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Christinyou
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Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3695
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 Re:

These disciples were filled with the Holy Spirit just as Ezekiel was…

Ezekiel 2:
2 Then the Spirit entered me when He spoke to me, and set me on my feet; and I heard Him who spoke to me.

There is no imagination involved, there is no private interpretation, there is only the word of God that is pure and that all Scripture supports itself….



Hebrews 1:1-2 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

John 14:16-17 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Why would Jesus Pray if they already had the Holy Spirit in them?

Why would He make the distinction of with you, and shall be in you?

Why in the old testament is the Holy Spirit upon them.

Why in the New testament Is Christ in you and the Holy Spirit in you the most prevent?

There is a difference from Pentecost forward.

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2007/12/1 19:09Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4792


 Re:

Sis wrote:


Quote:
When you introduce a phrase like 'seed of Satan' - even though it can be extrapolated from what God said to Eve



Sis, you have not seen what Scripture says...God speaks to each in their own judgment...

Gen. 3:14 So the LORD God said to the serpent:
“Because you have done this,
You are cursed more than all cattle,
And more than every beast of the field;
On your belly you shall go,
And you shall eat dust
All the days of your life.

In this section... Scripture identifies Satan and what would be his judgment...

God finishes His thought with

15 And I will put enmity
Between you and the woman,
And between your seed and her Seed;
He shall bruise your head,
And you shall bruise His heel.”


God has not yet spoken to Eve..He has only spoken to Satan...

So when Scripture says..."And between your seed" who is the father of this seed?

Do you see what Scripture says?

There is no new terminology...I am sorry if Scripture does not fit certain doctrines that we have been trained to accept without searching Scripture for the truth...

Only the love of the truth will free us from deception.

Your brother in Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2007/12/2 3:50Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4792


 Re:

Sister Katy wrote:


Quote:
We learn so much about the charactor of God and how he deals with men, even in the OT, God had mercy. DAvid said His Mercy is New every day. That's true for today as well.



How are we any different than the men who lived in the generations prior to Christ's incarnation? Are not all men fallen and unable to please God? The books of Job, Proverbs, and Romans all teach that men are unable to please God because their minds are carnal.

So when Scripture says that:
Gen. 5:21 Enoch lived sixty-five years, and begot Methuselah. 22 After he begot Methuselah, Enoch walked with God three hundred years, and had sons and daughters. 23 So all the days of Enoch were three hundred and sixty-five years. 24 And Enoch walked with God; and he was not, for God took him.

Heb. 11:5 By faith Enoch was taken away so that he did not see death, “and was not found, because God had taken him”; for before he was taken he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

Whether it is the book of Genesis or Hebrews we find that Enoch "walked with God" and "that he pleased God."

To be very clear, how does God enable men to "walk with Him"?

What does Scripture say on this matter?

Your brother in Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2007/12/2 4:01Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4792


 Re:

Brother Phillip asked"


Quote:
Why would Jesus Pray if they already had the Holy Spirit in them?



Because He had not yet been glorified...

You see Jesus for a time lowered Himself...
Phil. 2:5 Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, 7 but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. 8 And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross.

Do you remember another prayer of Jesus where He asks the Father to restore His glory?

John 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.



Quote:
Why in the old testament is the Holy Spirit upon them.



Brother, didn't you read in Scripture where Peter testifies that the prophesy of Joel had been witnessed by those 120 disciples on the day of Pentecost?

Again Scripture says...
Acts 2:14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, raised his voice and said to them, “Men of Judea and all who dwell in Jerusalem, let this be known to you, and heed my words. 15 For these are not drunk, as you suppose, since it is only the third hour of the day. 16 But this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel:
17 “And it shall come to pass in the last days, says God,
That I will pour out of My Spirit on all flesh;
Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,
Your young men shall see visions,
Your old men shall dream dreams.

In verse 17 we see that the word of God says...
"And it shall come to pass in the last days, says God, That I will pour out of My Spirit ((on)) all flesh:

God said it so I believe it....

In this Scripture is (((says)) that the Spirit of God (((entered)) Ezekiel....

