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 Re:

Quote:
In Christ by the fulfillment of God the Father, and the preaching of Paul, given direct to him by Jesus Christ Himself: Phillip



Of which Paul brings up many excellent scripture, rooted back in the OT, brings forward in this revelation given directly to Paul.

Quote:
Our roots are from before the beginning.



Yes, God's plan of Salvation certainly was before teh foundation of the World, and so was God's knowledge of Abraham as well before the foundation fo the world.

God has chosen Abraham, the Father of our faith, to be our example of true genuine faith among other things.

I do believe Calvinism overlooks these facts, preaching instead a secret society of the elect, taking many scriptures out of context to prove what is not there.

Because Calvinism ( some extreme teachings) teach that God just picked your name out of a hat, no need for repentance leading to faith in the finished work of Christ...or the evidence of that faith working through us.

The faith of Abraham is the faith of obedience as James also tries to tell us.

Because of a doctrine not believing that anyone can have this faith apart from being first elect and born again first to have it leads to this total severing of our roots, to the Promises made to Abraham...BY OATH.

Please reflect on the Paul shared with us AFTER he was swept away being enlightened about the Mystery, beginning first with Isaiah 51:2...GOD SPOKE through the Prophets, then again through His Son, Jesus Christ, through the Apostles on Pentecost, Paul also confirming now to the Gentiles:

Isaiah 51:2
Look unto Abraham your father, and unto Sarah that bare you: for I called him alone, and blessed him, and increased him.


Luke 1:55
As he spake to our fathers, to Abraham, and to his seed for ever.

Matthew 3:9
And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.


Luke 1:73
The oath which he sware to our father Abraham,

John 8:39
They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.

Acts 3:25
Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.

Romans 4:16
Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,

Galatians 3:7
Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.

Galatians 3:8
And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

Galatians 3:9
So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.

Galatians 3:14
That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

Galatians 3:16
Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

Galatians 3:18
For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.

Galatians 3:29
And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

James 2:23
And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

Love in Christ
Katy-Did;-)

PS Added for Content

[b][color=CC0000]25Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

26[u]But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith[/u]:

27To God only wise, be glory through Jesus Christ for ever. Amen.[/color][/b]

 2007/12/14 5:54









 Re: Holy Spirit

(p18) Phillip said

Quote:
A son must be of the Father of whom he is the heir

Yes.

Katy quoted
Quote:
Galatians 3:29
And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to THE promise.

I'm sorry to hear your seed jesus is not the seed of Abraham, and those promises given to Abraham that in him will all families of the earth be blessed through the Birth/Death and Resurrection of Jesus Christ do not belong to you.

However my Jesus is.

Hi Katy,

Ahead of the verse you quoted is Galatians 3:14, which concludes the sentence which began in v 13.

12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.
13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed [i]is[/i] every one that hangeth on a tree:
14 That [u]the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive [b]the promise[/b] of the Spirit through faith[/u].

So, Paul is saying that 'the blessing of Abraham' is [u]the promise of the Spirit through faith[/u], to the Gentiles. We all accept that by the time [i]the Gentiles[/i] began to receive this [b]promise[/b], the Jews had already received it.

Katy said
Quote:
anyone who puts their faith in THIS JESUS,will become a New Creation in Christ

Exactly. Jesus was the promised Seed of Abraham, but faith is spiritual. The incorruptible seed which [u]believers[/u] (those acting faith out) receive from [u]the Father[/u] - that is, Christ's real Father - is a spiritual seed. It is by this all believers are born again, whether Jewish or Gentile by natural ethnicity.

(Unlike Roman Catholics, we do not believe that Mary was a sinless woman. But somehow, she gave birth to a Man in whom was no sin and who did not sin.)

Until that time, descent from a patriarch was essential to be counted as an Israelite, but Jesus' mother was the natural descendant of David - not the man presumed to be His father - Joseph, who was a legal son of David by adoption. Interesting.

Phillip said
Quote:
It is truly not Abraham that lives in me, but the Christ, the Son of the Living God.

1 Peter 1:23
Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

Katy said
Quote:
Now whether you believe the Woman is Israel...which is my belief, or Mary( also Israel)right now is not the issue, but the issue is the seed.

