out in the fresh air all day long, had to become an elder in a big city nowhere near a beach. It's called the cross!

While Paul, who was used to delicate living as a scholar and tentmaker, was torn out of a relatively sedentary profession into a series of long journeys and prison stays. It wasn't fair!

But while he was doing the Lord's will, he was getting more and more clarity on how God had made the gospel to work from a technical point of view. Really, his gift of explanation doesn't make his 'gospel' different from what the others were preaching. Unless we had Peter's thoughts on the same issues, we cannot make any comparason.... all we can do is note that Paul had made the gospel his own to a level of masterful skill in teaching and debate.

 2007/12/18 19:38
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3695
Ca.

 Re:

Hi Linn,

If you read Acts, 1through 8 you will see that Peter and all the apostles preached Christ, that is Jesus Christ of Nazareth the Man being killed by the men they were preaching to. You will not read anything to do with the in Christ position that Paul speaks of continually, at least 156 times that I have found so far.

At the end of chapter 8 you see that they were getting back to preaching the old testament and still making Christ the center of all that was said. The people were commingling the Old with the New and Paul was then persecuting the Church to the utmost. At the whole communication of Jesus Christ up to that time, it was signs and wonders performed by the Apostles and everyone that believed were making their whole life depend on each other and all they had, sharing all with each other and Ananias and Sepphira showing that it was not the heart of God they were after but just the benefits He provided.
That is why God chose Paul and gave him the Es sense of why Christ died. That is to become son's of God by the Christ that died becoming the life of the individual, not just believing that Jesus of Nazareth was the Christ.

2Cr 5:16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we [him] no more.

For we know Him after the Spirit. Read Pauls 1st letters, Thessalonians and you will see the difference in the preaching of Peter and Paul.
I agree that the Apostles learned from Paul what he was preaching and in The Holy Spirit giving revelation of what Paul was saying and it became entwined in their ministries. But even Peter at the end said that the things Paul said was hard to understand and the reason why. 2 Peter 3:15-18 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness. But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.

Verse 16. As also in all his epistles. Not only in those which he addressed to the churches in Asia Minor, but in his epistles generally. It is to be presumed that they, the Apostles, have had an acquaintance with some of the other epistles of Paul, as well as those sent to the churches in their immediate vicinity.
Speaking in them of these things. The things which Peter had dwelt upon in his two epistles. The great doctrines of the cross; of the depravity of man; of the Divine purposes; of the new birth; which Paul teaches always of the consummation of all things with the in Christ position and the New Birth and of the return of the Saviour to judge the world, and to receive His people to Himself; the duty of a serious, devout, and prayerful life, and of being prepared for the heavenly world wherein the Christ in us has already seated us in. These things are constantly dwelt upon by Paul, and to his authority in these respects Peter might appeal with the utmost confidence.

As you see the difference 30 years makes in our doctrine, as in Peter, the first 15 years he preached Jesus Christ the Son of God, after meeting Paul and 15 years later he speaks of the Incorruptable Seed, The Word, which is Jesus Christ Himself Born Again in the believer.

1 Peter 1:22-25 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently: Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away: But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.

See the difference?

In Christ: Phillip


_________________
Phillip

 2007/12/18 22:30Profile









 Re:

Quote:
At the end of chapter 8 you see that they were getting back to preaching the old testament and still making Christ the center of all that was said. The people were commingling the Old with the New and Paul was then persecuting the Church to the utmost



Phillip, what version or what bible are you reading?????

No such account here after Acts 8 that they went back to preaching the Old, but were astonished that mere faith in the Gospel brought salvation
to Cornelius and his house apart from any teaching of the Old Covenant.


[u][i][b][size=x-small]Acts 10[/size][/b][/i][/u]

1There was a certain man in Caesarea called Cornelius, a centurion of the band called the Italian band,

2A devout man, and one that feared God with all his house, which gave much alms to the people, and prayed to God alway.

3He saw in a vision evidently about the ninth hour of the day an angel of God coming in to him, and saying unto him, Cornelius.

4And when he looked on him, he was afraid, and said, What is it, Lord? And he said unto him, Thy prayers and thine alms are come up for a memorial before God.

5And now send men to Joppa, and call for one Simon, whose surname is Peter:

6He lodgeth with one Simon a tanner, whose house is by the sea side: he shall tell thee what thou oughtest to do.

