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 Re:

Phillip,

Here is full proof that Paul did not receive a special Gospel to him alone. No right hand of fellowship would have been given Paul by the Pillars of the church to begin with.

Paul was not an original Apostle who spent time person to person with Jesus. I’m sure Jesus shared many things with the Apostles with His time with them, and also the days afterHe rose from the dead (40) that Paul was not privy to.
-
John was written between 85&90 AD. Matthew around 50AD, did not open up the Gospel according to the Mystery as John does.

Paul died ( beheaded)in 67AD in a Roman Prison, after writing 2nd Timothy.

Now Paul spends 14 years behind the backside of a mountain with the Lord teaching him….Paul then goes to the Pillars and they confirm that Paul too had been given this knowledge of Grace to bring to the Gentiles, as Peter was all ready prepped and ready to go…or had already gone to the Jews.

Peter, Preaching to Cornelius was a sign to Peter that yes in deed Gentiles are heirs according to the Promise…yet Peter is not called to preach to the Gentiles, Paul was.

If the message was so new and different, God would have chosen a Gentile to be the replacement Apostle. Yet God chose a most learned man of OT Scripture , giving us this mystery of Romans 9-11, not only but takes us back to the very beginning of Genesis through Romans 1&2. Paul lays this all out, even telling us our connection to Abraham, both Jew and Gentile.


Galatians 2
1Then fourteen years after I went up again to Jerusalem with Barnabas, and took Titus with me also.
2And I went up by revelation, and communicated unto them that gospel which I preach among the Gentiles, but privately to them which were of reputation, lest by any means I should run, or had run, in vain.
3But neither Titus, who was with me, being a Greek, was compelled to be circumcised:
4And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage:
5To whom we gave place by subjection, no, not for an hour; that the truth of the gospel might continue with you.
6But of these who seemed to be somewhat, (whatsoever they were, it maketh no matter to me: God accepteth no man's person:) for they who seemed to be somewhat in conference added nothing to me:
7But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;
8(For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles:)
9And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.
10Only they would that we should remember the poor; the same which I also was forward to do.


So, what did Paul know they didn’t? Would they not have questioned Paul saying, Gee, I never heard that before. Ho such comments were made.

When Paul says MY GOSPEL, please remember who he is talking to and what he is talking about. MY GOSPEL is not some new and different Gospel, but the Gospel of Grace that Gentiles are Heirs according to the Promise of the Covenants stated in Ephesians 2 and 3.

God does not deal with man apart from Covenants….He never has and never will. It is finished! It was finished the day Jesus rose from the dead. No New MY GOSPELS handed down that Peter was not aware.

Love in Christ
Katy-Did

 2007/12/16 11:50
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3694
Ca.

 Re:

1Ti 1:11 According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.

Eph 6:19 And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly, to make known the mystery of the gospel,

1Cr 9:17 For if I do this thing willingly, I have a reward: but if against my will, a dispensation [of the gospel] is committed unto me.

Before the Cross this Gospel could not have taken place, No Blood shed yet.

Colossians 1:13-14 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

What was done in Jerusalem, what the agreement was, that the Gospel would go to the Gentiles also.
It was not agreed upon that The Glory of the Gospel was Christ in them, which only Paul preached. Peter never preached Christ in the believer, only that they had received the Holy Spirit as they had at Pentecost, and that was to go to the Gentiles also. Peter only mentions the in Christ position in his final epistles, that is: 1 Peter 1:22-23 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently: Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

Here He is able to separate the soul from the spirit and showing that having been with Paul understood that Christ was in him, birthed of the Father and the Holy Spirit was the purifier of our soul-mind by His keeping the Word of Christ that the Holy Spirit would teach us all things that pertain to Christ Himself and not speak of Himself,(The Holy Spirit), but only speak of what He is given by Jesus Christ.