Your statement that Eve is also Israel, can be true only in type at the very most, because Paul's thesis in Romans [u]depends completely[/u] on [b]the faith of natural uncircumcised Abram in God's word to him[/b], [i]before[/i] the existence of his natural grandson (who was eventually renamed 'Israel' by God), that he (Abram) would beget that [i]promised[/i] son in whom the promises of which you speak, would be fulfilled.

The woman with twelve stars on her head in Revelation may be a picture of Israel, but Eve is barely a shadow. As the the mother of the whole human race, the promise to her that her Seed would bruise Satan's head was made to the mother of all living, which God brought to pass through singling out one family through whom that Seed could be recognised - namely, Abraham's.

Katy said
Quote:
Our roots are right in the beginning, fallen man with Adam and Eve,

Indeed.
Quote:
immediately promised a redeemer Genesis 3:15.

Indeed.
Quote:
You are redeemed by the Risen Christ of Genesis 3:15 who came through the woman Israel.

This statement reduces the Incarnation of the Son to a mere formality, by which, while I understand the spiritual truth of the Lamb having been slain from before the foundation of the world, the gospel is done no service. The total strength of the gospel is that [u]until[/u] the revelation of the Messiah, His life on earth as a Man - by which He revealed so much to us about God's nature - His death and resurrection - there was [u]no possibility of the pouring out of the Holy Spirit[/u] by which you, Phillip, myself and countless others [i]since Pentecost[/i] have been born again.


I know you think I don't understand Romans 11, but that is a different discussion which I've chosen not to embrace in recent threads. But Paul's thesis at the start of [b]Romans 9[/b] is a cry for Jews to be born again of the incorruptible seed of the word of God - the Holy Spirit bringing the life of God which was in Jesus Christ His Son - in(to) their flesh.

I think this is what you believe already, so mainly, I'm trying to restate the truth in scripture for those who don't quite understand the very subtle distinction between Christ the Seed of Abraham (the natural Man, the Son of God Incarnate) and the Seed of Abraham [i][b]the spiritual man - the Son of God - through Whom by faith in Him, we receive the Holy Spirit[/i][/b] which has no connection whatever to being Jewish.

Matthew 1
16 And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.
17 So all the generations [u]from Abraham[/u] to David [i]are[/i] fourteen generations; and from David until the carrying away into Babylon [i]are[/i] fourteen generations; and from the carrying away into Babylon unto Christ [i]are[/i] fourteen generations.


I really hope you can see what I mean, because saying you believe Eve was Israel, (which would be at least two thousand years before 'Israel' the man was born), the natural mind has good reason to doubt your reasoning.

And yet my point is really that the logic of [i]Paul's[/i] arguments are both flawless [u]natural[/u] logic and flawless [i]spiritual[/i] logic, with no compromise to either. This is the gospel.

Also, I think this is what Phillip has been trying to communicate, which is a just and scriptural exposition in its own way.


EDIT: One last thought.

We know that the Son of God from the beginning, the Word, [i]was made Flesh[/i], given the name Jesus [He shall save His people from their sins] (and Emmanuel - God with us or, God is one of us), and titled 'the Christ' (the Messiah).

But when He had been the Lamb slain from before the foundation of the world, He had never been a Man. Once He ascended as the victorious conqueror of sin and death, there was a Man in the glory, seated at the right hand of God. That was a [u]first[/u] (notwithstanding Enoch and Elihah, [i]which is another conversation[/i]).

 2007/12/14 11:31









 Re:

Quote:
Also, I think this is what Phillip has been trying to communicate, which is a just and scriptural exposition in its own way.



Dorcas, If this is true, then Phillip can defend that position himself.

However, it is my understanding through out many many posts, that Phillip has stated quite clearly that the Mystery has nothing to do with any Covenants whatsoever, including the New Covenant stated in Hebrews 8 which is the one and only New Covenant, not another New New Covenant.


Katy Said:
Quote:
You are redeemed by the Risen Christ of Genesis 3:15 who came through the woman Israel




Dorcas Said:
Quote:


This statement reduces the Incarnation of the Son to a mere formality,




Dorcas, WHY would you make a statement like this, to undermind this whole conversation, feeling the need to talk over something I stated as very clear and extremely SIMPLE facts, feeling YOU are more equipped to decide how and what should be said!!!!!


Dorcas, I was laying groundwork here. Stating there are many Jesus floating around as we see today....as I stated before to Phillip, warning him to be careful not to cut himself off from teh Covenants of Promise. The Mormons have one (Jesus) that many Christians today don't have a problem with. A Jesus coming from the Star KOLOB, the brother of Satan, who somehow shed angel blood for our sin.....Hello!!!!!