Ezekiel 1:28 Like the appearance of a rainbow in a cloud on a rainy day, so was the appearance of the brightness all around it. This was the appearance of the likeness of the glory of the LORD.

So when I saw it, I fell on my face, and I heard a voice of One speaking. 1 And He said to me, “Son of man, stand on your feet, and I will speak to you.” 2 Then the Spirit entered me when He spoke to me, and set me on my feet; and I heard Him who spoke to me.


In this section of Scripture it ((says)) that the Spirit is "in" Joshua...

Num. 27:18 And the LORD said to Moses: “Take Joshua the son of Nun with you, a man in whom is the Spirit, and lay your hand on him;

In this section of Scripture it ((says)) that the Spirit is "in" the prophets...

Neh. 9:30 Yet for many years You had patience with them,
And testified against them by Your Spirit in Your prophets.
Yet they would not listen;
Therefore You gave them into the hand of the peoples of the lands.

And we know that Peter also confirms this precept...

1Pet. 1:11 searching what, or what manner of time, the Spirit of Christ who was in them was indicating when He testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ and the glories that would follow.


Likewise James writes:

James 4:5 Or do you think that the Scripture says in vain, “The Spirit who dwells in us yearns jealously”?

What Scripture is James pointing too? NT or OT

Brother, the word of God says it... why don't you believe it?

Your brother in Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2007/12/2 4:14Profile
rookie
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Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4792


 Re:

Sister Lyn wrote:


Quote:
Then, your use of 'child of God' to describe Abel, doesn't find resonance anywhere in the Old Testament, and in the New, Abel is described as 'righteous' - meaning he pleased God.



Scripture says this, not me....

1John 3:10 In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is he who does not love his brother. 11 For this is the message that you heard from the beginning, that we should love one another, 12 not as Cain who was of the wicked one and murdered his brother. And why did he murder him? Because his works were evil and his brother’s righteous.

In this section of Scripture, not me, it says that there are two families and two fathers...

Do you see in verse 10, "children of God" and "children of the devil"?

The OT is filled with this precept...here is a very clear example...

Deut. 8:5 You should know in your heart that as a man chastens his son, so the LORD your God chastens you.

As a man chastens as ((son)) so the Lord your God ((chastens you)).

We know from Scripture that the Lord chastens those whom are His sons...

Heb. 12:7 If you endure chastening, God deals with you as with sons; for what son is there whom a father does not chasten? 8 But if you are without chastening, of which all have become partakers, then you are illegitimate and not sons.

Heb. 12:10 For they indeed for a few days chastened us as seemed best to them, but He for our profit, that we may be partakers of His holiness. 11 Now no chastening seems to be joyful for the present, but painful; nevertheless, afterward it yields the peaceable fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it.

Rev. 3:19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten. Therefore be zealous and repent.

Be a Berean Sis...

Your brother in Christ
Jeff



_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2007/12/2 4:39Profile









 Re:

Quote:
Whether it is the book of Genesis or Hebrews we find that Enoch "walked with God" and "that he pleased God."



Jeff, that is a very good question.

You will surely find your answer to that question about OT Saints in the 11th chapter of Hebrews.

It answers exactly how these OT Saints Pleased God. By Faith.

When you look in the OT you will find not more then 2 times the word FAITH used, however the Author of Hebrews was trying to tell these NT Saints that it has been FAITH all along, and uses examples from Genesis all the way up to The time that the one they had faith in actually came...Jesus Christ.

The end of the Chapter of Hebrews 11 states that all these men died without receiving the promise.

Jeff, the Promise is/was the Promise of the Holy Spirit. Even though they died without the promise of the Holy Spirit that now indwells and breaks the power of sin.

From Abel to Jesus....before the Law and including the Law they made a sacrifice for sin. Even Abel, before Law, even Abraham, before the Law...made a sacrifice for sin.

When Abraham was asked by God to use Isaac as the sacrifice, God revealed to Abraham the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ ( also stated in Hebrews 11) ((Abraham saw it in a vision))...Isaac was a Type of Christ.

