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DHL
Member



Joined: 2007/10/25
Posts: 7


 Holy Spirit.

Did Israel, during Moses time, receive the Holy Spirit?

 2007/10/28 19:55Profile
pastorfrin
Member



Joined: 2006/1/19
Posts: 1406


 Re: Holy Spirit.

Quote:

DHL wrote:
Did Israel, during Moses time, receive the Holy Spirit?




DHL,

Hope this link helps with your question.

http://www.bible.org/print_page.php?page_id=2124

 2007/10/28 21:24Profile
DHL
Member



Joined: 2007/10/25
Posts: 7


 Re:

Thank you brother,

That was a very informative Link. God bless.


There is one verse from the link that stuck to my mind.

Isaiah 63:10-11 But they rebelled and grieved His Holy Spirit; So He turned Himself against them as an enemy, And He fought against them. 11 Then he remembered the days of old, Moses and his people, saying: "Where is He who brought them up out of the sea With the shepherd of His flock? Where is He who put His Holy Spirit within them.


When Isaiah said: But they rebelled.

I ask you, what was this rebellion about?

and are we today, at the risk of doing the very same thing?

God put His Holy Spirit in them, and yet they grieved it. and God fought against them.

this is a very scarry thought to me, having God fighting against me.

 2007/10/29 4:53Profile
pastorfrin
Member



Joined: 2006/1/19
Posts: 1406


 Re:

Hi DHL,
You are very welcome.

Quote:
I ask you, what was this rebellion about?



Unbelief,

Quote:
and are we today, at the risk of doing the very same thing?



Yes, if we look at anything other than the Word, and take our eyes off our example to follow, Jesus Christ.


Quote:
this is a very scarry thought to me, having God fighting against me.




Hebrews 10:31
It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.


Trust and obey, for there is know other way to be happy in Jesus, but to Trust and Obey.

In His Love
pastorfrin

 2007/10/30 4:52Profile









 Re: Holy Spirit


Greetings DHL and pastorfrin,

I was slightly surprised at the way Isaiah 63:11 has been translated with the implication that each Israelite had received the Holy Spirit as we can now since Pentecost.

Therefore, I looked in Youngs, for a more stilted but accurate form of words, and sure enough, it does read differently:

11 And He remembereth the days of old,
Moses--his people.
Where [i]is[/i] He who is bringing them up from the sea,
The shepherd of his flock?
Where [i]is[/i] He who is putting in its midst His Holy Spirit?


We see here, that the Holy Spirit was in the midst of the flock.


I don't believe that a born again believer need fear God's opposition, while exercising faith and obedience towards Him. God didn't ever give Israel a hard time without a reason, and, He was always slow to respond in an antagonistic way - but justified by His faith and righteousness.

 2007/11/2 6:09
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4792


 Re:

Stephen said this of the many generations preceding Pentecost...

Acts 7:51 “You stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears! You always resist the Holy Spirit; as your fathers did, so do you.

What does it mean for the individual to resist the Holy Spirit?

Why were their hearts not circumcised?

James speaks of the same...

James 3:

5 Or do you think that the Scripture says in vain, “The Spirit who dwells in us yearns jealously”?

James 4:6 But He gives more grace. Therefore He says:
“God resists the proud,
But gives grace to the humble.”

Here we see that James indicates that in the OT Scriptures, teach that the Spirit in us yearns jealously against our fleshly desires.

Likewise Peter declares of the OT prophets..

1Pet. 1:10 Of this salvation the prophets have inquired and searched carefully, who prophesied of the grace that would come to you, 11 searching what, or what manner of time, the Spirit of Christ who was in them was indicating when He testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ and the glories that would follow.

Then we have this in Proverbs...

Proverbs 1:

20 Wisdom calls aloud outside;
She raises her voice in the open squares.
21 She cries out in the chief concourses,
At the openings of the gates in the city
She speaks her words:
22 “How long, you simple ones, will you love simplicity?
For scorners delight in their scorning,
And fools hate knowledge.
23 Turn at my rebuke;
Surely I will pour out my spirit on you;
I will make my words known to you.

In verse 23 God promises to pour out His Spirit on them who repent. The outcome of this grace by God is to "make" His "words known to you."

This is the same outcome that was experienced when the Spirit of God was "poured out" on them. They proceeded to speak the words of God.

There are many examples of the mystery of God working in the OT saint to preserve them by grace. Just look at last weeks Revival Conference...all the preachers posted thus far taught NT life out of the OT Scriptures....

God Bless
Your brother in Christ
Jeff


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2007/11/2 7:17Profile









 Re:

Quote:

dorcas wrote:

Greetings DHL and pastorfrin,

I was slightly surprised at the way Isaiah 63:11 has been translated with the implication that each Israelite had received the Holy Spirit as we can now since Pentecost.

Therefore, I looked in Youngs, for a more stilted but accurate form of words, and sure enough, it does read differently:

11 And He remembereth the days of old,
Moses--his people.
Where [i]is[/i] He who is bringing them up from the sea,
The shepherd of his flock?
Where [i]is[/i] He who is putting in its midst His Holy Spirit?

We see here, that the Holy Spirit was in the midst of the flock.

I don't believe that a born again believer need fear God's opposition, while exercising faith and obedience towards Him. God didn't ever give Israel a hard time without a reason, and, He was always slow to respond in an antagonistic way - but justified by His faith and righteousness.

Hi Linn, and everyone.