This is the Only Jesus Christ. So please make sure your Jesus who rose from the dead has His roots here. Genesis 3:15.

I will state again without apology!!!

Love in Christ
Katy-Did


PS: Added for content

Quote:
Your statement that Eve is also Israel



Dorcas I have NEVER stated Eve is also Israel, never in my wildest imagination would I say that.

I did state however Eve is a type of Church in relation to Adam being a Type of Christ, Bone of His Bone and Flesh of His flesh.

You seem to be suggesting I said the Church is Israel. The Church, a New Creation is neither Israel or Gentile, but a New Creation in Christ Jesus. Types and Shadows are only Types, not the actual.

Please in the future don't misquote me, unless you quote date, time and thread.
Katy

 2007/12/14 16:57
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3695
Ca.

 Re:

Quote:

""
Yes, God's plan of Salvation certainly was before teh foundation of the World, and so was God's knowledge of Abraham as well before the foundation fo the world.

God has chosen Abraham, the Father of our faith, to be our example of true genuine faith among other things.

I do believe Calvinism overlooks these facts, preaching instead a secret society of the elect, taking many scriptures out of context to prove what is not there.

Because Calvinism ( some extreme teachings) teach that God just picked your name out of a hat, no need for repentance leading to faith in the finished work of Christ...or the evidence of that faith working through us.

The faith of Abraham is the faith of obedience as James also tries to tell us.

Because of a doctrine not believing that anyone can have this faith apart from being first elect and born again first to have it leads to this total severing of our roots, to the Promises made to Abraham...BY OATH.""




How did Calvin get in this?

Which Faith would you prefer, the reckoned righteousness of Abraham, or the Made Righteous by the Faith of Jesus Christ?

Rom 4:9 [Cometh] this blessedness then upon the circumcision [only], or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.

Or the righteousness of Jesus Christ, that is birthed in you? Made righteous.

1 Corinthians 1:29-31 That no flesh should glory in his presence. But of Him (God the Father) are ye in Christ Jesus, who (Jesus Christ) of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.

Our Glory is in Jesus Christ and no one else. Abraham's Faith which is reckoned and Abraham's righteousness does not have the capacity for salvation. Only the Faith of Jesus Christ will save to the utmost.

Galatians 2:16-17 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.

How are we not sinners? 1Jo 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for His seed (Jesus Christ) remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

In our Spirit which is Jesus Christ after becoming Born Again, we cannot sin because our Spirit is Christ Himself, the Incorruptable Seed of the Father.

Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

But if we sin in the Flesh, it is not sinning in the Spirit or Christ could not be our spirit, because Christ and Sin cannot exist in the same spirit of a person. But if a MAN sin, which is in his own flesh sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ The only Righteous One, and God the Father is Just and Faithful because of the Christ that is our spirit to forgive and cleanse our flesh from all sin.

1 John 1:7-10 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

The sin of the flesh is forgivable, the Sin of the Spirit is impossible because our Spirit is the Son of God and He cannot sin, Christ is Not the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit works in our soulish part, which is the mind and the soul of man, which learns to fall in Love with the Christ that is now the Spirit of the Man.
Satan out Christ in.

So the Faith of Christ and the Spirit of Christ is what accomplishes The Work before the foundation of the earth, that is: Ephesians 1:3-4 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

How are we holy and without blame? Living by the Faith of Jesus Christ. Galatians 2:19-21 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God. I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Who now lives in us? The Son of God. Who's Faith do we live by? The Faith of the Son of God.

This is what Paul calls the Mystery, "that is Christ in you the hope of Glory".

Colossians 1:24-29 Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church: Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God; Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

This is what fills up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church: This is our ministry, the ministry of reconciliation, The reconciliation of Christ to the believer and the Body of Christ, His Church.

Abraham cannot do this.

2Cr 5:18 And all things [are] of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

2Cr 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

Hbr 2:17 Wherefore in all things it behoved Him to be made like unto [His] brethren, that He might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things [pertaining] to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

Be reconciled to God By Jesus Christ who is our all in all.