Anytime you see the words ( In a *figure*) it is a Type of Christ. God uses these quite often as he teaches us through His Word. After all, the Word of God is exactly that ..The Word of God.


When Jesus was talking to the Pharisees who rejected Him, Jesus said in John 8:

"Abraham rejoiced to see my day, he saw it and was glad".


Circumcision was a **sign** of the Covenant, on the 8th day, that we know is the Day Jesus Rose from the Dead. 8 means New Beginnings. 8 is the first day after the 7th. 8th day is called the Lords Day.....that wasn't fulfilled until the NT, until Jesus rose from the dead.

All things in the OT pointed directly to Jesus Christ, but not the actual itself. So also says the author of Hebrews.

Now the Actual has come, Jesus Christ, and no more sacrifice of animals are needed. They did this IN FAITH of the Redeemer promised in Genesis 3:15.

They were saved BY FAITH, not the Holy Spirit.

We too are saved BY FAITH now in the finished work of Christ, and we receive the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

Jeff, on the day Jesus Died on the cross, and a man next to him said, "I deserve to die"...well, that is acknowledging sin..He also recognized Jesus Christ as redeemer, because out of his mouth he said, "Remember me today when you come into your kingdom"....((He Just confessed Jesus Christ as Lord))Jesus said TODAY you will be with me in Paradise. Do you know where Paradise was???

Paradise was also called Abraham's bosom, where OT Saints who put their faith in Jesus Christ were. Read Luke.

He set the captives free(((in Abraham's Bosom)) and brought them with Him to Heaven itself. Hebrews 12 state these are the spirits of Just men made Perfect...their perfection In Christ came when Jesus finished the Work. They could not be made perfect without us.

Love in Christ
Katy-Did

 2007/12/2 9:01
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4792


 Re:

Sister Katy wrote:


Quote:
When you look in the OT you will find not more then 2 times the word FAITH used, however the Author of Hebrews was trying to tell these NT Saints that it has been FAITH all along, and uses examples from Genesis all the way up to The time that the one they had faith in actually came...Jesus Christ.



How does God create faith in the believer, according to the Scriptures?


Quote:
Now the Actual has come, Jesus Christ, and no more sacrifice of animals are needed. They did this IN FAITH of the Redeemer promised in Genesis 3:15.



Yes you are correct in this, but there is much more to the book of Hebrews and Christ's offering...
Heb. 7:26 For such a High Priest was fitting for us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and has become higher than the heavens; 27 who does not need daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifices, first for His own sins and then for the people’s, for this He did once for all when He offered up Himself. 28 For the law appoints as high priests men who have weakness, but the word of the oath, which came after the law, appoints the Son who has been perfected forever. 1 Now this is the main point of the things we are saying: We have such a High Priest, who is seated at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens, 2 a Minister of the sanctuary and of the true tabernacle which the Lord erected, and not man.

Heb. 8:3 For every high priest is appointed to offer both gifts and sacrifices. Therefore it is necessary that this One also have something to offer. 4 For if He were on earth, He would not be a priest, since there are priests who offer the gifts according to the law; 5 who serve the copy and shadow of the heavenly things, as Moses was divinely instructed when he was about to make the tabernacle. For He said, “See that you make all things according to the pattern shown you on the mountain.” 6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, inasmuch as He is also Mediator of a better covenant, which was established on better promises.

In this section of Scripture we find this question....

Heb. 8:3 For every high priest is appointed to offer both gifts and sacrifices. Therefore it is necessary that this One also have something to offer.

What is the answer, according to the Scripture that follows this section, in the book of Hebrews?

Thirdly, you mix the ressurection of the believers with the earthly work of God in the believers...this thread is on the Spirit of God and how He enables men to please Him before they die, not after....

Your brother in Christ
Jeff


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2007/12/2 11:24Profile









 Re:

Quote:
Thirdly, you mix the ressurection of the believers with the earthly work of God in the believers...this thread is on the Spirit of God and how He enables men to please Him before they die, not after....




Jeff, your answer is here, by a New and Living Way.

