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Christinyou
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Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3695
Ca.

 Re:

Quote:


But how many according to Scripture hold the office, "priest of the Most High God"?

Jesus is not a priest of the most high, He is the most high priest Himself "after the order", like the priest of Salem, not of him through him or by him. But High Priest Himself. Only become High Priest after the last sacrifice, Christ on the Cross. We don't pay ties to Him, we pay ties to God the Father. We are to believe that God the Father has birthed in us His only begotten Son, He in us and us in Him.
He is our High Priest not the Father's High Priest, His Father is God also, He needs no High Priest, but provided one for you and I. Is Jesus not on His throne that is in us, as He provided the Temple for the Holy Spirit to dwell in us forever and His Father's abode also. "Christ in you the Hope of Glory".


In Christ: Phillip


_________________
Phillip

 2007/11/15 13:25Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4792


 Re:

Sister Katy asked:

Quote:
eff, Are you asking a question you don't know the answer to, or are you asking questions simply to use as a method of teaching your beliefs?



I ask questions in the hope that one would consider what Scripture actually teaches...

For example....

How did God speak to the prophets?

Another question...

Peter states in Acts 2...

4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

In the above Scripture it is clearly stated that the Holy Ghost filled the disciples...

Now listen again to what Peter declares....

16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; 17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

In the above Scripture Peter declares that the event that has just occured was prophesied by Joel...

Now, in this prophesy, Scripture states that "God, I will pour out of my Spirit [u][i][b]upon[/b][/i][/u] all flesh..."

Now I ask another question have you ever considered that being filled with the Spirit is the same thing as the events of the OT where the Spirit of God was poured out upon the individual...

And once again, in Scripture we find this...

1 Peter 1:11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.

The Scripture indicates that the Spirit of Christ was in the prophets of the OT....

Now I ask another question....

Do you believe Scripture or have you only learned from the writings of men?

Your brother in Christ
Jeff


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2007/11/16 4:20Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4792


 Re:

Sister Katie wrote:

Quote:
You're not suggesting King Hezekiah is Christ?



No Hezekiah was not Christ. But I believe that he was conformed into the image of Christ by the Holy Spirit.

There is a precept taught in Scripture...There are two spiritual forces that influence all men. We know that the Holy Spirit gives witness of God to all men. We also know that Satan sows his influence in all men. This is declared in Scripture....

Genesis 3:15

15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

In this covenant, God declares that there hatred would grow between Satan and the woman....

Now we know that Satan is a spiritual being...so therefore to keep the purity of Scripture intact...what is the nature of the woman...spirit or flesh?

Now the second part of this covenant we see this result...

"and between thy seed and her seed; "

Now who is the seed of Satan according to Scripture?

As a real life example of this precept...we find this in Isaiah 14:

4 That thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say, How hath the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased!
10 All they shall speak and say unto thee, Art thou also become weak as we? art thou become like unto us? 11 Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, and the noise of thy viols: the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee. 12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! 13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: 14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. 15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit. 16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms; 17 That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners? 18 All the kings of the nations, even all of them, lie in glory, every one in his own house. 19 But thou art cast out of thy grave like an abominable branch, and as the raiment of those that are slain, thrust through with a sword, that go down to the stones of the pit; as a carcase trodden under feet. 20 Thou shalt not be joined with them in burial, because thou hast destroyed thy land, and slain thy people: the seed of evildoers shall never be renowned. 21 Prepare slaughter for his children for the iniquity of their fathers; that they do not rise, nor possess the land, nor fill the face of the world with cities. 22 For I will rise up against them, saith the LORD of hosts, and cut off from Babylon the name, and remnant, and son, and nephew, saith the LORD. 23 I will also make it a possession for the bittern, and pools of water: and I will sweep it with the besom of destruction, saith the LORD of hosts. 24 The LORD of hosts hath sworn, saying, Surely as I have thought, so shall it come to pass; and as I have purposed, so shall it stand:

In the above Scripture we find that Isaiah is writing about Lucifer and the king of Babylon... their nature are the same...listen to Daniel...