In Christ: Phillip


_________________
Phillip

 2007/12/14 21:37Profile









 Re:

Quote:
Our Glory is in Jesus Christ and no one else. Abraham's Faith which is reckoned and Abraham's righteousness does not have the capacity for salvation. Only the Faith of Jesus Christ will save to the utmost.



Phillip, Your describing the faith of sanctification, as we live by the faith of Christ now all ready indwelling us, but one must first receive Him, to even have this faith to live by. Galatians 2:20 & 21 clarify this to be fact. Paul here is talking about our life after we are saved, not before.

One must first identify in the death and resurrection of Christ to yield, reckon and know these to be fact.

Paul tells us in Romans 16:24-27 for the OBEDIENCE of Faith.

What is this obedience? You said it....Colossians 1:24-27 Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church.

Do you hear what he is saying [u]really saying?[/u].

He's saying the same thing he said in Philippians 2....Keep this mind in you that was also in Christ Jesus...who became obedient unto death.

Again He says in Philippians 3...That I may KNOW Him, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable to His death that I may attain to the resurrection...not as though I have all ready attained..but I press on.

The Spirit of the Life of Christ is this Spirit in the Church today.....a Spirit working within us to become obedient unto death...death of self, that Christ may be all in all in our life.

This is the [u][i][b]Mystery[/b][/i][/u] ..the [u][i][b]Mystery[/b][/i][/u] of Godliness.

This is the [u][i][b]Mystery[/b][/i][/u] Paul was teaching.

This is the Truth of our obedience of Faith James was teaching. He uses works for obedience, that has confused many, but rather compliments Paul's teaching, if you read James's examples of works. Faith without works/obedience to God's voice is dead. However, James goes right to the heart of our life of Faith, that it will be tried and tested upon the foundational promises of God, and that no matter what, no matter what God asks of us, we trust and OBEY, even at point of death.


You want to believe Paul wrote Hebrews, I will entertain you there for a moment ( even though I disagree), However, if you are correct, Paul wrote one of the greatest chapters in the Bible on FAITH, that becomes obedient unto death of self interest….placing it on the things Hoped for and the evidence of things not seen…as they all did! Genuine FAITH!!!!


Love in Christ
Katy-Did ;-)

 2007/12/15 12:04
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3695
Ca.

 Re:

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

"And that not of yourselves"; even the act of faith through which salvation is bestowed, is not of yourselves. Thus not only the favor, but even the willingness to receive the favor, is the gift of God.

If we are saved by the Faith of Jesus Christ, then we are sanctified by the Faith of Jesus Christ, You cannot have one without the other.

For God has made Him to be our wisdom, righteousness, sanctification and redemption.

"That not of yourselves."

If this sanctification takes my faith to believe unto salvation and my works to keep salvation, then the scripture and Jesus Christ are wrong and He died for nothing.

Romans 6:6-11 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin. Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him: Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him. For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God. Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Did you die on the cross with Jesus Christ? If your answer is yes, then through Jesus Christ we are alive unto God, if the answer is not then your sin remains. We must see ourselves dead to sin and alive unto God, by the work of Christ at the Cross. Not my faith, not my sanctification, not my righteousness, not my wisdom, and most assuredly not my redemption, but is Christ that is all this unto me by His Faith that works all my capacity to be saved, to be redeemed, sanctified, and made righteous, and wise unto Grace of God in Christ Jesus.

In Christ: Phillip


_________________
Phillip

 2007/12/15 15:11Profile









 Re:

Quote:
"And that not of yourselves"; even the act of faith through which salvation is bestowed, is not of yourselves. Thus not only the favor, but even the willingness to receive the favor, is the gift of God.



Yes, Phillip, and through the foolishness of preaching, the gift of salvation is given to all who will believe...however not all will accept that gift.

PLEASE hear the exact words of Scripture:

[u][b][color=CC0000]Again, Jesus Christ is the GIFT, not faith. We are not saved by faith through grace , but by Grace through faith. Please know the difference.[/color][/b][/u]


But back to the original conversation you brought upof :

Paul's comment in Colossians 1:24-27..."for the Body's sake, which is the Church".

Paul was talking about the CHURCH, and is no way considering himself the Church or anything more then a member of the Body of Christ. His life to us an example of our life in Christ, and the manifestation of CHRIST IN YOU. Paul said, be ye followers of me the way I am of Christ.

What is the purpose of the church here on earth??

Answer:

John 17:23
I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.


There comes a time in your growth that you realize you are a Body of Believers, members of one another, making up the Body of Christ...His Church.