Indeed, we should not be in fear of God coming against us, if we are His, and truly seeking to walk with and obey Him.

Maybe the main point in seeking to answer this question is that God works from the standpoint of [u][i]who He is[/i][/u], which doesn't change, though the way He expresses Himself towards mankind does change, and increases, (For example Hebrews 1:1f).

Human nature as a whole doesn't change either. God's people, OT or NT, are still rebellious and stiffnecked, in spite of a fuller measure of the Spirit these days to those who truly believe!

Yes, KJV "within them" obviously has to mean "among them", as it's speaking of the nation, not all of whom (or very few of whom) were willing to trust and obey God - to this day.

But I can't help but see strong parallels between the rebellion and idolatry of Israel then, and the rebellion and idolatry of the Church in general now.

And, as it was then, so it is now, that there are comparatively few who remain faithful.

And we have less excuse than they had in OT times, because of the fuller "availability" of the Spirit to us, since Jesus died and rose and poured Him out upon the Church. As, for example, in Jeremiah's looking forward to the New Covenant:

Jeremiah 31:
[color=990000] Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.[/color]

The difference I believe is more in the [i]scale[/i] than in the nature of the Spirit's presence among the people. He only came in fulness to a few in the OT.

Blessings

Jeannette

 2007/11/2 15:17









 Re:

Quote:

rookie wrote:
Stephen said this of the many generations preceding Pentecost...

Acts 7:51 “You stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears! You always resist the Holy Spirit; as your fathers did, so do you.

What does it mean for the individual to resist the Holy Spirit?

Why were their hearts not circumcised?

James speaks of the same...

James 3:

5 Or do you think that the Scripture says in vain, “The Spirit who dwells in us yearns jealously”?

James 4:6 But He gives more grace. Therefore He says:
“God resists the proud,
But gives grace to the humble.”

Here we see that James indicates that in the OT Scriptures, teach that the Spirit in us yearns jealously against our fleshly desires.

Likewise Peter declares of the OT prophets..

1Pet. 1:10 Of this salvation the prophets have inquired and searched carefully, who prophesied of the grace that would come to you, 11 searching what, or what manner of time, the Spirit of Christ who was in them was indicating when He testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ and the glories that would follow.

Then we have this in Proverbs...

Proverbs 1:

20 Wisdom calls aloud outside;
She raises her voice in the open squares.
21 She cries out in the chief concourses,
At the openings of the gates in the city
She speaks her words:
22 “How long, you simple ones, will you love simplicity?
For scorners delight in their scorning,
And fools hate knowledge.
23 Turn at my rebuke;
Surely I will pour out my spirit on you;
I will make my words known to you.

In verse 23 God promises to pour out His Spirit on them who repent. The outcome of this grace by God is to "make" His "words known to you."

This is the same outcome that was experienced when the Spirit of God was "poured out" on them. They proceeded to speak the words of God.

There are many examples of the mystery of God working in the OT saint to preserve them by grace. Just look at last weeks Revival Conference...all the preachers posted thus far taught NT life out of the OT Scriptures....

God Bless
Your brother in Christ
Jeff

Some great thoughts here, Jeff. And a very searchging question.
Quote:
What does it mean for the individual to resist the Holy Spirit?

Why were their hearts not circumcised?

Mmmm, very challenging!

I think we all have times when we resist the Holy Spirit, even though it isn't out and out rebellion if we are truly His. I've certainly been guilty of wriggling like crazy when the Spirit is wanting to challenge something in my life that I'm not willing to let go of!

Blessings


Jeannette

 2007/11/2 15:21









 Re: Holy Spirit


Jeff said

Quote:
all the preachers posted thus far taught NT life out of the OT Scriptures....

Well of course. But it wasn't 'life' as we know it... was it?

Luke 24
25 Then He said to them, "O foolish ones, and slow of heart to believe in all that the prophets have spoken!
26 "Ought not the Christ to have suffered these things and to enter into His glory?"
27 And beginning at Moses and all the Prophets, He expounded to them in all the Scriptures the things concerning [u]Himself[/u].


 2007/11/2 15:40









 Re:

Quote:

dorcas wrote:

Jeff said
Quote:
all the preachers posted thus far taught NT life out of the OT Scriptures....

Well of course. But it wasn't 'life' as we know it... was it?

Luke 24
25 Then He said to them, "O foolish ones, and slow of heart to believe in all that the prophets have spoken!
26 "Ought not the Christ to have suffered these things and to enter into His glory?"
27 And beginning at Moses and all the Prophets, He expounded to them in all the Scriptures the things concerning [u]Himself[/u].

The point of the above quote is that they hadn't, until then, understood [u][i]their own[/i][/u] Scriptures. Jesus simply [u][i]explained what was already there[/i][/u], if only they'd had eyes to see!

The OT prophets obviously [u][i]did[/i][/u] have eyes to see. Even though they couldn't have had full "mental understanding" of what their own prophecies meant, in spirit they certainly [i]knew[/i], because "the Spirit of Christ that was in them" testified to the Truth.

[i][color=330099]"But it wasn't 'life' as we know it... was it?"[/color][/i] doesn't make sense the light of Luke 24. How else can we understand the scriptures (OT or NT) unless the Lord Himself explains things to us, as He did to the two on Emmaus Road?

And because He isn't here bodily it has to be by the Spirit!


Blessings

Jeannette

 2007/11/2 17:14





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