Peter never preached the final Gospel given to Paul, until he understood from Paul and the Revelation of the Holy Spirit, which is: Colossians 1:25-27 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God; Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

Peter only preached that they had crucified the Lord of Glory. Paul got the final Gospel which was to fulfill what Peter was preaching. That is "Christ in you the Hope of Glory", which no man knew except Paul who preached it always. Peter finally got the truth given to Paul by his association with Paul and by the Holy Spirit.

2 Peter 1:3-4 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue: Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

How are we partakers of the divine nature? Only by the rebirthing of the Christ that they new was the Son of God. Although this birthing happened at Pentecost, they did not know it until Paul gave them the mystery that Jesus Christ Himself had been birthed in them. Peter finally understood it form Paul and the revelation of the Holy Spirit which is the only way this finality to the Gospel can be accepted.

2 Peter 3:15-16 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

Paul not only wrote to Peter but to all that Peter was over in his ministry to the Jews.

This is not a new Gospel or Mystery if you will, but it has not been revealed to anyone but Paul and that is why God chose Paul. Acts 26:14-18 And when we were all fallen to the earth, I heard a voice speaking unto me, and saying in the Hebrew tongue, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks. And I said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest. But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee; Delivering thee from the people, and from the Gentiles, unto whom now I send thee, To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

"Sanctified by the Faith that is in ME: (Jesus Christ Himself)

This is Paul's testimony: The Final Gospel;
Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

The fulfillment of the Word of God:
Colossians 1:25-28 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God; Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:

This is the only way we become perfect and are able to see the things of the Kingdom of God.
"In Christ Jesus" being born again.
Jhn 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

This is truly the birthing: The Incorruptable Seed born again in us by the Father of all that the Son of God did at the Cross. Colossians 1:27-28 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:

The Final Gospel, Amen. The fulfillment of The Word of God by which we will be judged. Rom 2:16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

Edited for judgement.

In Christ: Phillip


_________________
Phillip

 2007/12/16 22:07Profile









 Re: Holy Spirit


Hi Katy,

It appears you have made some significant changes to your post to which I replied, but without indicating these changes, for future readers. It's ok that you've changed your mind about what you want to stand in your name (of that post) but usually we put some kind of 'edit' note in there when we do it.

You asked

Quote:
Dorcas, WHY would you make a statement like this, to undermind this whole conversation, feeling the need to talk over something I stated as very clear and extremely SIMPLE facts, [b]feeling YOU are more equipped to decide how and what should be said[/b]!!!!!


Dorcas, I was laying groundwork here....

I feel it's a slightly unfair accusation that I was [i]trying[/i] to undermine the [i]whole conversation[/i]. I've been in this thread for a while, and I know Phillip is extremely clear about the work of the Holy Spirit in bringing the true Christ into our beings.

Your statements, some of which you have now removed, were crying out for comment and perspective both as extrapolations from scripture, and interpretations of history.

Please feel free to reply to them more specifically. :-)

 2007/12/17 19:27
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3694
Ca.

 Re:

Quote:

""Paul was not an original Apostle who spent time person to person with Jesus. I’m sure Jesus shared many things with the Apostles with His time with them, and also the days afterHe rose from the dead (40) that Paul was not privy""

I disagree with you. Jesus said He had things to say but they would not understand them or bear them.

Jhn 16:12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.

These are the things that Jesus gave to Paul to say to His body the Church, they could not bear it until He was ascended and returned in the believer, and the Holy Spirit was given to be able to understand this truth of "Christ in you the Hope of Glory."

Colossians 1:25-29 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God; Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

Paul was persecuted in that he would fill up that which is behind of the affliction in Christ.

Colossians 1:24 Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church:

Paul had to fight then, just like he fights in the hearts of those that won't follow his as he follows Christ, and miss the center peace of Gods plan, that is God Himself putting another person in the believer and making the believer and birthed son of God and not a created being ruled by another created being, Satan. He puts a new life in the believer and the creature becomes completely new, All things are past away and All things are become new. That includes our spirit, which is Christ, our soul-mind which is the Holy Spirit and the body has been quickened to contain The God Head Himself, we are "IN CHRIST", and Christ is in us, we are filled with the Holy Spirit, and He quickens our mortal bodies to contain this complete new being, That is me walking on this earth as He is, When I get up in the morning it is He who wants to walk in me and use this new creature to bring forth the greater works than He did through me and in me and as me. That is how much we must take the birth of this Son of God to our understanding and Follow Paul as He follows Christ.