It's not longer about Me, Myself and I, but your hearts desire becomes.....
To Do THY WILL, Oh God, even unto death, as was the life of Jesus Christ...who came to do the will of the FAther, not His own!

Interestingly Paul tells us in Romans 12:1&2 to present our selves a living sacrifice, holy acceptable unto God which is our reasonable service...???(((((works????obedience to His will))))???
and be not conformed to this world , but be ye transformed by the remewing of our mind that ye may know the Will of God.


Quote:
If this sanctification takes my faith to believe unto salvation and my works to keep salvation, then the scripture and Jesus Christ are wrong and He died for nothing.



I see you still don't understand anything said here. My faith in Jesus Christ is my justification IMPUTED right there.

My sanctification is now the renewing of my mind to know and do the Will of God, the works that were finished from the foundation of the world, that I may walk in these....not my own.

Salvation does not end just knowing you are forgiven. We are saved and sanctified for a reason.


Quote:
Did you die on the cross with Jesus Christ? If your answer is yes, then through Jesus Christ we are alive unto God, if the answer is not then your sin remains.



Absolutely...but now that your are alive unto God what, Wasn't Paul alive unto God at his moment of salvation .....and it didn't end there....What about when he laid down his to follow Jesus Christ at all cost, walking in those works from the foundation of the world?

Thank you Paul for that obedience unto death. Thank you that you were a gift to us in hearing the Gospel.

Love in Christ
Katy-Did


;-)

 2007/12/15 17:26
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3695
Ca.

 Re:


Quote:

"""Again, Jesus Christ is the GIFT, not faith. We are not saved by faith through grace , but by Grace through faith. Please know the difference"""

And again:

Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

These scriptures are separating the Law and the Faith of Jesus Christ. This is the Faith that leads us to salvation, if the deeds of the Law can bring no person to Christ then no person can come to Christ by His own works of Faith either.
It must take the Faith of Christ to even understand the things of the Kingdom of God. For unless you are born again and have Christ birthed in us, we cannot even understand the things of God supplied by the Holy Spirit to our soulish part. The Spirit is Christ and we now live by the Faith of the Son of God, which without His Faith we live in our own flesh in our own faith reckoned as righteousness because we do what God says. If we don't do what God says we are not righteous. Jesus Christ has become righteousness in us and it is no longer I who live but Christ who lives in me that produces initial salvation by His Faith and continued salvation by His Faith, led by the Holy Spirit.

Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.


This is the righteousness of Jesus Christ Himself, that righteousness making us pleasing to the Father and the only righteousness we can lay hold of that is pleasing to the Father.

For our righteousness is as dirty rags to the Father.

If I am righteous because I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, then Christs righteousness is void and I am righteous in my own faith and works.

Rom 7:1 Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?

I don't live any more, for it is Christ who liveth in me and the life I now live, I live by the Faith of the Son of God, which was given His Faith was given to me and I believed by the Faith of the Son of God that He truly is the Son of the Living God, the only begotten of the Father and the first fruit of this new creation race of People, we are now of this first fruit. It is His Faith that brings forth fruit. Its His Faith that brings forth righteousness, It is God the Fathers work the gives birth of His Son in the believer.

When the time and the circumstances and situations were perfect in this dispensation of Grace, Paul was given these truths that are "hard to understand," written by Peter. The birthing is the thing that is hard to understand. Did your Father consult with you before you were conceived? The Same go for our Heavenly Father. All that the Incorruptable Seed of The Father when it was give and birthed in the believer. God did not ask us if we would give Him permission to birth His Son in us. No person is ever in his own works righteousness or faith able to birth himself.

Colossians 1:25-28 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God; Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:

Colossians 3:1-4 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God. Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth. For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God. When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.

1 Peter 1:20-23 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you, Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God. Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently: Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

You must leave your antagonism for Calvin out of this truth of the Scripture or you will never understand the birthing of Christ in you the Hope of Glory. Seek and you will find, The Holy Spirit revelation given to Paul. Gal 1:12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught [it], but by the revelation of Jesus Christ. It is revealed the same way to all son's and daughters that have hungry hearts and want more and more of the Christ that is in them.

2Cr 5:16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we [him] no more.

1Jo 5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, [even] in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

Know Him:

Philippians 3:9-10 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith: That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;

In Christ: Phillip


_________________
Phillip

 2007/12/15 21:17Profile
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3695
Ca.