7And when the angel which spake unto Cornelius was departed, he called two of his household servants, and a devout soldier of them that waited on him continually;

8And when he had declared all these things unto them, he sent them to Joppa.

9On the morrow, as they went on their journey, and drew nigh unto the city, Peter went up upon the housetop to pray about the sixth hour:

10And he became very hungry, and would have eaten: but while they made ready, he fell into a trance,

11And saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending upon him, as it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners, and let down to the earth:

12Wherein were all manner of fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air.

13And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat.

14But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean.

15And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.

16This was done thrice: and the vessel was received up again into heaven.

17Now while Peter doubted in himself what this vision which he had seen should mean, behold, the men which were sent from Cornelius had made enquiry for Simon's house, and stood before the gate,

18And called, and asked whether Simon, which was surnamed Peter, were lodged there.

19While Peter thought on the vision, the Spirit said unto him, Behold, three men seek thee.

20Arise therefore, and get thee down, and go with them, doubting nothing: for I have sent them.

21Then Peter went down to the men which were sent unto him from Cornelius; and said, Behold, I am he whom ye seek: what is the cause wherefore ye are come?

22And they said, Cornelius the centurion, a just man, and one that feareth God, and of good report among all the nation of the Jews, was warned from God by an holy angel to send for thee into his house, and to hear words of thee.

23Then called he them in, and lodged them. And on the morrow Peter went away with them, and certain brethren from Joppa accompanied him.

24And the morrow after they entered into Caesarea. And Cornelius waited for them, and he had called together his kinsmen and near friends.

25And as Peter was coming in, Cornelius met him, and fell down at his feet, and worshipped him.

26But Peter took him up, saying, Stand up; I myself also am a man.

27And as he talked with him, he went in, and found many that were come together.

28And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean.

29Therefore came I unto you without gainsaying, as soon as I was sent for: I ask therefore for what intent ye have sent for me?

30And Cornelius said, Four days ago I was fasting until this hour; and at the ninth hour I prayed in my house, and, behold, a man stood before me in bright clothing,

31And said, Cornelius, thy prayer is heard, and thine alms are had in remembrance in the sight of God.

32Send therefore to Joppa, and call hither Simon, whose surname is Peter; he is lodged in the house of one Simon a tanner by the sea side: who, when he cometh, shall speak unto thee.

33Immediately therefore I sent to thee; and thou hast well done that thou art come. Now therefore are we all here present before God, to hear all things that are commanded thee of God.

34Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:

35But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

36The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all:)

37That word, I say, ye know, which was published throughout all Judaea, and began from Galilee, after the baptism which John preached;

38How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.

39And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree:

40Him God raised up the third day, and shewed him openly;

41Not to all the people, but unto witnesses chosen before God, even to us, who did eat and drink with him after he rose from the dead.

42And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead.

43To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

44While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

[u][i][b]45And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.[/b][/i][/u]

46For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,

47Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

48And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.


Love in Christ
Katy-Did


 2007/12/20 10:27
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3695
Ca.

 Re:

Quote: This is what I said.

"At the end of chapter 8 you see that they were getting back to preaching the old testament and still making Christ the center of all that was."


I should have said that through the end of chapter 8.

They were commingling the Old with the New. Stephen trying to keep them in the Gospel of Peter, was stoned and killed for exactly what the church is trying to do today, that is if you do it our way and keep to our doctrine and do what we say, you will go to heaven with us.

"I should have said that through the end of chapter 8." The reason for this is what Stephen was saying to keep the people in the Gospel of Peter, that Jesus Christ was the Son of God and The Holy Spirit had come, keeping them from going back into the Mosaic Gospel and wanting to set them free, which finally took Paul after being confronted on the road by Jesus Christ Himself and Jesus telling Paul that he was going to be an instrument for Gods own purpose, which is revealed to Paul that Christ was in Him.

Stephen trying to keep the people in the Gospel of Peter.