We are resurrected with Christ as we speak, and it is the resurrected life of Christ in us is that is pleasing to God.

WE are called into Romans 6-8. OT Saints were not.

However their faith in teh Redeemer was all tht was necessary to please God, and if you study Hebrews 11, their life reflected a life of Faith in what they looked forward to. Abraham looked for a City made without hands....Moses suffered with the People of God, counting the reproach of Christ more worthy then all the treasures of Egypt.

Each era, from Adam and Eve forward were responsible to live according to teh revealed knowledge given them...WE now have tht FULL knowledge and the Holy Spirit to live ours.


Hebrews 10
1For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.

2For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.

3But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.

4For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

5Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:

6In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.

7Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.

8Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;

9Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.

10By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

11And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:

12But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

13From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.

14For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

15Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,

16This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

17And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.

18Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.

19Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,

20By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;

21And having an high priest over the house of God;

22Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

23Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised;)

24And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:

25Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

26For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

27But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

28He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:

29Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

30For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.

31It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

32But call to remembrance the former days, in which, after ye were illuminated, ye endured a great fight of afflictions;

33Partly, whilst ye were made a gazingstock both by reproaches and afflictions; and partly, whilst ye became companions of them that were so used.

34For ye had compassion of me in my bonds, and took joyfully the spoiling of your goods, knowing in yourselves that ye have in heaven a better and an enduring substance.

35Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward.

36For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.

37For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry.

38Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.

39But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.


Love in Christ
Katy-Did

 2007/12/2 16:10









 Re: Holy Spirit


Hi Jeff,

In Genesis 3, you are right, there is no new terminology.

Quote:
So when Scripture says..."And between your seed" who is the father of this seed?

Satan is the father of that seed. But it is not divided between people, so that some people have the seed of Satan and some don't, and some people have the seed of the woman, and some don't. That's what is unsettling about this:

Quote:
Cain was the seed of Satan

The seed of Satan is in all of us, until we let it be crucified with Christ.

 2007/12/2 21:43
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4792


 Re:

Sister Katy wrote:


Quote:
However their faith in teh Redeemer was all tht was necessary to please God, and if you study Hebrews 11, their life reflected a life of Faith in what they looked forward to. Abraham looked for a City made without hands....Moses suffered with the People of God, counting the reproach of Christ more worthy then all the treasures of Egypt.

Each era, from Adam and Eve forward were responsible to live according to teh revealed knowledge given them...WE now have tht FULL knowledge and the Holy Spirit to live ours.




Gal. 3:5 Therefore He who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you, does He do it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?— 6 just as Abraham “believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” 7 Therefore know that only those who are of faith are sons of Abraham.

In this section of Scripture we find that no one is justified by the law...

The law given to Moses on Mount Sinai condemns all under sin.

But what does Scripture say about those who are righteous like Abraham?

Gal. 3:5 Therefore He who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you, does He do it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?— 6 just as Abraham “believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” 7 Therefore know that only those who are of faith are sons of Abraham.


What God has always required is that man listens and obeys Him. God spoke to Abraham and he believed Him. Whatever God says to a man, that is what God requires of that man.

Proverbs 1:

20 Wisdom calls aloud outside;
She raises her voice in the open squares.
21 She cries out in the chief concourses,
At the openings of the gates in the city
She speaks her words:
22 “How long, you simple ones, will you love simplicity?
For scorners delight in their scorning,
And fools hate knowledge.
23 Turn at my rebuke;
Surely I will pour out my spirit on you;
I will make my words known to you.

Here we see the promise of the Spirit given to all who turn at His rebuke. The purpose for which the Spirit of God is poured out on a man is to "make my words known to you."

This is the revelation that is perfect in all generations, and is able to save, His incorruptible word. You will find that as men continue to listen and obey God, the hopes of their hearts grow in unity to desire the same things that Christ desires...

Look at the testimony of all of the OT saints...what do you find that is common to all...look for the heart of Christ.

Your brother in Christ
Jeff





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Jeff Marshalek

 2007/12/3 2:48Profile





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