 Re:

Quote:

Me:

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Did you die on the cross with Jesus Christ? If your answer is yes, then through Jesus Christ we are alive unto God, if the answer is not then your sin remains.
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Quote:

You:

"""Absolutely...but now that your are alive unto God what, Wasn't Paul alive unto God at his moment of salvation .....and it didn't end there....What about when he laid down his to follow Jesus Christ at all cost, walking in those works from the foundation of the world?

Thank you Paul for that obedience unto death. Thank you that you were a gift to us in hearing the Gospel."""

Amen.

Quote from Paul, "and nevertheless I live".

Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

We must see ourselves as dead as He was, when His dead Head fell on dead shoulders, that was me also, dead to this world and dead to sin and alive unto God by the birth of the resurrected Jesus Christ, in whom we are resurrected from the dead and unto our life in Christ unto the Father of us all and by His Son Jesus Christ who is our all in all.



In Christ: Phillip


_________________
Phillip

 2007/12/15 21:31Profile









 Re:

Phillip, There is one major issue that you have overlooked.....repentance!

Mark 1:15
and saying, “The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand. Repent, and believe in the gospel.”


Acts 19:4
Then Paul said, “John indeed baptized with a baptism of repentance, saying to the people that they should believe on Him who would come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.”
(Obviously people are capable of repentance apart from knowing they are to believe on Jesus Christ and receive the Holy Spirit)

Interesting thing about Mark 1:15. These are words coming directly out of the mouth of Jesus Christ.

This is the missing link here with what you are saying.

So are you saying Mark 1:15 is another Gospel, and yet Paul was given another ANOTHER Gospel?

Also,

Quote:
Quote from Paul, "and nevertheless I live".



Edited, Yes, the life Paul lived by the faith of Christ ( no longer I but Christ led him:

Paul was beheaded in a Roman Prison( he was a citizen of Rome), & Peter not being a Roman citizen was crucified(( those under Roman rule, but not citizens of Rome)) ( some say up side down as he refused to be crucified in the same way as Jesus (it was the Roman's way of execution)....

So their obedience was more then just dying with Christ to their old sin nature.

Christians and Missionaries around the world lay down their lives for the Gospel. Actually Paul tells us we are not only to belived in the Gospel but to suffer for the sake of the Gospel.

Antipas my martyr Rev 2:13, Stephen my martyr Acts 22:20....Martyr in Strongs means "witness",
and Jesus said you will be WITNESSES unto me.

Revelation 17:6 Revelation 6:11 just for starters.
Revelation 20:4

These are the true seed, Abraham's seed, and Heirs according to promise. And if ye be Christs ye are Abraham's seed and **heirs** according to the promise.

Like Isaac was, so are we, obedient unto death.

This is not a life forced on anyone, but a life we chose to live and follow. We follow, He leads.

Do you know in some of these third world countries, they hide the church, yet continue to witness...KNOWING they are going to be killed. Many are waiting in line to take over the Church if that pastor should be executed, and they believe it to be an honor.

Love in Christ
Katy-Did

PS added for Content...and the Life YOU live by the faith of Christ will manifest teh following:

Acts 9:16
For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake.


Philippians 1:29
For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

Galatians 6:12
As many as desire to make a fair shew in the flesh, they constrain you to be circumcised; only lest they should suffer persecution for the cross of Christ.

Acts 5:41
And they departed from the presence of the council, rejoicing that they were counted worthy to suffer shame for his name.


2 Thessalonians 1:
4So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure:
5Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:

1 Peter 4:16
Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf.

1 Peter 4:12-14
12Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you:
13But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy.
14If ye be reproached for the name of Christ, happy are ye; for the spirit of glory and of God resteth upon you: on their part he is evil spoken of, but on your part he is glorified.

1 Peter 3:14
But and if ye suffer for righteousness' sake, happy are ye: and be not afraid of their terror, neither be troubled;

1 Peter 2:22-24
22Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:

23Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously:


James 5:10
Take, my brethren, the prophets, who have spoken in the name of the Lord, for an example of suffering affliction, and of patience.

Hebrews 11:24-26
24By faith Moses, when he was come to years, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter;

25Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season;

26Esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt: for he had respect unto the recompence of the reward.

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

2 Timothy 3:12
Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.

 2007/12/16 8:33





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