22 And thou his son, O Belshazzar, hast not humbled thine heart, though thou knewest all this; 23 But hast lifted up thyself against the Lord of heaven; and they have brought the vessels of his house before thee, and thou, and thy lords, thy wives, and thy concubines, have drunk wine in them; and thou hast praised the gods of silver, and gold, of brass, iron, wood, and stone, which see not, nor hear, nor know: and the God in whose hand thy breath is, and whose are all thy ways, hast thou not glorified: 24 Then was the part of the hand sent from him; and this writing was written. 25 And this is the writing that was written, MENE, MENE, TEKEL, UPHARSIN. 26 This is the interpretation of the thing: MENE; God hath numbered thy kingdom, and finished it. 27 TEKEL; Thou art weighed in the balances, and art found wanting. 28 PERES; Thy kingdom is divided, and given to the Medes and Persians.


What was prophesised in Isaiah came true in Daniel...

So here we have a clear example of a man who takes on the nature of his father Lucifer...

This will also come to pass some time in the future where the anti christ will exault himself above the heavens and delcare like his father Lucifer the same words.

We are also given testimony of this same precept in the life of Cain...there are many examples of men who took on the nature of their father Lucifer.

Do you see this precept here in Scripture?

Enough for now...

Your brother In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2007/11/16 4:42Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4792


 Re:

Brother Phillip wrote:

Quote:
Only become High Priest after the last sacrifice, Christ on the Cross.



The sacrifice that He made at the end of times covers all time...

Was Christ part of the Trinity in the OT?


Your brother in Christ
Jeff


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2007/11/16 4:50Profile
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3695
Ca.

 Re:

Jeff wrote,

Quote:


""The sacrifice that He made at the end of times covers all time...

Then why did God command Israel to sacrifice animals on the Altar to show that the forgiveness of sin would come through Jesus Christ Crucified. God hated those sacrifices but it was His way of saying out of death comes life. There was only covering of sin in the old testament, there is the complete taking away of sin in the New Testament by Jesus Christ and Him Crucified.


Quote:
""Was Christ part of the Trinity in the OT?""




John 1:2-4 The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

Of Course He was part of the Trinity. He was not manifest to anyone in the Old Testament as He is manifest to us after His birth through Mary. They knew Him Not and received Him not.
No one knew His Name until Mary was given it. They could not even believe on His Name. They certainly did not know He was the birthed Son of God.

John 1:10-18 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. He came unto his own, and his own received him not. But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me. And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace. For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

Now God is manifest in the flesh through Jesus Christ. Moses could only give the Law, a picture of who Christ would be and now is, but even Moses could not become manifest as God and Die and reconcile the world to Himself and to the Father, to those elect that believe.

Why was the Law given if Jesus Christ was already their sacrifice, leading to eternal life, having offered a sacrifice pleasing to God for all time, once and never again needed to be offered and overwhelming and taking away the old priesthood of the old testament priests offering year by year.

If the Cross was in the old testament why did it have to be manifest to start the New Testament?

In Christ: Phillip






_________________
Phillip

 2007/11/16 14:01Profile









 Re: Holy Spirit


Dear Jeff,

I've got two (or three!) posts here, and probably both\all of them are a little less rambling than my usual, because I'm not feeling 100% fit but I do want to reply, because I so don't agree with you :-) . I'm so glad we've met, as I trust your big heart to hear me out (again). ;-) So... my apologies in advance, if I [i]sound[/i] brusque. I am trying (very hard) not to.


As it is impossible for us to turn the clock back, to [u]know[/u] for sure how the men of the Old Testament thought in themselves, we must rely on scripture's commentary on [u]every single point[/u] on which doctrine finally comes to rest. But one thing is certain - [i]their[/i] 'old man' had not been crucified with Christ - and therefore, they had not been delivered from the [u]power[/u] of sin.

In that it is clear sins could not be forgiven under the Old Covenant either,(Heb 10:4) how [i]could[/i] Hezekiah (or anyone) be conformed to [i]the image of Christ[/i], in the same spiritual reality as we [u]are[/u]?