Phl 3:12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.

1Cr 11:1 Be ye followers of me, even as I also [am] of Christ.

Born Again by the Christ in me: Phillip


_________________
Phillip

 2007/12/18 5:43Profile









 Re:

Quote:
Your statements, some of which you have now removed, were crying out for comment and perspective both as extrapolations from scripture, and interpretations of history.



Dorcas, I have not REMOVED anything I have said here, and when I add I will say Added, or edited for comtent, or PS..Edited for content.

Please stop making false accusations.

If anything has ben removed, it was not removed by me, and I don't believe SI tampers with our thread statements.

Love in Christ
Katy-Did

 2007/12/18 6:38









 Re:

Phillip,

This verse can't be stated more clearly.

During those 14 years is when Paul was cought up to the 3rd heaven, not after.

Jesus Himself told us...to eat my flesh and drink my blood...I am Crucified with Christ..no longer I but christ

Jesus Himself said He came to set us free....to Live Christ in you

Jesus Himself said...You must be Born Again...also Christ in you.




[u][i][b]8(For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles:) [/b][/i][/u]


1Then fourteen years after I went up again to Jerusalem with Barnabas, and took Titus with me also.

2And I went up by revelation, and communicated unto them that gospel which I preach among the Gentiles, but privately to them which were of reputation, lest by any means I should run, or had run, in vain.

3But neither Titus, who was with me, being a Greek, was compelled to be circumcised:

4And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage:

5To whom we gave place by subjection, no, not for an hour; that the truth of the gospel might continue with you.

6But of these who seemed to be somewhat, (whatsoever they were, it maketh no matter to me: God accepteth no man's person:) for they who seemed to be somewhat in conference added nothing to me:

7But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;

8(For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles:)

9And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.

10Only they would that we should remember the poor; the same which I also was forward to do.

[u][i][b]8(For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles:) [/b][/i][/u]

Love in Christ
Katy-Did ;-)

 2007/12/18 7:07









 Re: Holy Spirit


Katy said

Quote:
Dorcas, I have not REMOVED anything I have said here, and when I add I will say Added, or edited for comtent, or PS..Edited for content.

Please stop making false accusations.

Katy I apologise unreservedly. I looked for several minutes, even using the 'find on this page' function - but using the wrong word at least once, I now find - as part of what I was looking for is right back on p18.... and I did look on p18 also, but obviously not hard enough or for long enough :-? . I am [i]really sorry[/i]. (Honesly, I was surprised I couldn't find what I was searching for... but I concluded [u]incorrectly[/u] what the cause might be.)

You're correct that no post is edited by a moderator without a comment being left to that effect, and often a PM out of courtesy to say so.

 2007/12/18 8:15









 Re: Holy Spirit


I believe these verses help to bring a greater scriptural perspective on what Phillip is saying - which is that the authority of the apostles who had been His disciples in the flesh, rests on their commissioning in the Spirit, dating from after Christ's resurrection perhaps, but in outworking, being totally dependent on receiving the promise of the Father - being endued with power from on high - on the day of Pentecost.

Acts 22
12 And one Ananias, a devout man according to the law, having a good report of all the Jews which dwelt [i]there[/i],
13 Came unto me, and stood, and said unto me, Brother Saul, receive thy sight. And the same hour I looked up upon him.
14 And he said, The God of our fathers hath chosen thee, that thou shouldest know his will, and see that Just One, and shouldest hear the voice of his mouth.
15 For thou shalt be his witness unto all men of what thou hast seen and heard.
16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
7 And it came to pass, that, when I was come again to Jerusalem, even while I prayed in the temple, I was in a trance;
18 [b]And saw him[/b] [Jesus] [b]saying unto me[/b], Make haste, and get thee quickly out of Jerusalem: for they will not receive thy testimony concerning me.
19 And I said, Lord, they know that I imprisoned and beat in every synagogue them that believed on thee:
20 And when the blood of thy martyr Stephen was shed, I also was standing by, and consenting unto his death, and kept the raiment of them that slew him.
21 And he said unto me, Depart: for I will send thee far hence unto the Gentiles.