Acts 6:1-15 And in those days, when the number of the disciples was multiplied, there arose a murmuring of the Grecians against the Hebrews, because their widows were neglected in the daily ministration. Then the twelve called the multitude of the disciples unto them, and said, It is not reason that we should leave the word of God, and serve tables. Wherefore, brethren, look ye out among you seven men of honest report, full of the Holy Ghost and wisdom, whom we may appoint over this business. But we will give ourselves continually to prayer, and to the ministry of the word. And the saying pleased the whole multitude: and they chose Stephen, a man full of faith and of the Holy Ghost, and Philip, and Prochorus, and Nicanor, and Timon, and Parmenas, and Nicolas a proselyte of Antioch: Whom they set before the apostles: and when they had prayed, they laid their hands on them. And the word of God increased; and the number of the disciples multiplied in Jerusalem greatly; and a great company of the priests were obedient to the faith. And Stephen, full of faith and power, did great wonders and miracles among the people. Then there arose certain of the synagogue, which is called the synagogue of the Libertines, and Cyrenians, and Alexandrians, and of them of Cilicia and of Asia, (((disputing with Stephen.))) And they were not able to resist the wisdom and the spirit by which he spake. Then they suborned men, which said, (((We have heard him speak blasphemous words against Moses,))) and against God. And they stirred up the people, and the elders, and the scribes, and came upon him, and caught him, and brought him to the council, And set up false witnesses, which said, This man ceaseth not to speak blasphemous words against this holy place, (((and the law:))) For we have heard him say, that this Jesus of Nazareth shall destroy this place, (((and shall change the customs which Moses delivered us.))) And all that sat in the council, looking stedfastly on him, saw his face as it had been the face of an angel.

Stephen trying to change the minds of the people he was confronting and change the customs of Moses and set them free from the Law.

Acts 7:51-60 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye. Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers: Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it. When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed on him with their teeth. But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God, And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God. Then they cried out with a loud voice, and stopped their ears, and ran upon him with one accord, And cast him out of the city, and stoned him: and the witnesses laid down their clothes at a young man's feet, whose name was Saul. And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit. And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep.



In Christ: Phillip


_________________
Phillip

 2007/12/21 23:02Profile









 Re:

Quote:
I should have said that through the end of chapter 8." The reason for this is what Stephen was saying to keep the people in the Gospel of Peter, that Jesus Christ was the Son of God and The Holy Spirit had come, keeping them from going back into the Mosaic Gospel and wanting to set them free, which finally took Paul after being confronted on the road by Jesus Christ Himself and Jesus telling Paul that he was going to be an instrument for Gods own purpose, which is revealed to Paul that Christ was in Him.



Phillip, Stephen was stoned by the very spirit that crucified Christ. These were not Christian Jews going back to Law, they weren't Christians at all. Paul, one of these Pharisees was himself of this same mind until the Lord got a hold of Him....Paul was not a believer or 1/2 believer in Jesus at all before his experience.

The Gospel was first preached to Jews, many received Christ and they were NOT the ones who stoned Stephen.

Because you hear Stephen preaching to Jews things only THEY would understand (a gentile wouldn't) you assume it was about mixing law and Grace.

Also Chapter 15 of Acts clarifies Peter's time with Cornelius, and that the council of Christian Jews absolutely did not say to mix old with new, but on the contrary.

Cornelius was not required to be circumcised....which was the big issue with Christian Jews who just couldn't let it go...however in Acts 15, they stated very clearly ( these now christian Jews) circumcision was not necessary, and that through teh Promise of the Holy Spirit Gentiles were heirs according to the Promise...that promise being The Holy Spirit!

Paul all his life was persecuted by unrepentant Jews, not gentiles. Just as Jesus was persecuted and killed by this self same spirit.

Love in Christ

Katy-Did
;-)

 2007/12/22 9:52









 Re:

Quote:
which finally took Paul after being confronted on the road by Jesus Christ Himself and Jesus telling Paul that he was going to be an instrument for Gods own purpose, which is revealed to Paul that Christ was in Him.



Phillip, Christ was not in Paul at the time of his ordeal on the road to Damascus. Paul received teh Holy Spirit a few days after that day.

We're not in Christ and Christ is not in us until that time.

You are maybe without realizing it teaching universalism, that Christ is in everyone. This is not so.

What happened to Paul is extraordinary and must never be used as a theory of election, that one has Christ in them already pre picked out.

Love in Christ
Katy-Did

;-)

 2007/12/22 10:02
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3695
Ca.