No matter what the shadows and types were, they tell us about the pre-incarnate Word [i]only[/i], [u]im[/u]perfectly revealed through fallen lives. They themselves were not in a position to worship in spirit and truth [u]as we are[/u], presenting ourselves a living sacrifice that we may [u]know[/u].... thereby being conformed to the image of Christ [u][b]in reality[/u][/b] (and not merely by foreshadow).

Young's Literal Translation
Romans 12
1 I call upon you, therefore, brethren, through the compassions of God, to [u]present your bodies a sacrifice[/u]--living, sanctified, acceptable to God--[u]your intelligent service[/u];
2 and be not conformed to this age, but be [u]transformed by the renewing of your mind[/u], for your proving what [i]is[/i] the will of God--the good, and acceptable, and perfect.

Romans 8:29
because whom He did foreknow, He also did fore-appoint, [u]conformed to the image of His Son[/u], that he might be first-born among many brethren;

Philipp 3:10
to know him, and the power of his rising again, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being [u]conformed to his death[/u],

Philipp 3:21
who shall transform the body of our humiliation to its becoming [u]conformed to the body of his glory[/u], according to the working of his power, even to subject to himself the all things.

You said

Quote:
But I believe that he [king Hezekiah] was conformed into the image of Christ by the Holy Spirit.

I suppose it's obvious that to my mind, this was an impossibility, held in the light of Christ's work on the cross. While I understand completely that you are seeking to find God revealing Himself in every line of scripture, I believe you are going beyond what is possible (logically) in extrapolating Christianity backwards like this.

If you are [i]not[/i] saying there is no difference between an OT saint and a NT saint, (as Hebrews 11:39,40) clearly states, then this is [i]not[/i] clear from your choice of words.




 2007/11/16 17:13









 Re: Holy Spirit


You said (Jeff), in answer to Katy's question:

Quote:
I ask questions in the hope that one would consider what Scripture actually teaches...

In the above discussion, I believe you are going beyond this. It is necessary to see the great revelation of Christ Himself, the Word made Flesh, and understand it as a greater revelation of God than that had gone before. By pure logic, then, anyone living before Christ, could not have been like Him, and certainly no-one living before Pentecost could have been conformed to His image by the Holy Spirit, as it had not yet been poured out in the measure it was poured at Pentecost ... [i]no matter what measure had been poured in the Old Testament, the measure at Pentecost was vastly [b]greater[/b][/i].

Matthew 12:6
But I say unto you, That in this place is [u][i]one[/i] [b]greater[/b] than the temple[/u].

Matthew 12:41
The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, [u]a [b]greater[/b] than Jonas [i]is[/i] here[/u].

Matthew 12:42
The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: for she came from the uttermost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, [u]a [b]greater[/b] than Solomon [i]is[/i] here[/u].

Hebrews 9:11
But Christ being come an high priest of good things [u]to come[/u], by a [b]greater[/b] and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;

Hebrews 6:13
For when God made promise to Abraham, [b]because he could swear by no greater, he sware by himself[/b],

Hebrews 6:16
For men verily swear by the [b]greater[/b]: and an oath for confirmation [is] to them an end of all strife.

John 8:58
Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am

John 4
[The woman at the well asked Jesus] 12 [u]Art thou [b]greater[/b] than our father Jacob[/u], which gave us the well, and drank thereof himself, and his children, and his cattle? ... [Jesus said} 24 God [i]is[/i] a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship in spirit and in truth. 25 The woman saith unto him, [b]I know that Messias[/b] cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he [b]will tell us all things[/b]. 26 [u]Jesus saith unto her, [b]I[/b] that speak unto thee [b]am[/b][/u].



I haven't written the next post yet, but I'm about to start...

 2007/11/16 17:18









 Re: Holy Spirit


Jeff, you said:

Quote:
For example....

How did God speak to the prophets?

Another question...

Peter states in Acts 2...