2 Corinthians 5
11 [u]Knowing[/u] therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.
12 For we commend not ourselves again unto you, but give you occasion to glory on our behalf, that ye may have somewhat to [i]answer[/i] them which glory in appearance, and not in heart.
13 For whether we be beside ourselves, [i]it is[/i] to God: or whether we be sober, [i]it is[/i] for your cause.
14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:
15 And [i]that[/i] he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.
16 [b]Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we[/b] [i]him[/i] [/b]no more[/b].
17 Therefore if any man [i]be[/i] in Christ, [i]he is[/i] a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
And all things [i]are[/i] of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by [u]Jesus Christ, and hath given [b]to us[/b] the ministry of reconciliation[/u];
19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech [i]you[/i] [u]by us[/u]: we pray [i]you[/i] in Christ's stead,

 2007/12/18 8:31









 Re:

Phillip,


When Jesus prayed this prayer before going to the cross, was this the Mystery…?
[b]23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.[/b]

Is this not Christ in You, the Hope of Glory?

Or was Jesus praying for Israel only??? 23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

Now, those whom God had given Jesus were the Apostles, the 12 Disciples, and states He kept all but one that the scriptures may be fulfilled…. Namely Judas….
12While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

Then Jesus goes on to say out of these that they may what?
Answer:
20Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

John 17
1These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:
2As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
3And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
4I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
5And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
6I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.
7Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee.
8For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.
9I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.
10And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them.
11And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
12While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
13And now come I to thee; and these things I speak in the world, that they might have my joy fulfilled in themselves.
14I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
15I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.
16They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
17Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
18As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.
19And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.
20Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
21That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
22And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
23I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
24Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.
25O righteous Father, the world hath not known thee: but I have known thee, and these have known that thou hast sent me.
26And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them.

So, in fact, this Mystery was not something just told to Paul, some secret Gospel never heard before, or revealed or told to the other Apostles.

Even though this prayer does not go into the nitty gritty of all laid out, it is however the Gospel according to the Mystery.

You are suggesting that Paul preached another Gospel, that the other Apostles did not know, and too suggesting that all they wrote, James, Peter, John, Jude, have nothing to do with the Church, but another Gospel for Jews only. This makes no sense.

Paul was given the Gospel according to THIS Mystery Jesus prayed in John 17.


Now we know that in the 40 days after Jesus rose from the dead and spent time with His Apostles, no such discussion about the future restoration of the Kingdom to Israel was discussed. If it had, and that is what they were discussing then no such comment as this would have been made.

They were discussing the Mystery, Paul was not there, later learned by revelation of Jesus Christ Himself confirming his Apostleship to the other Apostles. Paul lays out to Gentiles this Mystery, and this is what we read from Paul, a perspective from that Perspective.

Acts 1
4And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.
5For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.
6When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
7And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.
Love in Christ
Katy-Did




 2007/12/18 11:15









 Re:

Quote:
I believe these verses help to bring a greater scriptural perspective on what Phillip is saying -



Dorcas, what Phillip is saying is:
Paul had a superior Gospel only given to him.

That it has nothing to do with any Covenants of Promise, but was supremely unique in all ways called "My Gospel".

This is what and where I am trying to show Phillip otherwise, and that all Paul taught to Gentiles , in Ephesians, Galatians, and Romans 11 just exactlty *where and how* Gentiles fit into these promises Paul teaches explicitly through the Covenants of Promise.


Love in Christ
Katy-Did



 2007/12/18 11:19





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