 Re:

Katy,

You must be born again to understand the things of the Kingdom. Jesus Christ said, "He was the one that would send the Holy Spirit from the Father. Jhn 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, [even] the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me: We must have a new spirit before we can understand the things the Holy Spirit will teach us in our soul, not spirit., The Holy Spirit is not Christ, He is the sealer of The Christ that is in us at conception of the Spirit of Christ that is born again in us. Eph 1:13 In whom ye also [trusted], after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that Holy Spirit of promise, and: 2Cr 1:22 Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts. Without the new birth of the Spirit of Christ first the Holy Spirit can only work from the outside of the person he is working on for salvation, then the Spirit of Christ is birthed in us and the Holy Spirit can then seal us into Christ and begin to renew our minds to the Mind of Christ which was given at the birth of Christ in the believer.
This is when Paul received the HOLY SPIRIT, After he had already known the Name of Jesus for He Himself had called Him Paul and answered Pauls question, "who art thou Lord". Do you think Paul believed? After He was knocked of his horse, yelled at from heaven, spoken to directly, blinded and sent to receive the Holy Spirit by the message of Ananias.

Acts 9:17-19 And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost. And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized. And when he had received meat, he was strengthened. Then was Saul certain days with the disciples which were at Damascus.

This is after He was a chosen vessel for the Lord. Acts 9:15 But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:

Paul was born again by the Spirit of Christ birthed in Him on the road. Then The Holy Spirit will be given. Jesus Christ is not the Holy Spirit and The Holy Spirit is not the Spirit of Jesus Christ.

Eph 1:17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:

Unless you are His the Holy Spirit cannot come and be in you instead of with you.

Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Jhn 14:17 [Even] the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Why? Jhn 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, [even] the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

Jhn 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

How could the Holy Spirit testify of Christ if He is not your spirit, already born again of Incorruptable Seed and able to see the things the Kingdom of God that will be taught by the Holy Spirit? If Christ did not depart The Comforter could not come and could not come if The Spirit of Christ had Quickened by birth the Spirit of Christ that is born again in you, which can not learn the things of the Kingdom and the Mind of Christ from the Holy Spirit.

1Cr 15:36 [Thou] fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:

Eph 2:1 And you [hath he quickened], who were dead in trespasses and sins;

Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)

Col 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

1Pe 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

How? Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

It is this faith that The Holy Spirit works with to renew our minds to the Mind of Christ which was given at the New Birth.

In Christ: Phillip


_________________
Phillip

 2007/12/22 19:59Profile
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3695
Ca.

 Re:

This might not be perfect contextual understanding of what the Word of God says, but this is what the Spirit of God has given me by the Red sunset of the west and the full moon of the east.

Genesis 1:14-18 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so. And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also. And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth, And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.

The Greater Light (Jesus Christ)sent into the Spirit of Man that the Lesser Light (The Holy Spirit) might separate the Darkness In our soul-mind and bring it into the Light of Jesus Christ.
Both sent from God the Father whom all three now live in the Birthed son's of God.

Jhn 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make Our abode with him.

John 1:6-14 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe. He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. He came unto his own, and his own received him not. But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

He Jesus Christ sent the Holy Spirit and would only speak of Jesus Christ not Himself.

Jhn 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, [that] shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

Jhn 9:21 But by what means he now seeth, we know not; or who hath opened his eyes, we know not: he is of age; ask him: he shall speak for himself.

Jhn 9:25 He answered and said, Whether he be a sinner [or no], I know not: one thing I know, that, whereas I was blind, now I see.

Praise God, now I see: Phillip


_________________
Phillip

 2007/12/22 20:23Profile









 Re: Holy Spirit


Hi Phillip, :-)

Sorry it's taken this long for me to get back here. I know you've added a correction about Acts 8. Can I change your mind about anything? Let me know... :-D

You said in your post to me

Quote:
they were getting back to preaching the old testament and still making Christ the center of all that was said. The people were commingling the Old with the New and Paul was then persecuting the Church to the utmost.

I'm sure you know this, but for those reading, I'll say it... that there was no New Testament until the gospel records and apostolic letters had been gathered into one place, long after the Church had been born. It doesn't seem long to us, so much further down the years, but all the apostles of that first wave of conversions - some of whom were martyred through Paul's persecutions - had died, before any formal attempt was made to gather what we have now as our New Testament.

Therefore, [i]all[/i] the scripture referred to in Acts and the gospels (and in the epistles) was from the Old Testament. That makes every word from Jesus Himself by revelation to an apostle, by whomever recorded, whether as a command for the Church, or a prophesy about it (as in tbe Book of the Revelation of Jesus Christ which John wrote down for us), particularly special. But, as He was the word of God, none of the revelation brought to us in the New Testament, can be at variance with the Old Testament.