4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

In the above Scripture it is clearly stated that the Holy Ghost filled the disciples...

Now listen again to what Peter declares....

16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; 17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

In the above Scripture Peter declares that the event that has just occured was prophesied by Joel...

Now, in this prophesy, Scripture states that "God, I will pour out of my Spirit [u][i][b]upon[/b][/i][/u] all flesh..."

I believe the differences you highlight, are simply explained, rather in the same way that those who had visions of airplanes, or men with flowing 'hair', had difficulty in knowing how to communicate the revelation their spirit had received. Therefore, as they had never known the [u]indwelling[/u] Holy Spirit, but rather only the [i]empowering[/i] (anointing for service) Holy Spirit, which gripped their mind and compelled them to live a certain way outwardly in demonstration of God's hold on them, they used word of outward significance, such as 'upon'.

But Peter, in his second epistle, picks up on the concept of the Holy Spirit empowering (only) their speech. Now, he'd had that happen to him too, and he uses the word 'in', because that's what happens when you [i]speak[/i] the word of God (see below, Deu 30), but by the very fact that he claims his personal experience as the prophecy of Joel's fulfilment, he [i][b][u]cannot[/i][/b][/u] be intending the meaning you are drawing, because he is [u]distinguishing[/u] his experience [i]from[/i] 21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake [as they were] moved by the Holy Ghost (2 Pet 1).

I believe this is a very important verse (underlined).

Deuteronomy 30
11 For this commandment which I command thee this day, it [is] not hidden from thee, neither [is] it far off.
12 It [i]is[/i] not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?
13 Neither [i]is[/i]] it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?
14 [u]But the word [i]is[/i] very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it[/u].


Luke 7:28
For I say unto you, Among those that are born of women [u]there is not a greater prophet than John the Baptist[/u]: [b]but he that is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he[/b].


God is opening to us the gradient of His revelation to mankind, and His intention to save Himself a people to whom He can be God, as prophesied previously many times.


2 Peter 1:16 - 20
For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty. For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount. We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.


Luke 20:13
[u]Then[/u] said the lord of the vineyard, What shall I do? I will send my beloved son [last]: it may be they will reverence [i]him[/i] when they see him.


Hebrews 1:1, 2
God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, hath in these [u]last[/u] days spoken unto us by [i]his[/i] Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;


I do realise you in no way intend to detract from Christ Himself, by hunting for the pre-incarnate Word in the Old Testament. Rather, the opposite. But until Messiah actually came, there was a limited understanding by a few prophets, of what His coming would mean. And there is a good deal of prophecy which seems only to be about Israel, even though God Himself knew (John 10) that He has other sheep and intends to have only one fold under the Good Shepherd.

All the allusions to 'gentiles' in prophecy, could not have prepared Israelites\Jews, for the effect of the cross. Even His disciples needed special textual exposition by the Lord Himself after His resurrection, to [i]begin[/i] to tune in, despite [i][b]all[/i][/b] that Jesus had told them before His death. Even they who knew Him best, were in trouble with Him for their unbelief, and He [i]had told them He would rise again![/i]

Matthew 16:21 (17:23, 20:19, 27:64)
From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day.


How could Hezekiah have had as great a revelation as Jesus' disciples?

 2007/11/16 18:18









 Re:

Quote:
Matthew 16:21 (17:23, 20:19, 27:64)




Quote:
How could Hezekiah have had as great a revelation as Jesus' disciples?



Great question!!!

Even when Jesus Did rise again, look at Thomas, who said, I won't believe until I see.

Jesus spent some time here after His resurrection walking with some 500 before He ascended. They still had questions they needed to ask. One was, Will you restore the Kingdom to Israel a this time. Jesus said, it is not for us to know but only the Father knows. Well we can know from that comment, Jesus didn't say,...oh no that's done away with, but rather says...it will have it's appointed time.

Within the Everlasting Covenant is, too, the promise of restoring the Kingdom to Israel.

How important it is we rightly divide the word of truth.

Abraham's seed...the seed of David. Is there a difference?