Quote:
At the whole communication of Jesus Christ up to that time, it was signs and wonders performed by the Apostles and everyone that believed were making their whole life depend on each other and all they had, sharing all with each other

Many people today believe that this is the proper standard for any group of believers, and that our complacency with the world enables us to live apart from each other in safety - whereas those believers were outcasts because they had abandoned the law.

Quote:
and Ananias and Sepphira showing that it was not the heart of God they were after but just the benefits He provided.

But Ananias and Sapphira were out of line with the rest. That's why they died - for lying.

Quote:
That is why God chose Paul and gave him the Es sense of why Christ died. That is to become son's of God by the Christ that died becoming the life of the individual, not just believing that Jesus of Nazareth was the Christ.

John 20:17
Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and [i]to[/i] my God, and your God.

I believe John 8 examines whether the Jewish leaders understood the spiritual implications of rejecting Jesus' testimony, and they clung fiercely to their natural identity, which Jesus said proved they were of their father the devil. However, reading the few places (like the verse above) where He refers to His Father as 'our Father' or 'your Father', He seems to be saying something slightly different than that the men are already born again.

In the last couple of days, I've been reminded of Heb 11:6 - that he who comes to God must believe that he is [i]and[/i] that He is a rewarder of them that diligently seek Him. 'The word is nigh thee' (Moses said) and Paul added 'even in thy mouth'. I believe this is an effect of the Spirit brooding over our lives, long before He is resident within.

In another thread, I mentioned how from the moment we are born, we are surrounded by evidences of God's existence. It is intellectual perversity which denies these evidences in search of a pretended higher (but non-existent) standard of academic proof of God. Paul says in Rom 1 that those in denial gradually lose all intellectual respectability in regard to truth, and thus slowly [i]become fools[/i]. This is not a New Testament standard. Long before Christ we have the psalmist delaring 'The fool has said in his heart 'There is no God'. All that Paul does, is give the intellectual and spiritual framework for understanding idolatry, showing the only possible way to choose an idol over the living God, is to deny what can be known of Him in creation. Again, this is an Old Testament standard which still applies in the New Testament. This also is the basis of Jesus' answer to the question about tribute money: render to Caesar that which has his likeness engraved on it. Likewise, give [i](y)ourselves[/i] to God - the creature which was made in His image.

Quote:
As you see the difference 30 years makes in our doctrine, as in Peter, the first 15 years he preached Jesus Christ the Son of God, after meeting Paul and 15 years later he speaks of the Incorruptable Seed, The Word, which is Jesus Christ Himself Born Again in the believer.

You don't really have proof that Peter didn't understand new birth until after he'd met Paul. All of them when preaching to Jews, had the same scriptures on which to draw, first to show that Jesus was the Messiah, and then to explain the promise [i]of the Father[/i] (the Holy Spirit) since the day of Pentecost. Really, the impact of the baptism in the Spirit for us, is the death of the body of sin, 'our old man'. The reason Paul gets to expound this, is because he has to explain the significance of Jesus' death to the Gentiles [i]for themselves[/i]... but in so doing, he also finds himself explaining why it is unnecessary to keep the law, for Jews (and that Gentiles don't need to start 'keeping' the Old Covenant as well as entering the New (Covenant), either).

I believe Peter and Paul have a huge amount in common more than differneces, for many reasons, not least that they were both Jews. Their different ways of explaining the same truths both bring light to [u]our[/u] undertanding, and I'm sure the reason they seem to be saying slightly different things is a reflection of the recipients of their letters, rather than differences in their core doctrines.

I know Paul called it 'my gospel'. But I have a 'my gospel' also, which testifies to the truth of our God, where He is not yet understood.

Quote:
And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.

See the difference?

I see that they write in a different style from each other, drawing on different Old Testament history and prophecy, but when John ends as he does, with the comment that all the books in the world could not contain a full account of all the Jesus did, I believe we are all in the same boat of not knowing all that they knew, and also, of knowing things [i]other[/i] than they knew - from God. We have the Holy Spirit for ourselves - as did they - to help us make sense of God's word through [i]all[/i] His prophets and apostles - even the word through our contemporaries.


[i]Thank you, O my Father,
For giving us your Son
And leaving your Spirit
Till the work on earth is done.

Melody Green[/i]

 2007/12/22 23:14





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