Well, many scriptures have layers of truth. The deeper layer of truth concerning the seed of David, and a sign to the House of David is that Jesus Christ will take the throne of David during the 1000 Year Kingdom Reign.

I s there a difference between the Gospel according to the Mystery spoken by Paul in Romans 16:25-27, and the EVERLASTING Gospel that will be preached during the tribulation period?

Those saved during the tribulation period will be real life flesh and blood who enter in....Jew and Gentile.

Those saved during the Church Age come under the Gospel according to the Mystery....Christ in you, the ONE New Man, no longer Jew or Gentile, no longer male or female.

Just as we have a glimpse into a dark mirror of what is ahead, so those in the OT had a glimpse into what was ahead of them.

ALL begins and ends with Jesus Christ from Genesis to Revelation.

Revelation is called the Revelation of Jesus Christ. In the revelation of Jesus Christ, you will see God revealing His plan of redemption, from beginning to end. Do we all understand it? No. Many deeper truths won't be revealed until the time necessary. We have come so far ahead in understanding more now then those back in the 14th or 15th Century.

As we see Truths of Prophecy come to pass, the pieces are falling into place to understand other things now falling into place.

I also believe that a million years in Heaven we will still be learning more and more of this unspeakable GLORY of God revealing Himself to us.

Love in Christ
Katy-Did


:-)

 2007/11/18 16:31









 Re:

Quote:

Katy-did wrote:
Quote:
Matthew 16:21 (17:23, 20:19, 27:64)



Quote:
How could Hezekiah have had as great a revelation as Jesus' disciples?

Great question!!!

Hi Katy

I had to comment on this because I actually understand almost all you were saying for once!

And agree with most of it!

That in itself blesses me! :-D

Especially the following (my emphasis on points that struck me particularly):

Quote:
Will you restore the Kingdom to Israel at this time. Jesus said, it is not for us to know but only the Father knows. Well we can know from that comment, [i][b]Jesus didn't say,...oh no that's done away with, but rather says... it will have it's appointed time

Within the Everlasting Covenant is, too, the promise of restoring the Kingdom to Israel.[/b][/i].



and

Quote:
Abraham's seed...the seed of David. Is there a difference?

Well, [i][b]]many scriptures have layers of truth[/b][/i]. The deeper layer of truth concerning the seed of David, and a sign to the House of David is that Jesus Christ will take the throne of David...



and

Quote:
[i][b]Just as we have a glimpse into a dark mirror of what is ahead, so [u]those in the OT had a glimpse into what was ahead of them[/u].

ALL begins and ends with Jesus Christ from Genesis to Revelation[/b][/i].

Revelation is called the Revelation of Jesus Christ. [i][b]In the revelation of Jesus Christ, you will see God revealing His plan of redemption, from beginning to end[/b][/i]. Do we all understand it? No. [i][b]Many deeper truths won't be revealed until the time necessary[/b][/i]. We have come so far ahead in understanding more now then those back in the 14th or 15th Century.

As we see Truths of Prophecy come to pass, the pieces are falling into place to understand other things now falling into place.

I also believe that a million years in Heaven we will still be learning more and more of this unspeakable GLORY of God revealing Himself to us.

AMEN!!!

However, I wasn't quite sure what you meant by:
Quote:
I s there a difference between the Gospel according to the Mystery spoken by Paul in Romans 16:25-27, and the EVERLASTING Gospel that will be preached during the tribulation period?

Those saved during the tribulation period will be real life flesh and blood who enter in....Jew and Gentile.

Those saved during the Church Age come under the Gospel according to the Mystery....Christ in you, the ONE New Man, no longer Jew or Gentile, no longer male or female.

I don't really follow what distinction you see here. Why are those saved during the tribnulation period different from those saved during the Church Age? Are the two periods of time necesserily distinct?

I suppose that depends on whather you are pre or post-trib? I think I'm post trib or mid trib, which is why maybe I don't get this bit! ;-)

in Him

Jeannette

 2007/11/18 17:16





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